darkSpyro

I agree Jet vac is very underrated. Hes amazing on bird blaster.

Sandhog S2 definitely remains S Tier in my testing PvP Battles. It may be my imagination, but the little sharks now seem to persist more and deal more damage. Even Hex S2 has difficulty as well as Ignitor as they just cannot hit him reliably.

From what i'm gathering, Jet-Vac / Packeteer and Cynder / Shadow Dancer should be the ones I move next, but i'm still indecisive as to where.

EDIT: Actually, should I also move Series 1 Terrafin / Sandhog? In the face of the new S Tier competition with their flashy Wow Pow powers, he may have less of a place now.

Yes, S1 Sandhog to A seems reasonable to me.

Quote: Aquatic Llama

Sandhog is easily S tier. All you do is cut your opponent with your fins, bellyflop, and rinse and repeat. It's not even fair. He has enough speed and his attacks do enough damage. Why is this even being debated. He can be invincible underground! Seriously!

Jet Vac is kinda underrated. He's average. I would say C tier. He's not D or E. All you needed to do is shoot and use your Jet Pack to avoid attacks. He's not a great character but he's not bad. He's not flashy, but he gets the job done.

Actually, I'd say being fast is the drawback on this path, MORE than enough speed. He is real fast, but hard to control on Sandhog. Kind of like a issue with his Forcefield Ball. You can easily cut him off around platforms & platforms; plus his only strong attack on Sandhog is the bellyflop. Razorfin and his other attacks do petty little damage, so it's pretty useless. I will admit, his Wow Pow is useful though.

Quote: Nibelilt

Yes, S1 Sandhog to A seems reasonable to me.

*nod*

• Terrafin / Sandhog (series 1) moved to A Tier.
  

Wook, we Do have a lot of work ahead of us. Like Egonaut said, I think we all should work together to figure out the placements of the S1 characters first.

I noticed Nether welder cynder had a pretty awesome buff, instead of only one ghost exploding when you zap it ALL of the ghosts in its range explode, making for nice damage out of the deal.

I have just started my Zook testing. My first finding: He seems to be overall faster. It might just be me, but it seems as if his bazooka shoots quicker. I have also noticed a little bit of a walkspeed increase, also. That may be helpful.

Fun fact: Zook's Target Lock! allows him to rapid fire mortars- according to the guide.

Quote: Nibelilt

Fun fact: Zook's Target Lock! allows him to rapid fire mortars- according to the guide.

Is that his Wow Pow?

He can aim where it lands, and apparently fire them faster while doing that(like Bouncer's multi-rocket upgrade).

Quote: Nibelilt

He can aim where it lands, and apparently fire them faster while doing that(like Bouncer's multi-rocket upgrade).

Oh, ok.

Ok, I am not finished with my tests, but I think Zook is still a PVP master. His regualr bazooka fires faster, which helps even Floral Defender a little because it acts as another viable way of damage. His mortars seem more sticky to your opponent, making deploying the cacti an easier task. I will report back with more tests later.

Quote: Aquatic Llama

Sandhog is easily S tier. All you do is cut your opponent with your fins, bellyflop, and rinse and repeat. It's not even fair. He has enough speed and his attacks do enough damage. Why is this even being debated. He can be invincible underground! Seriously!

Jet Vac is kinda underrated. He's average. I would say C tier. He's not D or E. All you needed to do is shoot and use your Jet Pack to avoid attacks. He's not a great character but he's not bad. He's not flashy, but he gets the job done.

Yep. Sandhog is predictable, but quite broken.

Alright, S1 Zook should definitely stay in S tier. Not only are his mortars stickier than before, but they have a great amount of knockback. Although you won't be using the regular bazooka much, it fires quicker for some extra damage. He walks a bit faster, which is fantastic to help his strategies work even better. Even the single cacti brought by the mortar still act like great walls, and they can chip away at opponents just as well, if not better, than before.

And I don't have S2 Zook, but I am thinking that he might be a Giant Killer. Heck, even S1 Zook could act like a Giant Killer, but I don't feel that strongly about that, and it would require some more testing.

All the research about Zook sounds great, Bean Sprout, so thanks alot, but what I need to know now is how does he actually compete with his fellow S Tier rivals?

Quote: EgoNaut

All the research about Zook sounds great, Bean Sprout, so thanks alot, but what I need to know now is how does he actually compete with his fellow S Tier rivals?

Yeah, that is what I am doing now.
I'll check back in a couple of minutes.

