darkSpyro

Let's put it this way to help us decide: Fright Rider / Lance A Lot is currently in Upper A Tier. Now would you say that Jouster Jockey is generally worse, as good as, or better than Lance A lot?

Quote: EgoNaut

Let's put it this way to help us decide: Fright Rider / Lance A Lot is currently in Upper A Tier. Now would you say that Jouster Jockey is generally worse, as good as, or better than Lance A lot?

You know, I would say that Jouster is better. Fright Rider HP is just really low for him to become a meleeist with full potential.

Believe it or not I think Glacier yeti slam ham needs to move up due to the ice prisons. They seem to take more shaking to break and the glacier tactics upgrade compliments his wow pow.

Put tree rexs lumbering laserer in lower tier A. His charge is overpowered but his laser shots do 12 damage a hit fully upgraded. The pod part is useless but otherwise thats where I think it should be. Move Stump Smashs Smash n bash to the upper B tier, ghost roasters skull charge to upper A tier, gill grunts jetpack path to upper B tier, sheep burner spyro to lower B tier, boomers clobber troll to lower A tier, chop chops sword path to upper tier A and eruptors volcanoer to upper A tier. You should see for yourself.

I'll put Joust Jockey in Upper A then, for now.

Also, @Mrmorrises: "Slam Ham" - I like that! Someone here should make a photoshop image out of that.
I'll shift Slam Bam / Glacier Yeti up a tier on your recommendation for now, but I'd apreciate more evaluation from other people.

• Fright Rider / Joust Jockey placed in Upper A tier, until further research is made.
  
• Slam Bam Sn2 / Glacier Yeti moved to Upper B tier. Further evaluation would be apreciated. (Also, should I move his Season 1 version as well?)
  

Well what do you think of my suggestions?

Quote: gillgrunt987

Well what do you think of my suggestions?

I'll take your advice about Tree Rex / Lumbering Laserer for now, but I'd apreciate some evaluation from other people.

I had to ignore your other suggestions because you gave no reasons for why the characters should be moved.

• Tree Rex / Lumbering Laserer placed in Lower A Tier. Further evaluation would be apreciated.
  

Sorry, i was in a rush at the time. Heres 2 of them. Ghost Roasters Skull Charge path. Uupgradedpper tier A because when fully upgraded the charge does around 60 damage, it raises his speed greatly, and I have used him several times and won them all. I also beat "god"hex. Boomers Clobber troll inUpper tier A because his megaton smash does 100-150 damage and it only takes 2 secs to charge up. Plus, it also sometime stuns enimies.Boomer has taken out several a/s tiers and is really useful in pvps. Please take my ideas.

How does Vac packeteer Jet vac perform in pvp?

I've updated the first post with some important advice on how to post in this thread:

"I've started ignoring posts which only say "Character X should be in Y tier, character P should be in Q tier, etc" I really apreciate all contributions anyone can make here, but I can only make actual changes to the tier list based on opinions which are supported with reasons. The kind of reasons I want should state why a character should be in a certain tier by COMPARING THAT CHARACTER'S PERFORMANCE WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF OTHER CHARACTERS in that tier and the tiers below. You could also include similar reasons why the character shouldn't be in one of the tiers above!"


EDIT: @Mrmorrises: Badly, apparantly. Bird Blaster is generally thought to have more options for dealing damage, whereas Packeteer seems to be a bit of a one-trick pony where the one trick isn't very effective. I'm sure another poster here can tell you more.

Shroomboom on Paramushroom Promotion should be Lower A because his mushrooms do like 30 damage (Not the exact number.), they shoot faster, and he shoots 3 paramushrooms at once.

Please take my suggestions for ghost roaster and boomer.

This topic needs to be stickied.

@both weebbby and gillgrunt987:
Thanks for the suggestions, but it'd be more helpful if you can say why those characters should be in those particular tiers by comparison to the other characters in those tiers. Do the characters perform well when fighting the other characters in those tiers or the tiers below? Do those characters perform badly against the characters from the tiers above? Also remember that this thread is only about Battle Mode, not single player.

At least youre nice.

Quote: gillgrunt987

At least youre nice.

Thank you.
I'm not the kind of person who thinks anything bad or insulting about other people on this thread, because I know that all of us want to contribute. I just need people to understand I'm trying to keep a professional attitude here of sorts: I'm actually quite serious about making this the definitive, all-bases-covered tier list, so I can only make changes to it based on opinions that are shown to be credible.

STI-CKY! STI-CKY! STI-CKY!

