darkSpyro

Yes, Series 2 Double Trouble was a Wave Two character. He's been out for some time, and even if he wasn't, he would have come out in the recent iOS Pack ala Legendary Stealth Elf now being the current edition of Series 2 Stealth Elf.

Tree rex is kinda sorta broken. My friend, whose never played skylanders or xbox, beat most of our skylanders before i brought out doible trouble, with tree rex lumbering laserer. He would charge up tje blast, and it would stay locked on the enemy till it exploded. Very affective. Maybe move him to low s? Maybe this is a xbox only addition?

Quote: EgoNaut

The majority has spoken! Does anyone else have any final objections to moving Crusher (both paths) down to A Tier?

Nope. I think he is definitely A tier, both paths.

Quote: Thumpterra12

Tree rex is kinda sorta broken. My friend, whose never played skylanders or xbox, beat most of our skylanders before i brought out doible trouble, with tree rex lumbering laserer. He would charge up tje blast, and it would stay locked on the enemy till it exploded. Very affective. Maybe move him to low s? Maybe this is a xbox only addition?

I can agree to this in a way. My Tree rex is on Treefolk charge, so I don't know much about the charge laser, but that spike fist slam is super spammable and strong, his laser is still insanely spammable yet only doing 9 damage but with good range speed and knockback. Maybe not S tier yet as I will need to do a bit more testing.

yes. with lasers, they do 12 dmg. also spammable, but if you are not careful, you will get the charged up blast.

Rock Grinder Crusher can definitely move to A.

Double Trouble S2 has been out for quite some time, yes.

I have yet to try the Lumbering Laser path for Tree Rex, but I've maxed out the other one. It's quite good, though he's definitely a character you have to learn how to use due to his low speed tempo. If it's as broken as some people say, I might have to give LL a test run. I'd say put his Charger path in A, but it's already there, so cool! His Charger path seems to be the archetypal way a Giant 'should' work. Big, heavy, slow, with strong hits, but a mix of charges, a decent ranged attack, and massive AoE's. I'd definitely put him down as an 'all purpose' Giant rather than ones that are forced to do a single style of combat.

I want to get L-Stealth Elf for testing really bad, but haven't seen her yet.

What about my pop fizz suggestion?

I'd like more information on actually how practical Pop Fizz / Best of the Beast is to actually use, rather than just who he can beat. How well does Pop Fizz actually fare in combat taking 2 seconds to tranform into a beast every time? How much does he actually use the beast form, instead of just throwing potions like normal? How useful are the beast form-related upgrades when the beast form is in use?

ill tell you in2 weeks.

Firstly, use the beast form right at the beginning. I personally use the beast form more often as I dont really find tge potion attack all that interesting. His upgrades are a real benefit. Best of the Beast Upgrade 1: More damage done by the beast form. Good because in arena and ring out pop fizz can ensure an easy victory with the right tactics. Best of the Beast Upgrade 2: Attacking boosts meter. A boost to Pop Fizz because if he can keep attacking the opponent he can stay in it for a long while, depending on preferred style. Best of the Beast Upgrade 3: 3 new attacks. The Stealth Elf style one isnt that useful but the leap attack can make quick getaways from opponents and the flamethrower attack is good for opponents who are about to get close and personal. In combat you usually start at the opposite side of the arena giving Pop Fizz time to transform, which is a benefit in PvP mode. I do hope he is moved up to B tier as he is not suitable for C tier nor A tier. He fits perfectly into B tier as his new upgrades strengthen him up quite a bit.

Pop Fizz / Mad Scientist does NOT belong in B Teir! He belongs in A Teir! He lobs his potions as fast as can be, his orange ones do 26, purple do 14 (but spawn little potions that shoot at enemies doing 14 damage), and his green ones do 22 (plus a constant ticking 14 damage puddle!) He easily beat crusher and Tree Rex! He for gosh sakes beat S2 Hex!

Quote: joerox123

Pop Fizz / Mad Scientist does NOT belong in B Teir! He belongs in A Teir! He lobs his potions as fast as can be, his orange ones do 26, purple do 14 (but spawn little potions that shoot at enemies doing 14 damage), and his green ones do 22 (plus a constant ticking 14 damage puddle!) He easily beat crusher and Tree Rex! He for gosh sakes beat S2 Hex!