Here's the exact quote mentioning the rapid fire.
Quote:

Target Lock! allows Zook to fire pineapple mortars rapidly whenever he likes. This is a huge upgrade because it allows Zook to spread cacti all over the battlefield, keeping enemies diverted while he pelts them with even more pineapple mortars!

I nominate Pop Fizz Mad Scientist for B Tier. His All In upgrade (the one where he throws 3 potions at once) does Massive Damage! His Mixologist moves are pretty helpful (though they only work with the Green potions thrown first) and his bottle minions walk up to your opponent and explode into an acid pool. His Beast Form is pretty good too (but I don't use it often). But he's slow moving and has low health.

Zook could make quick work of Double Trouble. The new mortar knockback and stickyness could enable Zook to do most of the damage he can do out of Magic Bomb range. The cacti should be able to redirect the Eldritch beam and keep DB from locking on efficiently. And his new speed would be able to easily overcome DB’s atrocious movements, keeping Zook at a safe distance from the Magic Bombs. I don’t know about Sandhog Terrafin, but Zook is able to stop Brawler quite easily. If he tries to dig, he can just clog up the way with cacti. Dino Rang is be close, and Dino is able to boomerang shield through the cacti. Still, the spammable mortars are great at draining health, and they would be able to overcome DR. I don’t own Crusher, but I would assume keeping a keep-away tactic against him with the mortar damage should work. The only problem would be him smashing the cacti in front of him, but Zook could stay far enough away to keep him from getting great damage in. Cynder was able to win some of the time against him due to the elemental advantages, but Zook managed to prevail a couple times, due to the nerfs she had experienced.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Zook could make quick work of Double Trouble. The new mortar knockback and stickyness could enable Zook to do most of the damage he can do out of Magic Bomb range. The cacti should be able to redirect the Eldritch beam and keep DB from locking on efficiently. And his new speed would be able to easily overcome DB’s atrocious movements, keeping Zook at a safe distance from the Magic Bombs. I don’t know about Sandhog Terrafin, but Zook is able to stop Brawler quite easily. If he tries to dig, he can just clog up the way with cacti. Dino Rang is be close, and Dino is able to boomerang shield through the cacti. Still, the spammable mortars are great at draining health, and they would be able to overcome DR. I don’t own Crusher, but I would assume keeping a keep-away tactic against him with the mortar damage should work. The only problem would be him smashing the cacti in front of him, but Zook could stay far enough away to keep him from getting great damage in. Cynder was able to win some of the time against him due to the elemental advantages, but Zook managed to prevail a couple times, due to the nerfs she had experienced.

I found most of my fights between Zook and Double Trouble very arena dependant, with Terrafin Zook almost always won and Zook always was able to beat Dino rang. So overall these are pretty accurate to what I found. I just wonder if Double Troubles splitting Eldritch beam will change his fights with Zook.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: Bean Sprout

Zook could make quick work of Double Trouble. The new mortar knockback and stickyness could enable Zook to do most of the damage he can do out of Magic Bomb range. The cacti should be able to redirect the Eldritch beam and keep DB from locking on efficiently. And his new speed would be able to easily overcome DB’s atrocious movements, keeping Zook at a safe distance from the Magic Bombs. I don’t know about Sandhog Terrafin, but Zook is able to stop Brawler quite easily. If he tries to dig, he can just clog up the way with cacti. Dino Rang is be close, and Dino is able to boomerang shield through the cacti. Still, the spammable mortars are great at draining health, and they would be able to overcome DR. I don’t own Crusher, but I would assume keeping a keep-away tactic against him with the mortar damage should work. The only problem would be him smashing the cacti in front of him, but Zook could stay far enough away to keep him from getting great damage in. Cynder was able to win some of the time against him due to the elemental advantages, but Zook managed to prevail a couple times, due to the nerfs she had experienced.

I found most of my fights between Zook and Double Trouble very arena dependant, with Terrafin Zook almost always won and Zook always was able to beat Dino rang. So overall these are pretty accurate to what I found. I just wonder if Double Troubles splitting Eldritch beam will change his fights with Zook.

Yeah, Zook is pretty Arena Dependent. Sometimes, he was able to stand on a ledge and mortar away, but sometimes he had to run away for a little. And that is a good point about S2 Double, as they could travel from cacti to cacti, or from cacti to Zook.