Here are some new suggestions I will try to be very detailed:

Forest Ninja needs to go down to lower B. She just cant quite handle the other characters of that tier most notably Pyromancer Flameslinger Tempest dragon whirlwind Demolition troll boomer and Nut grafter stump smash. The only character she handily beats in that tier is Gill grunt but mostly just due to her elemental advantage.She can be frustrating to melee characters but just doesn't make upper B.

Channeler Double Trouble needs to be S tier. He slaughters Cynder can usually annihilate sandhog Terrafin and quite often Floral defender Zook. He sends most characters below him to their demise and easily destroys the rest of upper A like Pulver Dragon Bash. His very few counters are from characters who can spam projectiles to break his beam lock on. But I truly believe he is S tier material.

Here is my whole list.
/ Grand Boomerang Master should be moved down to Upper A, because he is NOT at all overpowered in PvP. In S Tier, he would be lose greatly against the other characters.
/ Nether Wielder should be Upper A, overpowered on Nether Wielder?, no, but is strong. Same comparisons as .
/ Channeler should be S (Both Versions.) he can beat everybody except on PvP, but he still does well against .
Sn2 / Brawler should be S because of the Wow Pow makes him just as good as the other path, just with a little less damage.
/ Ultimate Spinner should be Upper A (Both Versions.), because he is invincible while spinning and does 60 damage and barely takes anytime to start spinning. He can easily beat the others in Upper A.
Sn2 / Nut Crafter should be Upper A, because of the Wow Pow - Rapidfire Acorns. Double Rapidfire exploding acorns!?! He could beat everyone in Upper A.
/ Golden Frenzy should be Upper B (Both Versions.), because he shoots really fast and is average.
/ Wind Master should be Lower B, mainly just because of a tornado that chases your opponent.

Yes, is good against the characters I said he should be with.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Here are some new suggestions I will try to be very detailed:

Forest Ninja needs to go down to lower B. She just cant quite handle the other characters of that tier most notably Pyromancer Flameslinger Tempest dragon whirlwind Demolition troll boomer and Nut grafter stump smash. The only character she handily beats in that tier is Gill grunt but mostly just due to her elemental advantage.She can be frustrating to melee characters but just doesn't make upper B.

Channeler Double Trouble needs to be S tier. He slaughters Cynder can usually annihilate sandhog Terrafin and quite often Floral defender Zook. He sends most characters below him to their demise and easily destroys the rest of upper A like Pulver Dragon Bash. His very few counters are from characters who can spam projectiles to break his beam lock on. But I truly believe he is S tier material.

These are the kinds of posts I like to see!

• Stealth Elf / Forest Ninja (both seasons) moved to Lower B Tier. An opinion or two about her Season 2 version might be apreciated.
  
• Double Trouble / Channeler (both seasons) moved to S Tier.
  

BTW it's Series 2 not Season 2.

Quote: weebbby

Here is my whole list.
/ Grand Boomerang Master should be moved down to Upper A, because he is NOT at all overpowered in PvP. In S Tier, he would be lose greatly against the other characters.
/ Nether Wielder should be Upper A, overpowered on Nether Wielder?, no, but is strong. Same comparisons as .
/ Channeler should be S (Both Versions.) he can beat everybody except on PvP, but he still does well against .
Sn2 / Brawler should be S because of the Wow Pow makes him just as good as the other path, just with a little less damage.
/ Ultimate Spinner should be Upper A (Both Versions.), because he is invincible while spinning and does 60 damage and barely takes anytime to start spinning. He can easily beat the others in Upper A.
Sn2 / Nut Crafter should be Upper A, because of the Wow Pow - Rapidfire Acorns. Double Rapidfire exploding acorns!?! He could beat everyone in Upper A.
/ Golden Frenzy should be Upper B (Both Versions.), because he shoots really fast and is average.
/ Wind Master should be Lower B, mainly just because of a tornado that chases your opponent.

Yes, is good against the characters I said he should be with.

This is an alright post, I have comments about a few though.

I won't be moving Dino-Rang just yet because while he has had a few minor damage nerfs in 'Giants, I think they may not have affected his tier placement, as he was such an adamantly S-Tier character in Spyro's Adventure. Other people should correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm scared to do anything with Cynder / Nether Wielder for the moment, because I think she could do with a general re-evaluation. Any information anyone can give me would be apreciated in regards to how 'Giants has changed her performance!

Combined with LightSpyro13's opinions about Terrafin / Brawler, I think I have enough information for the moment to move him to S Tier, or his season 2 variant at least.