His main problem is his speed. He can do some great damage, but he doesn't have anything to do if his opponent gets either too close, or stays far away and shoots him from a distance. He has many weak areas that most Skylanders can take advantage of. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in A (I cannot test him right now), but he has some notable disadvantages.

I was talking about Best of the Beast being in B tier, not Mad Scientist. I think Mad Scientist is fine where it is.

^ I know, but I wanted to talk about this.

Anyways (Britney), on Lockdown Islands, he can jump up on the ledge and hide behind the rock while throwing his potions over, just like wham shell spamming B (360)

That, and relatively speaking, you will do more overall damage (and have more utility) with melees like S2 Chop Chop, either build of S2 Slam Bam, S2 Bash, Terrafin... there are a lot of other melees out there who are superior to the beast form and don't even have to transform to be that way. Many of them even have ranged attacks that are better than Best of the Beast's potions. BotB isn't a BAD build, exactly, but relative to others of his kind, he leaves a lot to be desired. B-tier is fine, if not even perhaps a little more than he deserves. Keep in mind that there are some beefy melees in B, due mostly to the fact that melee in general is a less effective tactic.

As i've stated previously, so many people are recommending Skylanders for B and above, it is an indication that Many Bs should be C's and some As might be Bs. It is natural for folks to put the Skylanders they like high and the ones they don't like low. That doesn't mean they are as good or bad as they claim, they just want to see them with a position on this tier list that goes along with their opinion of the skylander as a whole.

I've chosen not to quote and call people out on their situation, but a few people have admitted in other threads that they don't PvP that often, or with anyone that competitive and then talk about how the landers they like should be high. Now compare that to Tashiji who advocates the bulk of Earth are powerhouses and Wind is less then adequate and his comments here are consistent on a PvP level. He's said he doesn't like Terrafin, yet isn't one of the one popping off saying he should be in B tier, which would be ridiculous.

I'm not saying we won't have differences in opinion, Im just insisting that you make comments of placement based on mass performance not personal preference or performance.

Pop Fizz is an interesting guy. His Beast path doesn't make it so much better as it makes it somewhat useful. It's just not useful enough with the transformation time and short duration in its base state, so the potion-chucking version is better for ranged attacks. But he has a limited range. The "pet" potions are a nice addition.

His Best of the Beast makes it useful, but he still suffers against long-range attackers, attackers with speed, or speedy long-range attackers (Hi Flameslinger!). His melee does fairly low damage per hit, but he attacks MUCH faster than most melee guys. The problem is he only has two attack forms to choose from--his basic strikes and the 'special' one from his potion. And those aren't too particularly great. The Flamethrower attack is nice for killing mobs of guys but not so much for PvP (the damage is good for a quick burst of 40, but the damage over time is less than his normal strikes). His extra melee attack is a waste. His "leap forward and strike" is, unfortunately, the best he's got here, and the ONLY thing he has as a charge attack.

Most ranged guys have either a combination of a speed move and solid damage or multiple forms of ranged attack to adapt the situation. Most melee guys have solid strikes, a move that boosts their speed (in the form of a run, a charge attack, or a move that slows the enemy), and a status effect. Pop-Fizz is like a bad ranged guy combined with a bad melee guy.

Sure, he CAN do decent damage right inside the area of his potions, but he's fairly limited in everything else. In this way, he's like Boomer, but minus a PBAoE. And his low Armor and HP don't help, he usually just can't stand up to dedicated melee or dedicated ranged. He can kill other average 'mixed' characters a decent amount of the time, but that's about it. It's only through judicious use of poison-puddle and minion potions that he can even place in B-Tier. If these are 'average' players, he belongs in C, but I'm happy with him in B personally.

I am quite fine with Best of the beast in C tier actually, his transformation delay has always pissed me off, but hes not bad overall.

^ that!

I agree. Not too good. No good dmg or range.

C Tier seems fair for him. I've been testing him in PVP and though he deals great damage he needs quite a bit of setup and he's slow. Provides mixed results against upper tier characters and mixed potential due to this.

Hey guys. I'd like some more participation in the air v life showdown. Just check out the thread and play out some matches if you can!!

Quote: Earth-Dragon

As i've stated previously, so many people are recommending Skylanders for B and above, it is an indication that Many Bs should be C's and some As might be Bs. It is natural for folks to put the Skylanders they like high and the ones they don't like low. That doesn't mean they are as good or bad as they claim, they just want to see them with a position on this tier list that goes along with their opinion of the skylander as a whole.

