darkSpyro

I have been wondering this for a while now. Seeing that both paths of Camo aree in the same tier I want to hear some answers as to which is truly better at pvp and why?

Put swarms barb wing path into Btier because it greatly increases his speed, its pretty ok and the speed makes him different to all the giants since they are slow but swrms upgrade path makes him faster, a huge benefit to a giant.

After my testing I can say Barberous avenger is definitely A or even S tier. His versatility gives him the win against almost everyone in A tier and below. You can frustrate your enemies by flying around them while your wings shred them! The melee characters will have a hard time getting to him as he flies away spamming stingers. Hes no lower than A tier. Probably S.

I recommend not moving Swarm until more testing is done. He only has speed in Flight making his only reliable source of damage the barb shots. Unfortunately the damage on them just isn't impressive. Not just for a giant but for any character. In fact Swarm's damage across the board is pretty lacking.

Agreed.

Yes but the flight is just more than just for speed its for dodgeability. All giants have the problem that they are big targets but flight helps that out for swarm. He can play keep away while he fires off the Butt stinger and his hand missiles.

Quote: Soopa Koopa

I recommend not moving Swarm until more testing is done. He only has speed in Flight making his only reliable source of damage the barb shots. Unfortunately the damage on them just isn't impressive. Not just for a giant but for any character. In fact Swarm's damage across the board is pretty lacking.

#sandhog

BTW Mrmorrises i agreed with you for his barb path.

I know. I think everyone can agree his barb path is better but I was talking to Soopa.

ok. My sis has swarm but is terrible at using him, even on barb path.

Quote: Nibelilt

Quote: Soopa Koopa

I recommend not moving Swarm until more testing is done. He only has speed in Flight making his only reliable source of damage the barb shots. Unfortunately the damage on them just isn't impressive. Not just for a giant but for any character. In fact Swarm's damage across the board is pretty lacking.

#sandhog

That's a COMPLETELY different ballgame.

Earth Swim is extremely fast, invincible and with the addition of his Wow Pow makes him a bit less predictable.

Swarm's flight path does none of that. The invincibility is a clear difference maker here. If Terrafin doesn't want to deal with you he doesn't have to. Swarm doesn't have that luxury. Terrafin can approach without taking a hit. Swarm has to weave in and out with that huge frame if he wants to do any major damage with his melee barbs, which still aren't that effective, because he's not going to be winning very many ranged battles against the characters in the A and S Tier right now.

I just have a nagging feeling we're making it too easy on the Giants because it's easy to just say they have a lot of health so they must be good.

BuzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzzz*frazzled brain*

I know we're not ordering them just yet but Ignitor absolutely mops the floor with Hex on Soul of the Flame. I don't see a situation in which Hex can possibly win this fight.

Hex is my friend's favorite character so I'm going to be playing it a lot. Now Ignitor is obviously a great character and deserves his placement so I'm going to end up trying out most of the cast because while Skull Buddy IS amazing you need to be REALLY close for it to fire and that's not really a safe place for Hex.

Swarm is definitely not S. He is only an A or B character. Although the speed of the flight is quite useful, the damage of the stingers is pretty lacking. I would say A, because his health and speed can create some effectiv strategy options.

^ Well my testings show he is S. I was able to beat most of the A tier.

Quote: Mrmorrises

^ Well my testings show he is S. I was able to beat most of the A tier.

what about the S tier? correct me if i'm wrong, but for a character to be in a certain tier, doesn't it have to be able to beat/pose a threat to a reasonable portion of that tier. Again, I might be wrong, but from reading through this thread, that's what i've gathered

sheesh. swarm does too low dmg to beat any s tier. 14 dmg is not enough.

Quote: Dragon Master58

Quote: Mrmorrises

^ Well my testings show he is S. I was able to beat most of the A tier.

what about the S tier? correct me if i'm wrong, but for a character to be in a certain tier, doesn't it have to be able to beat/pose a threat to a reasonable portion of that tier. Again, I might be wrong, but from reading through this thread, that's what i've gathered

You, my friend, have inferred correctly. That is exactly what it's like.