I'd quite like an evaluation on Wrecking Ball / Ultimate Spinner in general before I move him anywhere.

I won't be moving Trigger Happy or Warnado for the moment as those paths are generally thought to be in the right place. If anyone else has opinions about them that I should be aware of, then do speak up.

• Terrafin Sn2 / Brawler moved to S Tier.
  
• Stump Smash Sn2 / Nut Crafter moved to Upper A Tier until further research is made.
  
• Shroomboom / Paramushroom Promotion placed in Lower A tier.
  

EDIT: @WUMBOSIMPSON: It is?

*quickly goes to edit first post a lot*

^ I don't see how on Golden Money Bags is ranked higher than Golden Frenzy, Golden Frenzy is MUCH better in my opinion.

Quote: weebbby

^ I don't see how on Golden Money Bags is ranked higher than Golden Frenzy, Golden Frenzy is MUCH better in my opinion.

Same here.bouncing bullets alone trumps Golden money bags.

Test confirmed. Drobots ROF went from approx 5.7 blasts per second to around 4.2

So on top of the bladegear cut outs, the lasers not locking on as intensly, and the sheer fact his performance dropped in the test, I 100% stand by my recommendation to drop Drobot. I'm in the coast guard and had to work all day and all through the night with that tsunami warning so I couldn't test this out sooner.

Bean Sprout, I don't have hard feelings with you jumping my case, but please refrain from telling someone they are wrong just because. His rate of fire clearly did drop. I picked it up without having to put the old game in, and you are right I should have checked it and compared recordings to be sure, but with a drop in performance, it really didn't matter what the reasons were for my final recommendation. In short, my initial reasoning turn out to be spot on and I'm just a little surprised you called me out so ferociously.

Thanks, Earth-Dragon. That's pretty helpful stuff. I think I have enough information to keep Master Blaster in Upper A for the moment until any further opinions are expressed.

As for Trigger Happy, the matter of Golden Frenzy Vs Golden Money Bags was discussed a fair bit in the previous tier list thread and at one point in this one as well I think:
Basicly, 'Money Bags is quite adamantly thought to be the superior path for being able to do larger bursts of damage more reliably. The coin lob attack is a pretty hard hit and is difficult to dodge with all its cluster projectiles. Trigger Happy has dismally low health, so he needs this ability to do damage in quick bursts rather than with a steady stream of damage from the Golden Frenzy path: The Bouncing Bullets upgrade is good for causing a little confusion, but is actually less useful in PvP against most decent opponents. Even when the bullets do hit after rebounding, they never really do enough damage to be reliable. The Golden Yamato Blast attack is also useless in PvP (unless your opponent is truely rubbish at the game), because it takes far too long to charge, and can very easily be interrupted by any opponent who is paying attention, even right at the start of the match.

I have found Shroom boom to be so damn broken. My brothers plays as him and its insane he camps in an area spans paratroopers and bouncing shrooms. And this is all BEFORE shroomboom is on a path.

Quote: weebbby

^ I don't see how on Golden Money Bags is ranked higher than Golden Frenzy, Golden Frenzy is MUCH better in my opinion.

Golden Frenzy is terrible in PvP, Golden Money Bags is better for it.

Happiness is a Golden Gun does not increase the damage very much, so it doesn't benefit much.

The Golden Yamato Blast takes WAY too long to charge and it greatly slows him down when charging, it requires alot of luck to get to use it often.

The Bouncing Bullets are the only thing saving you in Battle, but it's not totally amazing. Besides, still has low health (and yes, I know you can now level him up to 15 and get more health, but it's still not enough to top most of the cast) and is utterly weak in close range. At least the Pots of Gold/Coins can knockback the opponent and do loads more damage (they can also hit your opponent on platforms, guns can't do that).

Also, more opinions on the list:

Slime Sea Serpent should be placed down to Lower B and Telsa Dragon should at least be Lower A (though I'd personally place him in Upper A, many people will disagree). Slime Sea Serpent isn't as good anymore, it was better for Spyro's Adventure. The Slime doesn't stay electrified forever, and it will eventually run out of juice about 6 seconds before the slime disappears; plus it doesn't knockback the opponent anymore (I think, I can't fully remember). As for Telsa Dragon, lightning is really good for spamming and the Wave helps knockback the opponent.

I have a new additional reason to place Sandhog lower: The Mini Sharks were more useful in Spyro's Adventure because they easily interrupt your attacks. But now you can easily shake them off like Stump Smash's acorn plants or Slam Bam's Ice Prisons. It sucks...