Quote: LightSpyro13

I nominate Pop Fizz Mad Scientist for B Tier. His All In upgrade (the one where he throws 3 potions at once) does Massive Damage! His Mixologist moves are pretty helpful (though they only work with the Green potions thrown first) and his bottle minions walk up to your opponent and explode into an acid pool. His Beast Form is pretty good too (but I don't use it often). But he's slow moving and has low health.

Sounds good, LightSpyro, but the information I actually need to add a character to a tier is how well they actually perform fighting the characters in that tier and the tiers above and below.

For now I think Zook can safely stay in the current S Tier.
We need more people to do the sort of stuff Bean Sprout just did, then we'd be tearing through all these character evaluations in no time!

So here's the problem with Sandhog S1 being moved to Tier A. I just spent the last 45 mins in PvP with Terrafin S1 versus both Zook S1 with most Heroic Challenges done and Zook S2 with a few Heroic Challenges done.

Terrafin didn't lose a single Battle arena against either Zook. Yes, some took a few minutes to complete, but honestly Terrafin S1 even w/o Wow Pow was never really in danger of dieing. Maybe I'm just too comfortable using Terrafin versus my friend w/ Zook, but I mostly doubt that. The only "catch" I use on Terrafin is to NOT buy his Soul Gem ability as I do not want bounce pads to work while underground.

Back on the point EgoNaut made earlier today, this is not always a DPS race but a question of who in "S" class can reliably beat Terrafin S1 Sandhog?

Hopefully Toys R Us has more Hot head, bash and flameslingers tomorrow. I'd love to get them in on some matches!!

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: LightSpyro13

I nominate Pop Fizz Mad Scientist for B Tier. His All In upgrade (the one where he throws 3 potions at once) does Massive Damage! His Mixologist moves are pretty helpful (though they only work with the Green potions thrown first) and his bottle minions walk up to your opponent and explode into an acid pool. His Beast Form is pretty good too (but I don't use it often). But he's slow moving and has low health.

Sounds good, LightSpyro, but the information I actually need to add a character to a tier is how well they actually perform fighting the characters in that tier and the tiers above and below.

For now I think Zook can safely stay in the current S Tier.
We need more people to do the sort of stuff Bean Sprout just did, then we'd be tearing through all these character evaluations in no time!

Thanks! And I just did a little test on how the game engine works with Wrecking Ball and...
It is nearly exactly the same. The only difference I saw was that his forcefield blast has a little bit of a larger range. I guess they didn't want to fix him up like they fixed Chop Chop.

Quote: Slivers

So here's the problem with Sandhog S1 being moved to Tier A. I just spent the last 45 mins in PvP with Terrafin S1 versus both Zook S1 with most Heroic Challenges done and Zook S2 with a few Heroic Challenges done.

Terrafin didn't lose a single Battle arena against either Zook. Yes, some took a few minutes to complete, but honestly Terrafin S1 even w/o Wow Pow was never really in danger of dieing. Maybe I'm just too comfortable using Terrafin versus my friend w/ Zook, but I mostly doubt that. The only "catch" I use on Terrafin is to NOT buy his Soul Gem ability as I do not want bounce pads to work while underground.

Back on the point EgoNaut made earlier today, this is not always a DPS race but a question of who in "S" class can reliably beat Terrafin S1 Sandhog?

While I tend to agree with your assessment, any experienced Sandhog Terrafin player who just wants to win can pretty much always win against anything. My question is did you flip flop control. Was he able to beat you? If not, you are just better player. If he beat you, Terrafin is just the better fighter.

Quote:

While I tend to agree with your assessment, any experienced Sandhog Terrafin player who just wants to win can pretty much always win against anything. My question is did you flip flop control. Was he able to beat you? If not, you are just better player. If he beat you, Terrafin is just the better fighter.

Anyone with any PvP experience who can pick a specific Skylander and "can pretty much always win against anything" is the definition S class. And for the most part, this is what happens when someone chooses Terrafin as he doesn't have a solid counter.

Quote: Slivers

Quote:

While I tend to agree with your assessment, any experienced Sandhog Terrafin player who just wants to win can pretty much always win against anything. My question is did you flip flop control. Was he able to beat you? If not, you are just better player. If he beat you, Terrafin is just the better fighter.

Anyone with any PvP experience who can pick a specific Skylander and "can pretty much always win against anything" is the definition S class. And for the most part, this is what happens when someone chooses Terrafin as he doesn't have a solid counter.