Quote: Dragon Master58

Quote: Mrmorrises

^ Well my testings show he is S. I was able to beat most of the A tier.

what about the S tier? correct me if i'm wrong, but for a character to be in a certain tier, doesn't it have to be able to beat/pose a threat to a reasonable portion of that tier. Again, I might be wrong, but from reading through this thread, that's what i've gathered

It's a combination of the two. If no one under you can stand a chance, you shouldn't be in a tier with them. so if Swarm is smashing A tier, yet getting creamed in S, we have a dilemma.

The first thing I would look at is there anyone below A that Swarm struggles against, if that is the case, he goes to A. If not, can the As muster up more wins against him or can he squeak out more wins against S? Whatever the answer is indicates where he should go.

Edit: I find it nearly impossible to believe that no one in A or below can fight him to a draw or better.

Flashwing on Super Spinner.
Damage that racks up fast while using the spin attack. Around 16, I think, but it goes really fast.
Same while using shards.
She is outstanding, but I wouldn't say broken, so I would say A tier is appropriate for her.
Plus, she can beat most of the characters in that tier.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Quote: Dragon Master58

Quote: Mrmorrises

^ Well my testings show he is S. I was able to beat most of the A tier.

what about the S tier? correct me if i'm wrong, but for a character to be in a certain tier, doesn't it have to be able to beat/pose a threat to a reasonable portion of that tier. Again, I might be wrong, but from reading through this thread, that's what i've gathered

It's a combination of the two. If no one under you can stand a chance, you shouldn't be in a tier with them. so if Swarm is smashing A tier, yet getting creamed in S, we have a dilemma.

The first thing I would look at is there anyone below A that Swarm struggles against, if that is the case, he goes to A. If not, can the As muster up more wins against him or can he squeak out more wins against S? Whatever the answer is indicates where he should go.

I would imagine Swarm would struggle with some fire characters in a tier, but Fire has an advantage against air so..yeah. Swarm would probably have an easy time with S tier characters like Drill Sergeant and both versions of Crusher, and I would imagine him vs. sotf Ignitor would be pretty arena dependant.

Zook's wow pow doesn't make enough of an impact to change his position. His series 2s should be in A and C with his counterparts.

Yeah I thought zooks wow pow looked pretty broken in his preview but apparently its not all that big.

It's just that it's something you can generally pull off with or without the Wow Pow. Zook's mortars have a pretty forgiving targeting system.

• Zook S2 / Floral Defender placed in A Tier.
  
• Zook S2 / Artilleryman placed in C Tier.
  

Finally got hot head. He's not on my team though (too long to explain, but we have teams at my place for general use unless we are PvP testing) so I will attempt to persuade Oil Baron.

Interesting fact, Prism break prismancer's beam is much longer than in ssa not sure if it will make a difference but just thought you might like to know.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Finally got hot head. He's not on my team though (too long to explain, but we have teams at my place for general use unless we are PvP testing) so I will attempt to persuade Oil Baron.

You're not the only one. Whenever we are doing a serious competitive competition, we use teams of 8 to battle.

Super Shards for D tier.

Trust me on this one (for once anyway), first path I took for her and it stinks for PvP. She can shoot crystals in walls that shoot their own ones and they heal Flashwing when she's nearby, but it's not very helpful. Even though they do tons of damage and can heal her, when they all pack on to you, the wall crystals can only shoot straight forward in one direction, they can't lock on to your opponent so you can easily walk right around them and go right up into Flashwing's face and clobber her. On this path, Flashwing is not very good in close range and if you show up into her face, she's pretty much doomed. If you close in on her she'll have to try retreating and move away from the Healing Crystals (though they do not heal her much), and she is kind of slow on this path (Her Shimmering Spin only lasts for about 3 seconds per use, so she is't too difficult to capture. The other path lets the spin last longer).

