darkSpyro

Quote: camoses

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: camoses

You did a bad job at not sounding rude, but Super spinner just doesn't pull off wins often in my testings, like against Elementalist voodood, Earthen avenger Dino rang, andSiren Griffin sonic boom, she is super fun overall but just can't quite compete with average tier.

Are you saying she was being rude because she disagreed with you?

No. Read what she said. I did give back up. I said she loses to a majority of characters.

Yea, but you weren't very specific.
And I still don't see how that could be interpreted as "rude."

Three is not a majority... Besides you not giving reasons WHY she is losing.

It would take a while to list everyone she loses to in average tier. Why is she losing? Well she just loses simple as that. Shes not bad but just doesn't make average tier.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: camoses

Quote: Bean Sprout

Are you saying she was being rude because she disagreed with you?

No. Read what she said. I did give back up. I said she loses to a majority of characters.

Yea, but you weren't very specific.
And I still don't see how that could be interpreted as "rude."

I just found it to sound cynical. That's how. I'm different. Deal with it.

Well, we would like you to further explain who he loses to and what happened in that battles that caused him to lose. We can't jsut go off of "She loses."

Quote: camoses

It would take a while to list everyone she loses to in average tier. Why is she losing? Well she just loses simple as that. Shes not bad but just doesn't make average tier.

No, why is she losing? TH loses because of his low health and low damage output. Why does Flashwing lose?

Well her projectile isn't that great. Her spin is okay but she completely relies on it and has rather middling HP.

Oops Sorry! Ok:

Chill / Ice Lancer
Reason: She can shoot it three fast long projectiles that do 25 Damage a hit! and they don't slow her down at all!

I'm not sue Chill would be S Tier for that. She's slower than most of it and has middling HP. Plus,a s we have already concluded, S is for broken rather than exceptional characters.
The fix finally came in today so I will probably test her in PVP soon.

Does Chill obliterate the vast majority of the list? Does she have an inherent brokeness that makes it almost impossible for other Skylanders to get wins against her a reasonable amount of the time?

Quote: joerox123

Oops Sorry! Ok:

Chill / Ice Lancer
Reason: She can shoot it three fast long projectiles that do 25 Damage a hit! and they don't slow her down at all!

That may be really good, but 25 damage isn't enough to make her S tier.

Quote: joerox123

Oops Sorry! Ok:

Chill / Ice Lancer
Reason: She can shoot it three fast long projectiles that do 25 Damage a hit! and they don't slow her down at all!

Thank you for trying to contribute, especially seing as we've heard so little about Chill up to this point!
However, the kind of information I need about Chill, to put her in any tier, is comparisons between her PvP performance and the PvP performance of other characters: What characters can she beat, and who does she lose against?
Also remember that this thread is only about PvP and not Story Mode.

Ah, Egonaut, you are so much nicer than I could ever be. I lack your charm.

Let's get this over with and take S2 Blademaster Ignitor out of the gutter, to his rightful place in the B tier. Reasons are as follows:

His sword has been fixed not to miss. He always hit hard, but now he does so reliably, making him comparable to any other melee with the exception of the true greats.

His Wow Pow (Blue Flame) works with all sword smashes, leaving a trail of blue fire for both charged and uncharged versions, including the one at the end of his Combo C. Remember that the blue flame ticks fast, and that Combo C is fast itself. He can have about two of these flame strips active on the field, and laying them down does moderate-to-high mid-range damage.

He's still no Soul of the Flame, but he's not worse than the other B-tier characters by any stretch of the imagination.

EDIT: S2 Glacier Yeti Slam Bam should be B-tier, too. Sure, the ice sculptures are still unwieldy and mostly useless, but he does have one thing going for him this time. He travels faster and farther when using his Wow Pow, and impact with the sled does roughly 50% more damage (55 vs 37) than Blizzard Brawler's for some reason. The quick, damaging charges combined with his still-decent melee ability are more than enough to compete in and win at the B level.

Huh. It is odd that the sled does more damage. I wonder what upgrade on that path caused that change to occur.

So do I. I can't figure out what move is doing it. I assume ice sculptures, but I'm not sure why they made that choice. Either way though, it does do more damage and travel faster/longer, and that means Glacier Yeti is actually capable of some things that Blizzard Brawler is not this time. He's still worse, but he's not useless to pick in Giants. It's a semi-legit alternative.

Yea. With that damage boost he looks like he can be a more capable choice.

Sounds good.

• Ignitor S2 / Blademaster moved to B Tier.
  
• Slam Bam S2 / Glacier Yeti moved to B Tier.
  