While it's a fair point, half of the purpose of thlips to designate ease of play. So while I was phenomenal with Gill Grunt in the last game and rarely lost, that was only where his ceiling was. Testing showed I was the exception not the standard. Otherwise according to me, he needs to go in the S tier. This has been my main gripe against the list. People find a character they can play and be cheap with, their buddies/kids can't figure it out and they want to claim a high tier for them. If you clean your buddy's clock with Zook while he uses Terrafin, you have proven nothing other then you are a better player. So at this stage you are better with Terrafin then he is with Zook.

Control should always be random as to who is playing who in specific character on character testing especially.

I just read that post with a GLaDOS voice.

Testing showed that I was the exception-not the standard.

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: LightSpyro13

I nominate Pop Fizz Mad Scientist for B Tier. His All In upgrade (the one where he throws 3 potions at once) does Massive Damage! His Mixologist moves are pretty helpful (though they only work with the Green potions thrown first) and his bottle minions walk up to your opponent and explode into an acid pool. His Beast Form is pretty good too (but I don't use it often). But he's slow moving and has low health.

Sounds good, LightSpyro, but the information I actually need to add a character to a tier is how well they actually perform fighting the characters in that tier and the tiers above and below.

For now I think Zook can safely stay in the current S Tier.
We need more people to do the sort of stuff Bean Sprout just did, then we'd be tearing through all these character evaluations in no time!

Well for one: The B tier characters have weaker attacks than him on this path, such as on Crystaleer or on Conjuror. Pop FIzz is also good at close to mid range with his monster form and his potions, and his bottle minions can be kind of annoying (they can shoot projectiles at you rapidly, but they don't last too long and can be killed quite easily). However, he doesn't really have any long-ranged attacks and is pretty slow, so it can be hard to close in on your opponent. He's good for fighting close or mid range characters such as or ; but not very good for long range characters such as or due to his low speed, low health, and lack of long ranged attacks. But his mixologist moves do great damage with All In (Green potion + Orange Potion is a really good combination and brings the pain).

I'd say he's slightly above average.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: LightSpyro13

I nominate Pop Fizz Mad Scientist for B Tier. His All In upgrade (the one where he throws 3 potions at once) does Massive Damage! His Mixologist moves are pretty helpful (though they only work with the Green potions thrown first) and his bottle minions walk up to your opponent and explode into an acid pool. His Beast Form is pretty good too (but I don't use it often). But he's slow moving and has low health.

Sounds good, LightSpyro, but the information I actually need to add a character to a tier is how well they actually perform fighting the characters in that tier and the tiers above and below.

For now I think Zook can safely stay in the current S Tier.
We need more people to do the sort of stuff Bean Sprout just did, then we'd be tearing through all these character evaluations in no time!

Well for one: The B tier characters have weaker attacks than him on this path, such as on Crystaleer or on Conjuror. Pop FIzz is also good at close to mid range with his monster form and his potions, and his bottle minions can be kind of annoying (they can shoot projectiles at you rapidly, but they don't last too long and can be killed quite easily). However, he doesn't really have any long-ranged attacks and is pretty slow, so it can be hard to close in on your opponent. He's good for fighting close or mid range characters such as or ; but not very good for long range characters such as or due to his low speed, low health, and lack of long ranged attacks. But his mixologist moves do great damage with All In (Green potion + Orange Potion is a really good combination and brings the pain).

I'd say he's slightly above average.

Sounds alright for now. Thanks for the research.

• Pop Fizz / Mad Scientist placed in B Tier.
  

I have chosen Mad Scientist for my Pop Fizz, and I agree with LightSpyro's judgements of him. You would normally be using the orane potion, which does great damage due to the speed he can throw it. The All-in has helped me if the opponent gets close, but otherwise Pop Fizz doesn't have much to do if a meleeist gets near him. Also, fast projectilers can harm him very much. So yeah, I can confirm those judgements as accurate.

I think we can all agree crystal path Flashwing is atleast an upper A

Terrafin really does have weaknesses this time. Not to specific characters per say, but since his burrow doesn't climb, he won't be nearly as effective on any arena with raised terrain. He doesn't have anything to hit characters above him, and that's actually a real concern in Giants, due to how many more multi-tiered arenas there are. That being said, I do agree with S-Rank, but I disagree that he's unbeatable. It all really depends on where you're fighting.

Quote: Tashiji

. He doesn't have anything to hit characters above him

His bodyslam used to be able to do that in a way, did they change that in Giants?