I'd say closer-ranged characters can easily overpower her, even the slowest ones like or (Best of the Beast version), even though she has a lot of armor and can heal herself a bit. Long-Ranged characters like or can also blast her to bits, the wall crystals are useless around other walls and they can't shoot through walls. She stands a better chance against mid-ranged characters like or , ones who can't fight too far or too close.

And sorry, but other than this, can't help you with any of your other placements. I'm not going to help you anymore. My work here is officially done. See ya.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Super Shards for D tier.

Trust me on this one (for once anyway), first path I took for her and it stinks for PvP. She can shoot crystals in walls that shoot their own ones and they heal Flashwing when she's nearby, but it's not very helpful. Even though they do tons of damage and can heal her, when they all pack on to you, the wall crystals can only shoot straight forward in one direction, they can't lock on to your opponent so you can easily walk right around them and go right up into Flashwing's face and clobber her. On this path, Flashwing is not very good in close range and if you show up into her face, she's pretty much doomed. If you close in on her she'll have to try retreating and move away from the Healing Crystals (though they do not heal her much), and she is kind of slow on this path (Her Shimmering Spin only lasts for about 3 seconds per use, so she is't too difficult to capture. The other path lets the spin last longer).

I'd say closer-ranged characters can easily overpower her, even the slowest ones like or (Best of the Beast version), even though she has a lot of armor and can heal herself a bit. Long-Ranged characters like or can also blast her to bits, the wall crystals are useless around other walls and they can't shoot through walls. She stands a better chance against mid-ranged characters like or , ones who can't fight too far or too close.

But other than this, can't help you with any of your other placements anymore. My work here is officially done. See ya.

Is their any specific reason for the last part?

^ Note to self: Never listen to Bean Sprout ever again, no matter what it is.

I can see why Flashwing would be D down Super Shards... That's actually what I expected. She seems like she relies on the environment too much. Disclaimer: I do not actually own Flashwing yet

Sorry, I don't have actual input lol

Yes it does. Combined with the power boost on it, and her greater ability to speed away and deal damage, it makes her a greater choice than Nether, enough to keep her in A.

Quote: SPARXisAWESOME

Why the hate?

What hate?

Quote: LightSpyro13

^ Note to self: Never listen to Bean Sprout ever again, no matter what it is.

Huh? I was asking a legitimate question! I want to know if their was a specific reason for you leaving this thread.

Quote: SPARXisAWESOME

Quote: LightSpyro13

^ Note to self: Never listen to Bean Sprout ever again, no matter what it is.

That hate.

It's not hate, just don't wanna be talking to him (no offense).

Huh? Was my question unreasonable?

What part of "Never listening to you again" does he not understand?

Oh, my bad.
I need to learn to not overestimate the maturity of some people.

That question? He thinks this about the question?

Quote: Bean Sprout

Huh? Was my question unreasonable?

NO! This has nothing to do with why I'm leaving! NOTHING!!

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Bean Sprout

Huh? Was my question unreasonable?

NO! This has nothing to do with why I'm leaving! NOTHING!!

Then why aren't you answering it, or giving a reasonable explanation on why you don't want to answer it?

Also, if this question isn't also too unreasonable, why are you leaving?

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Bean Sprout

Huh? Was my question unreasonable?

NO! This has nothing to do with why I'm leaving! NOTHING!!

Then why aren't you answering it, or giving a reasonable explanation on why you don't want to answer it?

Also, if this question isn't also too unreasonable, why are you leaving?

Because I want people to figure it out themselves, the answer is so obvious even somebody with got stabbed in the brain with a knife could know it.

I'm not going to tell to you why.

Guys....send personal messages to each other to resolve this.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Guys....send personal messages to each other to resolve this.

^
This.