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: joerox123

Oops Sorry! Ok:

Chill / Ice Lancer
Reason: She can shoot it three fast long projectiles that do 25 Damage a hit! and they don't slow her down at all!

That may be really good, but 25 damage isn't enough to make her S tier.

I don't think she's S either due to her speed and HP, but her ice blocks and shield down the Lancer path can still inhibit anyone wanting to get up close. Probably will test her in PvP soon as well as Flashwing.

Speaking of Slam Bam, I would move S1 Blizzard Brawler down to B from A. In truth, the sled is a big reason why any version of Blizzard Brawler is in A-tier, and without it, he isn't really more powerful than the reinvigorated S2 Glacier Yeti. I firmly believe they should be in the same tier.

I second that. BB doesn't have a lot going for him, and with the edition of the new characters and the S2, he isn't going to be as high as he used to be.

Also, I've done enough testing, and I am ready to make the call and finally place one of Sprocket's paths. Operator (wrench and mines) is an A-tier character, and as good at the same general strategy as Zook, if not perhaps a little better. Here are my reasons for why Operator deserves a high placement:

The turrets. Fortunately for Operator Sprocket, the best turret upgrade (the ability to deploy two) is available before picking paths. Sprocket will want two of these on the field at all times. Fortunately, once the animation for deploying the turret has started, you can't interrupt it from being finished even if you hit Sprocket. These are annoying, rapid-fire, mid-range field hazards that make enough of an impact for the opponent to actually need to go after and destroy them, sparing Sprocket both attention and damage to get set up again with more turrets. Just ignoring them and charging her leaves you open to two steady streams of damage that you don't even need to be close to, with full 360 degree rotation.

The mines. These are similar to cacti for Zook, but with the caveat that you can fling them at your opponent by striking with the wrench. There are two ways to deploy the mines; throwing three straight ahead, and five (in a circle around you) with wrench Combo C's final attack. They do fair damage, make the field almost impossible to navigate when played right, and shoot both far and fast when launched.

The wrench. When stripped of cacti or cornered, Zook didn't have much of a system of defense besides to lay down more cacti, which, at that point, may be futile. Sprocket, on the other hand, does medium-high melee damage up close, not to mention Combo C's mine spread. At close range, she is far more capable of defending herself than Zook.

She is probably not an S-Rank character, but it should be plain to see for anyone who cares to that there's no way she's worse than Zook at a field defense style of play. Based on that justification, the two should share the same tier.

Although I do not have Sprocket, I have made theoretical predictions from what Nibelilt has told me, and that looks accurate. She shouldn't really be S tier, as she needs a little bit of skill to set up turrets and mines efficiently, but it looks like the damage output/ manipulation of the field should have a tremendous impact.

• Slam Bam / Blizzard Brawler (series one) moved to B Tier.
  
• Sprocket / Operator placed in A Tier.
  

Operator seems A from my Story testing, yup. I am gonna get the PVP Quest out of the way as soon as I can, so I will probably test her in PVP this week. And there is no way she is S Tier so there won't be a need to move her up soon, she will likely be comfortably at home to sit in A.
Her wrench is a great melee attack. It does 27 damage for one hit, and the reach is comparable to a fully upgraded Vampiric Warrior. All three combos have some sort of use(and I also discovered today that Power Surge CAN HIT ENEMIES ABOVE YOU!).
Tash covered the Turret perfectly. It will chip off your foe's HP very quickly if they don't steel with it, in which case Sprocket has the time to set up even more around her, or hunt them down. And if you're in a pinch and you have to hit a far off opponent, you can jump into one and use the Tank(something people tend to ignore, and fun fact, just going over enemies with it deals damage as well).
And that isn't even mentioning all the Mines she can throw around to manipulate where her opponent is heading. And Landmine Golf, an extra long ranged option.
I already did a rant of Sprocket you've probably all seen in my Signature, but judging off how she plays in Story she seems to be exceptional as a PVP threat... Which is generally agreed as the benchmark now, I think.
I know she is there now, I just think I should solidify why I agree with her being ranked there as I know we lack input on most new characters.

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: joerox123

Oops Sorry! Ok:

Chill / Ice Lancer
Reason: She can shoot it three fast long projectiles that do 25 Damage a hit! and they don't slow her down at all!

Thank you for trying to contribute, especially seing as we've heard so little about Chill up to this point!
However, the kind of information I need about Chill, to put her in any tier, is comparisons between her PvP performance and the PvP performance of other characters: What characters can she beat, and who does she lose against?
Also remember that this thread is only about PvP and not Story Mode.