Fear Eater should be in Upper A, his attacks are really powerful and he's pretty fast now; plus Ectoplasm helps dodge powerful attacks (such as Bash's Gaia Hammer). Funny Story: I did vs in PvP. I destroyed 's summoned crystals with the Chain Tail attack and thenthe Crystals tunred into ghosts!! It also worked for 's Barrier's It's pretty helpful, but only against certain opponents.

Everyone working on this thread; please, more testing with Giants. I am trying to do what I can, but I think it's fair to say that their colossal HP changes the way PVP is played. All these normal size characters we're shifting ranks on might not be all that good anymore, because almost everyone has trouble whittling down a Giant. Giants may even comprise most of the new S-tier, with ultra-high damage characters like Hex and Ignitor being the only normal-sized Skylanders to crack the top. At least, that's my preliminary impression.

I don't have Hot Head, but without exception, every Giant seems to be a hard-fought if not impossible battle for most normal sized characters. Especially after the Giant has been upgraded.

Yeah, I think it's safe to say Hot Head/The Burninator should be S-tier. His high HP let's him douse you in oil and light you on fire before you can do any real damage.

Which characters did you fight as Burniator Hot head?

Agreed completely, Reaganag. People are too hard on the Giants because everyone was expecting huge numbers, but the truth is, Giants just have to outlast you. It doesn't matter that they mostly deal moderate damage, because moderate is enough to handle almost all opposition. S2 Hex is a major problem area since Giants are huge and slow, but that's the only regular-size character I've seen who has a discernable advantage versus a Giant.

Before this is all over, I predict that every Giant is at least Upper-A, if not higher. Even the bad Giants. HP is a dominant stat now, probably of equal worth to speed.

Something I'm upset about is Double Troubles wow. A spiltting beam just wont be very helpful unless you're against someone like Floral Defender Zoom. Couldn't they have made something like his Doubles have Eldritch beams? Oh well either way he will remain a God in pvp.

All sounding good so far. ^ ^
If anyone names me a tier for a Giant's upgrade path, I'll shove it there. Just fire away.

Hot Head/The Burninator should be moved to S-tier

Probably Should be a G Tier IMO, for Giants and characters that can hold their own against them. Keep S Tier for overpowered smaller characters.

Dino Rang hasn't suffered enough nerfs to move him down. After some testing he still holds his own. Drobots nerfs really hurt him. Much to my brothers agony, and my pleasure.

I can start doing tests on Giants soon, but right now I only have one. I like DT's suggestion for the name. Are we including uber normals with it?

Golden frenzy trigger should not move up. He just plain blows. Whenever me and my cousins, and my neighbors have PvP tournaments, he gets killed. He hasn't won a single match. Everyone has tried using him to no avail. I don't know if his wow pow changes that at all. His bullets don't do enough damage. He also has very low health. A combination for sucking. I don't see him moving up in the near future, for both paths.

Warnado is average. He is fine where he is.

For me, wins almost every match, whether either my dad or I am using him, and my dad is terrible at the game, and wins almost all the time when he uses + if is average, he should be Upper B, because that is the average tier, and C is the terrible characters.

I must admit I'm considering myself making a whole new "G" tier above S Tier for the good Giants to go in to, or the Regular characters that can compete with them.
I actually think we should try to disribute the Giants between the S and Upper A tiers for now and see what happens: If the S Tier gets clogged up so much that it needs to be divided, then we'll make the G tier.

Admittedly with Giants I've been thinking there should be a beyond-S Tier. Otherwise that batch will simply become too big.
Quote:

Stealth Elf / Forest Ninja (both seasons) moved to Lower B Tier. An opinion or two about her Season 2 version might be apreciated.

Series 2 will make no difference. All she gets is a poor spinning combo that apparently does the same damage as her regular hits.

Medea Griffin should be dropped down to Lower A. She's good on that path, but not that good. I don't care how much damage the eggs do, she fires them too slowly and the eggs are short-ranged; they're pretty useless for me. Besides, the regular roar only does 1 less damage and fires more quickly.

As I said before, Sheep Burner needs to be dropped down to C tier (maybe even a D tier for Ultra Bad Characters). I dont care what people say, that path is extremely awful in PvP. The Fire Shield doesn't block projectiles, does petty little damage, and only hurts nearby enemies that try to attack Spyro from the side or from behind; it's a crappy upgrade. The Daybringer Flame doesn't take long too charge, but it only does 30 damage (not counting critical hits) and travels slowly, so it's kind of useless. The Exploding Flameballs only increases a small amount of damage, and there are no enemies spawning in PvP; it doesn't benefit much. Besides, Spyro relies too much on his fireballs on this path; you can't expect much from his other moves.