Well, you have to be right next to them, and being on higher terrain usually means you have enough room to avoid that now. Arenas are much less claustrophobic than in S:SA.

EDIT: Oh, and I've been playing S2 Flameslinger a lot more. I'm starting to re-evaluate what I said about A-tier being the limit for him. He's pretty obviously an S-tier character now on Pyromancer (but not Marksman), for the same reasons Cynder was such a problem in the first game. Uncatchable (fastest in the game), tons of field defense, and now, Supernova is able to be executed with tons of room for error because of his Wow Pow. Also, cooldown between flame dashes has been greatly reduced, so there's no longer that period between dashing where you're kind of defenseless. You can more or less dash continuously now, for over twice the distance you could in S:SA. This is a massively improved character.

Keep in mind that Terrafin's bellyflop has a spherical area of effect and not a circular one. So if you bellyflop at the edge of high and they are too close, you will still hit them. So arenas like Wheel of Doom will offer the opponent no real protection hanging out on higher elevation.

By in large, when you loose with Sandhog Terrafin, regardless of the version, it is normally because you played sloppily and didn't just show a little patience, which any 8 year old who wants to beat his dad will pick up on. So both Sandhogs should stay in the S-Tier IMHO.

• Series 1 Terrafin / Sandhog moved back to S tier.
  
• Flameslinger S2 / Pyromancer moved to S Tier.
  

All sounds good so far, now I just want to hear more about Cynder / Nether Wielder and Stealth Elf / Pook Blade Saint, and then we can eventually move on to the A Tier suspects.

I would absolutely move both down a tier. Cynder is catchable now, and can be hurt while Shadow Dashing. She's still a good character, but the ability to be caught effectively means she doesn't do enough damage. Her lower numbers never mattered before because she was able to outlast, but not so much in Giants.

Stealth Elf's melee does not compound the way it did in S:SA. She still does nice damage, but not peerless damage like before. Her HP is too low, her Acrobatics don't travel as far as they used to or as quickly, and this all amounts to there being better melee characters out there. S2 Bash, S2 Slam Bam, Crusher on either path... she's not without equal (or superior, for that matter) anymore.

Yeah oddly enough, Stealth Elf was who Drobot was actually able to compete with when I tested him. I would assuredly say she should get the bump down a level. Cynder I haven't played much. We might want to test her in B tier to tell you the truth. Being vulnerable changes EVERYTHING. Probably the character who took the greatest overall hit.

about chill... I use the ice spear path and it is destructive! 25's faster than flameslinger, the shatterspear ability mixed with the tri-shot creates waves of aprox. 6 spears. I would say tier B, or lower A.

I actually think the nerfs to old S-tier Characters was uncalled for, seeing as how pretty much everything Btier and lower was buffed to actually be STRONGER than they were in the first place, I mean its like the each method (by adding a wow pow or by changing the existing abillities) of a specific underpowered character was made without thought to the changes that were made by the other kind of buff/nerf. Like, the weaksauce characters seem to be given broken Wow Pows to make up for their weaksauceness, even though changes to the way the existing abilities already made them Average, while with Stealth Elf, She is given a Wow-Pow that does NOTHING to bring up her dps, despite getting her existing skills nerfed in a way that removes like 20% of each attributes that would make her broken, her speed and distance from attack 3, and a bit of her damage from attack 1. See, they gave the previouly weaksauce characters buffs to make them adequate, which means that having a wow pow that would put them well within A tier, or even S TIER without the buffs is comepletely wrong. this might have meant slightly better balance if the OLD S tiers were not nerfed, because then the Skylanders would have less of a gap in skill barrier, and about half of the classes would have been S-tier material by Spyro's Adventure's reckoning, and virtually NO skylanders would have been Below Upper B tier by Spyro's Adventure's reckoning, so the power gap would not have been so large and since most of them would have been around S tier, the odds of a one sided fight would bemuch smaller, and the fights that ARE one sided would have been either LESS one sided on average, or they would be one-sided simply because there was strategy involved (like, playing a path that takes skill to master, or using a Skylander whose playstyle was a good counter to the opponents) so they would be bit better. However, they could have done without lowering Stealth Elf's Elf Acrobatic's Speed and distance, she's already gonna be taken out if she takes a single hit from Hex's skull servant, (which is partly because of here somewhat low health, and quite a bit thanks to her Elemental Disadvantage, but a vast majority of it is to Skull Servants 2 hundred something base power, a, and that's mainly if Hex has invested heavily on elemental power bonuses, with only default EP, Hex'd do closer 3/5 of her HP), or she may survive, but she'll be almost dead, the only way to possibly tank another hit would be to regain most of her HP) with either food, or dodging long enough, and both dodging long enough to regain enough health in the event she does get hit and avoiding getting hit altogether would be harder. (not that I'd actually TRY to fight Hex with a Stealth Elf, that's just plain stupid, but someone were to challenge me with a stealth elf, I wouldn't want to use Hex, I'd win too easily heck, I'd win too easily against virtually ANY opponent with constant protection from a bone shield that Ican hide behind when I charge up my Skull Servant that I can Charge up even WITH one summoned already, and my opponent would be too busy my current one to worry about attacking me, and even if they DID find a way to break down my shield, rather than let my charge be interrupted by an attack, I would just stop charging long enough to set up another shield, and the broken bits of the unfinished skull would further fortify my defenses while I charged up another. That Summon is just too darn powerful and allows for a strategy too darn simple for how darn foolproof or effective it is, see, if it were 1/4 as powerful, which wouldstill be too strong for a summon, it would actually be somewhat reasonable, as you could at least get a few shots in against her, without actually using her YOURSELF