Okay, how is A-Teir?

I tested her in PvP and she beat:

Crusher / Hammer Path: W: 3 L: 2
Tree Rex / Treefolk Charger: W: 4 L: 1
Sprocket / Operator: W: 1 L: 4
L-J.V / Bird Blaster: W: 5 L: 0
L-S.B / Blizzard Brawler: W: 3 L: 2
L-Ignitor / Blademaster (My personal Fav. Path for him): W: 5 L: 1 (Didan extra match to see if my Iggy could win once)


Those are the characters I have, sorry, I can't do anymore with chill, but she SHOULD be in A-S Reir!

Quote: SPARXisAWESOME

Hey guys, just asking about the list- why was Cynder demoted to 'good characters' on Nether Wielder?

A couple of reasons (if you want more detail there are posts regarding this in this thread)

1) Between the strength of many Wow Pow's of S2 reposes and the high hitpoint that Giants have, many S1 Skylanders were dropped down a notch as the new "S" characters are significantly more powerful than in S:SA.

2) Cynder in S:G was hit hard by the Nerf Bat; while dashing she is no longer invulnerable as she was (at least in xBox and PS3), her lightning appears to affect a smaller area, and the DPS of the lightning is less.

Quote:

invulnerable as she was

I keep saying it- at least on Wii, she could always be hit while Shadow Dashing. Regardless, she definitely is a lot more vulnerable now and takes several hits rather than the possibilty of one or two. Mainly, due to the Shadow Dash being demoted and her Wow Pow being less than useless(actually a hinderance), she can't deal with Giants' bulk, and many upgrades to older characters leave her greatly outshined. (If I'm totally honest with you, I actually thought she was the 2nd weakest S Tier in SA... After Dino-Rang...)

Chill (Ice Lancer) really does deserve A-tier placement, I agree. I would differ on S-rank, but she competes fine in the A-tier for the following reasons.

Yes, she's a projectile character, and on paper her lances sound like Gill Grunt's harpoons... until you actually see the rate of fire. She throws waves of them, they do 25 damage each, they can split into six when shot through an ice wall, and Chill does not stand still or lose movement speed while firing. That is a VERY solid projectile attack that adds up fast and, on top of all of that, is extremely hard to dodge without cover.

The narwhal. As people who've played Chill probably know by now, you only need to wait through approximately the first half of the charge-up animation before you can release and fire the narwhal. The attack is a wide, albeit linear blast, and does 100~ damage on a very short charge.

She is defensively solid. Those ice walls are handy, and field defense is very important in Giants. The fact that they help with Shatterspear is a nice perk, but even without it, the ability to crowd the field with shield objects is a great skill for any character.

What the whole package amounts to is definitely not S-tier, but she shreds the B-tier like paper, and competes well with other A-tier characters.

• Chill / Ice Lancer placed in A Tier.
  

With thanks to both Joerox123 and Tashiji.

Sonic Boom S2 Medea is actually really good. Baby AI is improved dramatically, and it's possible to have one super baby and the four regular babies on the field at once. Definitely at least B-tier, if not A. Any other opinions?

Quote: Tashiji

Sonic Boom S2 Medea is actually really good. Baby AI is improved dramatically, and it's possible to have one super baby and the four regular babies on the field at once. Definitely at least B-tier, if not A. Any other opinions?

We just got Sonic Boom today so it'll be a couple of days before she's leveled enough to PvP

Quote: Slivers

Quote: Tashiji

Sonic Boom S2 Medea is actually really good. Baby AI is improved dramatically, and it's possible to have one super baby and the four regular babies on the field at once. Definitely at least B-tier, if not A. Any other opinions?

We just got Sonic Boom today so it'll be a couple of days before she's leveled enough to PvP

Use the Kaos method. He will spawn infinite minions as long as you don't kill him, and proportionally, they're the best EXP per second in the game. Be sure to put your EXP Luck-o-Trons on first of course.

Oh my gosh, with all the good characters I fear A Tier will become oversaturated again.

A-tier is getting a lot stronger, and some of the stragglers are going to end up in B before long I'd wager.

Quote: weebbby

Flashwing on Super Spinner.
Damage that racks up fast while using the spin attack. Around 16, I think, but it goes really fast.
Same while using shards.
She is outstanding, but I wouldn't say broken, so I would say A tier is appropriate for her.

With the extra armor Super Spinner gives, and the healing element of the Shard path, I'd say she's deffo A tier, she's hard to damage.

I think, when I get Sprocket (which hopefully will be tomorrow), I will using go down the Gearhead path first using Tashiji's money and XP methods, just so I can test her out. But then I will change to Operator.