As regular characters go, Drill Sergeant is now S-rank. His new laser upgrade fires every 4th Auto Blaster shot when fully upgraded, and does 10 per hit. I don't think I need to tell you how good a keep-away build Drill Sergeant is going to be now. Few can catch him, and he can now do hundreds of damage quickly with that auto blaster. Probably the best Tech as of right now. He's more Drobot-y than Drobot, because the Auto Blaster actually does "stick" fairly well, and will even auto-target accurately while escaping.

I also concur with "G" tier, because Giants are not fair. Previous top characters like Cynder can't even really scratch them. ... Which reminds me, Cynder is going to probably fall a few tiers. She can be damaged in Shadow Dash, and no matter what path you pick, those damage numbers won't be beating any Giants. I think to be in S-tier at all you at least need to be able to content with Giants.

I disagree with a "G" tier. Look at the Upper A right now....it's overly bloated. As more Drobot types slip into Upper A, they'll naturally be thinned out and pushed down. If anything we need to just have an S, A, B, C, D, F and if need be, put an E in there. Let's cut off the upper and lower non-sense.

And whoever says the giants don't have great damage just need to get a blasted crusher. 110 on a combo finisher is pretty huge according to me. Add that to the biggest pool of hitpoints in the game and you got yourself a monster. But Crusher losses to some of the bottom fodder who have speed range and an open/maneuverable play field (drill sergeant and gill the biggest two, but as has been stated Drill Sergeant is just plain taking names)

I think both Medea and Sheep Burner are fine now. I'll post my reasons later.

@Earth Dragon: I wasn't saying you were wrong, I was saying that sometimes random result numbers don't really help. But I now see that your post was more than just random result numbers, so I apologize for my responses to them.

@LightSpyro13: For Terrafin, the mini-sharks were always pretty useless and were never really a staple part of the Sandhog path, so I do not feel that that specific reason should affect his placement. For Zap, I have found that the slime electricity damage ticks a good deal quicker than in SA.

@Egonaut: I am not at the house where Giants is, but I have been wanting to do some tests on WB for a while now.
Also, after a little thought, I think Frighty's Lance A Lot path should be moved down to Lower A. His HP is just too low for him to be a meleeist with good potential. Melee fighters make up a lot of Upper A, and those fighters (specifically Terrafin, Wham Shell, Slam Bam, and Bash) should be able to take him out before he can make much impact, due to the HP. Although he has his charge to get away, it isn't as fast as most charge attacks on Lance A Lot, so the likes of Bash and Slam Bam can easily catch him.

I agree with LAL to Lower A. It's only because of his HP. He could use the Burrow Bomber, but it takes time to set up so it isn't as reliable as, say, Sleigh Me! and his regular dash can't do an escape on LAL.
On another note, I think Joust Jockey is Upper A. He's fast, reliable, and his combos are very good, and his actual ability to escape helps his HP issue somewhat.

If we do make a G tier it should be all giants +channeler Double trouble.

Quote: Nibelilt

I agree with LAL to Lower A. It's only because of his HP. He could use the Burrow Bomber, but it takes time to set up so it isn't as reliable as, say, Sleigh Me! and his regular dash can't do an escape on LAL.
On another note, I think Joust Jockey is Upper A. He's fast, reliable, and his combos are very good, and his actual ability to escape helps his HP issue somewhat.

Exactly. He is like a more capable, meleeist Trigger Happy.

EDIT: @Tashiji: I agree. His drill charge is much faster than before, making him greatly capable of dealing great damage.

One thing that might be getting people excited to bump up so quickly is the fact that many toons have been balanced out and in general everyone is stronger. Some took a hit though, but its mostly the lock down blanket damage types. Keep in mind that you aren't just moving toons up because you think they are better, they have to also be better then the competition.

Ignitor's swings arent as clunky, but that doesn't mean Blademaster should automatically be moved to Lower A. Is he able to compete with the Lower A Skylanders. If he cannot, he should not moved.

I would insist all recommendations be tested on the field and not just theoretical ideas causing the adjustments.

I also suggest we place all Giants in S tier until a better place is found. I suppose this is why I enjoy the naturally fluid style as tier naturally form themselves through results as opposed to folks making suggestions sometimes solely on theory.