^ Juarmo, you're right. They actually did implement major fixes to all the characters our tier lists denoted as mediocre or bad, and nerfs to most of the "broken" ones. By and large, Wow Pows for characters that were already powerful are nice, but not major. This lends some validity to the tier list we made for S:SA, because our character strength predictions actually ended up being pretty accurate to the buff/nerf process TFB legitimately followed with Giants.

How are people claimig to have stealth and hot dog?

• Stealth Elf / Pook Blade Saint (both series) moved to A Tier for the moment.
  
• Cynder / Nether Wielder (both series) moved to A Tier for the moment.
  

Awesome! That's the S Tier evaluations pretty much done for the moment, so we can focus on the A Tier now...

The characters in the current A Tier that I think we should be evaluating are as follows:
Voodood / Marauder
Drobot / Master Blaster (both series)
Camo / (both paths)
Stump Smash S2 / Nut Crafter
Stealth Elf / Pook Blade Saint (both series)
Bash / (both paths and both series)
Series 1 Terrafin / (both paths)
Slam Bam / Blizzard Brawler (both series)
Wham-Shell / Captain Crustacean
Flameslinger S2 / Marksman
Sunburn / (both paths)
Hot Head / The Burninator
Cynder / (both paths and both series)
Hex S2 / Shade Master

IE: Pretty much all the A Tier characters with a couple left out.

What I need people to do are two things:
1. Battle all of the suspect A Tier characters with the rest of the A Tier, as many characters as possible and as much as possible, to find out which ones still hold their place with the rest of the A tier, and which ones are either two weak or too powerful, and need to be moved.
2. Battle the entire A Tier with the S Tier, to check that on the whole, most of the A Tier is generally worse that most of the S Tier.

Based on some playing in Story I didn't notice any change in Stealth Elf's damage numbers and I seriously think that moving her down is a mistake.

I also noticed, like you could chain Zap's Sea Slime in SA, you can chain Fright Rider's Jousting Charge for basically continuous running- I'm not sure this is worth moving SLAL back up, it's just something to consider in evaluation. I didn't try it out with Joust Jockey so I'm not sure wether the exploit will work with that.

I don't have actual suggestions at the moment, however.

Quote: Nibelilt

Based on some playing in Story I didn't notice any change in Stealth Elf's damage numbers and I seriously think that moving her down is a mistake.

As Tashiji just said, her actual damage numbers haven't changed, but other things about her have been nerfed, such as the speed and length of her acrobatics. With the sorts of buffs that all the other characters have been recieving, Stealth Elf's damage per second just isn't as unmatched as it was before anyway.

The speed and length of her Acrobatics is the same as it was in the Wii version last time, though. She's no longer a goddess of S Tier but I don't see why move her down. Maybe it's just me being used to the nerf

The problem is, the Wii version never got it right to Acrobatics, and one would have hoped that she would keep the HD version. She was always better on PS360 anyway.

But the nerf is more than a damage thing, it's a fundamental shift away from melees bashing stuff in the Giants metagame. The best characters have some way to defend themselves and deflect Giants now, but Stealth Elf doesn't. I don't know if Upper A is right until we see her Wow Pow--maybe it will defy expectations, who knows--but for now, both Zook and, of all characters, Stump Smash, are better Life champions.