I've chosen not to quote and call people out on their situation, but a few people have admitted in other threads that they don't PvP that often, or with anyone that competitive and then talk about how the landers they like should be high. Now compare that to Tashiji who advocates the bulk of Earth are powerhouses and Wind is less then adequate and his comments here are consistent on a PvP level. He's said he doesn't like Terrafin, yet isn't one of the one popping off saying he should be in B tier, which would be ridiculous.

I'm not saying we won't have differences in opinion, Im just insisting that you make comments of placement based on mass performance not personal preference or performance.

^ This post is brilliant. Especially the top paragraph.

Thanks to everyone for that wave of information about Pop Fizz! I'd say we should keep Best of the Beast in B Tier for now. If a large enough proportion want him in C Tier then he could even get moved down, but he seems fine in B Tier for a while.

I'm veering on the side of moving Crusher down to A tier, but i'm still hesitant about it for some reason. If there are any other clarifications and opinions people can throw in then please do so. Otherwise, i'll wait a while and then move Crusher's paths down to A tier.

I'm also going to move Series 2 Double Trouble's paths to the same place as his series one variants. If anyone thinks either of these should be higher, then state your reasons and I'll consider moving him.

I could also do with some more clear-cut information about both paths of Flashwing. With the level of opinion polarisation i'm getting about her Super Shards path now, I'm seriously considering that I might have to put it in the list twice.

• Double Trouble S2 / Chaneller placed in S Tier.
  
• Dobule Trouble S2 / Conjurer placed in B Tier, for now.
  

yes, move s2 DTs paths to the s1. the splitting only helps against zook.

Pyromancer is bull**** in pvp and should be E tier(series 1) he sucks at range and fails against melee characters.

^ Actually no. I gave tested it and Medea sb has fallen.

you gotta test em. i like testing underrated skylanders to see if theyll beat double trouble.

From my testings he lost to all of the air characters, which is saying something cuz fire is strong on air.

How is S2 Flameslinger even being caught by any Air character while you test? Flameslinger has the luxury of being impossible to pin down, so it doesn't matter that he can't deal hundreds in seconds. His strength is that, while fighting him, he's still going to outdamage most characters 10-1 anyway because they won't be able to connect with any of their attacks. If he's losing all these fights, it's because he's being played like a juggernaut and not a keep-away tactician. The latter approach is why the character is considered powerful.

^ He didn't say it was S2.

Oh, so he didn't. You're right. Well, as the double dash comprises the bulk of the character's strength, I would agree that S1 and S2 should be at least three tiers apart (putting S1 Pyromancer in C), but even if we are talking S1, E is too low. Cooldown on the flame dash has been significantly reduced for all versions, and many of the same tactics are still a totally effective way to beat lower-tier characters even without the double dash.

^ That sounds reasonable to me.

Here's the thing about Crusher Rock Grinder. If people are arguing that he takes a bit of skill to use to a dominant level, then inherently that indicates he isn't broken, just good. You need an easy to use, clear cut strategy or spammable attack to be broken to where any 10 year old could easily win. Thus, even if some are having phenomenal success, that is an indication of their skills or lack of their opponents and not the brokenness of the character itself.

Rock Grinder should be moved to A as his clunky hammer swings are the bulk of his offense.

I thought Best of the Beast was C and not B, and he should be C. He CAN win against some of the upper tiers, but they usually get him more often then not, while he has the quick striking hits and just enough girth to dominate the lower tiers. C is perfect, as he is competitive but not anything extra special.

Super Shards, again, I'm not touching that mess. She's is to Giants as Gill was to SA. Too much of a varied level of success.

Well, if Pop Fizz shoots faster and more powerfully than Chill (Ice Lancer), and moves faster, shouldn't he be in the same Teir as her: A?

Does pop fizz have a move that can do 100+ damage? Does pop fizz have a way to absorb damage via a shield or barricade?

Interesting points you brings up, but it isn't always that simple.

^ Yes, if he does Green + Orange = 14+22+26+44+44 that eqauels 150 Damage.

Pop Fizz's Soul Gem does 100 flat to a medium area, but is difficult to charge. I imagine much less so, to the point of potential brokenness, with a turbo controller. But I would consider the ability to do that more of an exploit than a strength.