I forgot which is which. I picked the sentries, I got all the upgrades but did not test out the final "Self Destruct".

The turret/tank/sentry upgrades are found in the Gearhead path.

I disagree with Tree-Rex being so high.

There are so many characters with a way out or the ability to play keep away that there's no way he can compete. Even the speed boost on Treefolk Charger isn't enough to compensate for a character with a dash or ranged attack that can just keep out of the way and whittle him down. Just look at your A Tier right now.

Drobot / Master Blaster - Projectile
Sprocket / Operator - Projectile
Stump Smash S2 / Smash 'n Bash - Projectile
Zook / Floral Defender - Projectile
Camo / Melon Master -Projectile
Camo / Vine Virtuoso - Projectile
Stealth Elf / Pook Blade Saint - Too Fast
Bash / Granite Dragon - Dash/Roll
Bash / Pulver Dragon - Dash/Roll
Bash S2 / Pulver Dragon - Dash/Roll
Terrafin / Brawler - Dash/Dig
Terrafin / Sandhog - Dash/Dig
Dino-Rang / Grand Boomerang Master - Projectile
Slam Bam S2 / Blizzard Brawler - Dash
Wham-Shell / Captain Crustacean - Projectile
Chill / Ice Lancer - Projectile
Flameslinger S2 / Marksman (G) - Projectile/Dash
Hot Head / The Burninator - Projectile
Cynder / Shadow Dancer - Dash
Cynder S2 / Shadow Dancer - Dash
Hex S2 / Shade Master - Projectile
Chop Chop S2 / Undead Defender - Dash
Fright Rider / Joust Jockey - Dash

Giants has a LOT of projectile users and quite a few that have a dash. Anybody who has fought Tree Rex once or hell just seen his moves once is going to be able to get out of the way and annoy him. The Cannon isn't a reliable projectile to go head to head with other ranged characters and his inability to turn well when charging is going to make him fodder for anyone paying attention as long as they're smart enough to stay in the open. The speed of his charge is irrelevant when your opponent knows it's his main way of attack and he just barrels down in a straight line. Far too predictable.

The reason the giants are mor then likely never gonna drop below B or so is their hit point pool. While I'm not directly disagreeing with you, the sheer level of constant evasion you'd have to perform with most of the A tier to try to knock his hit points is more then most can handle, granted the tree Rex player knows what they are doing. His hit radius is fairly Impressive on his shoulder drop to where you only need to be close, not dead on. It's no where near the level of Crushers hammer, but it is still something. If I only have to hot you 10 times and you have to hit me 100, who has the advantage?

I was just thinking that S2 Pulver Dragon is so much better than either version of S1 Bash that I honestly don't believe they should be in the same tier. With the way gameplay has changed to favor defense and strategy, I would hazard that both versions of S1 Bash no longer have what it takes, while S2 Pulver actually does--and to a fair degree--thanks to the effectiveness of the Wow Pow combo. S1 Bash, though, is just too limited for A-tier. I would move both versions to B; he can still hang, but A is getting much tougher than it was when we started revising for Giants.

I am getting and tomorrow! Which path is better for each? P.S I took a break from DS.

^ Official Upgrade Topic please.
But:

Chill: Ice Lancer
Pop Fizz: Beast One (honestly I don't have him, but it looks better.)

Thx. i forgot to post on the upgrade thread.

Best of the Beast is boring to me and the Beast Form itself is too slow for my liking.

I love how unique Mad Scientist is though. Makes for some really tactical and fun play.

The general consensus seems to be that Best of the Best is superior but I feel like Mad Scientist hasn't really been used enough yet because of how daunting the potion switching play style appears.

So that we can finally put one of Swarms paths in a tier I am going to play some pvp as Barberous avenger.

Quote: Tashiji

I was just thinking that S2 Pulver Dragon is so much better than either version of S1 Bash that I honestly don't believe they should be in the same tier. With the way gameplay has changed to favor defense and strategy, I would hazard that both versions of S1 Bash no longer have what it takes, while S2 Pulver actually does--and to a fair degree--thanks to the effectiveness of the Wow Pow combo. S1 Bash, though, is just too limited for A-tier. I would move both versions to B; he can still hang, but A is getting much tougher than it was when we started revising for Giants.

Sounds pretty reasonable.

• Bash / Granite Dragon (series one) moved to B Tier, until further research is made.
  
• Bash / Pulver Dragon (series one) moved to B Tier, until further research is made.
  

EDIT: @Mrmorrises: That would be much apreciated!