As for barricades, green and purple potions do present field hazards, but aren't nearly as effective as the ubiquitous cacti or bone shields, or Chill's ice walls for that matter.

The reason Chill is higher than Pop Fizz, though, is that she has the ability to defend herself and retreat, the Narwhal is easier to collect that 100+ from than the charged potion, and her shots have a far longer range AND wider area. It's not all damage and walking speed. Chill is just a more complete package, where some care was made to ensure she didn't have any specific vulnerability, regardless of whether or not the character is a powerhouse in terms of damage numbers. Pop Fizz is highly vulnerable to charging AND ranged attackers, while Chill is among the game's most defensively solid characters and, despite her low speed, actually can cover her own escape to some degree.

^ The Soul Gem does 80.

Why is demolition troll boomer in the d tier?!?!? I easily took out a tree rex with him. I think he should be at least B, probably A

Quote: sharktank

Why is demolition troll boomer in the d tier?!?!? I easily took out a tree rex with him. I think he should be at least B, probably A

You're either really good with him, or your opponent sucks.
On a side note, why is Clobber Troll in E tier?!?
It should at least be in D if not C.

Never tried clobber troll, but demolition troll is amazing in a variety of situations. Using the bombs and tossing dynamite all over, makes it almost impossible for a close range attacker to get close

The damage done by the dynamite was fantastic in SSA, but in Giants, it doesn't make that great of an impact. Besides, Boomer's low health and speed makes it so an opponent can easily half his health before he is able to do anything severe.

Which is why even TC Tree Rex should be able to get range (by charging) and shoot him with lasers. Boomer is like the prototype for Pop Fizz, and suffers similar limitations.

"Shake It!" requires quite a bit of time, game-wise, and is 'telegraphed' to your opponent by the button spamming (or the presence of a turbo controller).

Chill has a mix of offense and defense. More importantly, she can do more than one thing when presented with different foes. Pop Fizz is either 'run and try to claw it to death' or 'potion spam'.

Damage numbers don't decide everything. Look at Drill Sgt, his numbers are garbage but he strikes repeatedly fast and he can damn near do everything (close range brawl, hit and run, ranged snipe) and has speed to boot.

So for Crusher, which path is truly better? I've heard both do very high damage, which is certainly true for rock grinder, doing 50 a hit and 110 on primary combo. The disadvantage is that it takes time to swing the hammer, so your opponent could easily get some hits in. Crusher is generally quite slow too, but i think the rockslide might help out with that. Having not taken the rockslide path, I can't say for sure, but it seems like it could generally help crusher out in terms of maneuverability. Since Crusher is a bit of an easy target for being so big and slow, the bedrock armour could compensate for this by helping block the hits he can't dodge. Considering the boulders can still take damage for Crusher, this could be a worthwhile addition to his stats. As I said, maneuverability is essential for giants, so this path could make a big difference for crusher in many battles, allowing him to be offensive as well as slightly evasive at the same time.

Yes. Crushers too slow. Gets murdered every time.

Okay, so for some reason I thought Pop Fizz / Best of the Beast was already in B Tier, but it turns out he was in C Tier, and now i'm confused all over again about where the hell he should be.
A simple way to think about it that people can help me with is comparing Best of the Beast to Mad Scientist: If we consider that Mad Scientist is currently in B Tier, then does Best of the Beast perform in the same tier as Mad Scientist, or one below?

• Crusher / Rock Grinder moved to A Tier. Opinions about Rubble Master would still be apreciated.
  

Hey, I had a little theory here that just like his superior build, conjuror Double Trouble might be a giant killer. I have not tested this, but if someone could try it and report the results that would be nice. What I imagined was that similary to Drill sergant Double trouble could play keep away and spam rocket powered doubles, and if he has the time to he could beam them to make them giant. This is just a theory, and no this does not mean Im recommending he goes to S tier, hence Marksman flameslinger. So if someone could test this...

^ below. One of the few advantages to the Alts is can test both at the same time. A big reason is you are throwing potions around half the time when taking best of the beast, just less effectively. If you can also pop out of beast mode at the most unopertune moments like right as you are running from someone in comet mode. It isnt bad, it just doesn't get over the hump to be dominant.

Why is Camo/Melon Master in B?