darkSpyro

Quote: Aquatic Llama

Quote: WUMBOSIMPSON

Show us. Anyways, Sunburn Blaze Dragon is now S Tier or Upper A Tier, because now the 30 damage hit's a lot more rapidly.

Just play the game!

I thought this was what we were supposed to do...

Why Camo's Vines are easy for me to dodge (This is for people who've been asking me this, and it still works for me in Giants):

On Vine Vurtuso, the Vines do MASSIVE damage to anyone it hits. However, they travel slowly and take a little too long to detonate. I always run to the side before they explode on me, and I almost always escape. Plus, 2 vines leave a gap wide open for him to get attacked.

I've seen that Aquatic Llama's thing about Gill Grunt is correct. The flow of his water hose does subside for a moment as the starfish are fired. As Bean Sprout said though, it's so minor it shouldn't affect his tier placement.


Also, does anyone else have thoughts on where Sunburn's uprade paths should be moved?

I honestly don't notice a difference in Sunburn's Teleport. I don't think FL will go up- if anything a lot of Wow Pows will dwarf him even more. I haven't tried BD however.

Sunburn is broken. I'll upload game play.

Quote: EgoNaut

I've seen that Aquatic Llama's thing about Gill Grunt is correct. The flow of his water hose does subside for a moment as the starfish are fired. As Bean Sprout said though, it's so minor it shouldn't affect his tier placement.


Also, does anyone else have thoughts on where Sunburn's uprade paths should be moved?

I couldn't figure out how to word what I was trying to say properly.

Blaze Dragon Sunburn is S tier or Upper A.

Quote: WUMBOSIMPSON

Blaze Dragon Sunburn is S tier or Upper A.

Why? Care to give explanation.

The 30 hit ticks mucho faster.

I think that Hot Head/The Burninator should be placed in at least Upper-A for now. All you have to do is douse enemies in oil, and light em' up. Simple and extremly efective. He could have a chance to be S-Tier, but I would need to do more testing to see.

You lucky little duck.

*Grins*

Hex is S-tier through and through now. Her Wow Pow does 280 damage per hit, and I've seen the skull servant fire 11 times in a row before running out of time. Considering that the move criticals for 420, that's well over 2,800 damage in the span of just a few seconds. She can charge up a new skull servant (and let's not forget, she's protected by spinning skulls doing this) while the old one is firing and deploy it as soon as the previous one is over. All of this is easy to charge up, easy to hide behind bone shields and terrain with, and actually has about the range of her generic skull orbs. Interruptable, but Hex is an excellent defender, so... good luck with that.

I'll say it right now; Hex is a Giant killer, Hex is an everything killer. Sure to be a staple of the top tier for the life of the game.

EDIT: Oh, and the skull servant auto-targets. The blasts are area-of-effect too for some reason. In case you thought you had any chance of escaping...

Wow......... I'm going to go hide in a corner and cry now.

I'm going to buy it and run through the Kaos level repeatedly, then PvP.

Edit: Oh yeah, and we'll upload Drobot Vs Hex!

Quote:

The Burninator

Toys For Bob... SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
Quote:

Hex is S-tier through and through now. Her Wow Pow does 280 damage per hit, and I've seen the skull servant fire 11 times in a row before running out of time.

But it sounds soooooo boring D: ~
In reality though... That's virtually broken enough to warrant a new Hex Tier. Darn. That is ridicule.

Quote: Nibelilt

Quote:

The Burninator

Toys For Bob... SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

Yeah, it's pretty sweet.

My current Ring Out tier list (not Arena Rumble this time), it's incomplete, but I'll fix it later.:

Lord of the Rings Tier: Water Weaver, Both paths, Smash N Bash, Nether Welder, Both paths, Tempest Dragon, Granite Dragon

Rib-Caged Tier: Wind Master, Brawler, Vampiric Warrior, Grand Master Boomerang

Brawler Tier: Blitz Spyro, Melon Master, Battledozer, Crystaleer

Pain Tier: Both paths, Ultimate Rainbower, Magnator

Thumbwrestler Tier: Floral Defender, Golden Frenzy, Earthen Avenger

EgoNaut, I know you've been asking for a while so the non-identified paths, to add to unsorted list, are...
Pop Fizz: Mad Scientist
Ninjini: Swords Of Might
Ninjini: Ancient Djinn Magic
Flashwing: Super Shards
Flashwing: Super Spinner
Crusher: Rock Grinder
Crusher: Rubble Master
Chill: Ice Lancer
Chill: Frozen Fury
Thumpback: Anchor's A-Yay!!
Thumpback: Up Close And Personal
Hot Dog: Burning Bow-Wow
Hot Dog: Pyro Pooch
Hot Head: The Burniator
Hot Head: Oil Baron
Sprocket: Operator
Sprocket: Gearhead
Bouncer: Robot Rocketeer
Bouncer: I-Beam Supreme
Fright Rider: Joust Jockey
Eye-Brawl: Eye Brawler
Eye-Brawl: Eye For An Eye
Swarm: Barberous Avenger
Swarm: Swarm Storm
Shroomboom: Barrier Boost
Shroomboom: Paramushroom Promotion
I don't have any tier suggestions at the moment though, other than Frozen Fury Chill to Upper B- she is the new Pyromancer Flameslinger to put it simply. Though I haven't tested her very extensively in PVP it's quite easy to tell right away. Her ice is designed to slide and trap rather than be a ridiculously spreadable offensive attack. It's worth noting you can hold up the Shield for an unlimited amount of time to block anything from the front, however, which it may be worth placing her in Lower A for...

Quote: Nibelilt

EgoNaut, I know you've been asking for a while so the non-identified paths, to add to unsorted list, are...
Pop Fizz: Mad Scientist
Ninjini: Swords Of Might
Ninjini: Ancient Djinn Magic
Flashwing: Super Shards
Flashwing: Super Spinner
Crusher: Rock Grinder
Crusher: Rubble Master
Chill: Ice Lancer
Chill: Frozen Fury
Thumpback: Anchor's A-Yay!!
Thumpback: Up Close And Personal
Hot Dog: Burning Bow-Wow
Hot Dog: Pyro Pooch
Hot Head: The Burniator
Hot Head: Oil Baron
Sprocket: Operator
Sprocket: Gearhead
Bouncer: Robot Rocketeer
Bouncer: I-Beam Supreme
Fright Rider: Joust Jockey
Eye-Brawl: Eye Brawler
Eye-Brawl: Eye For An Eye
Swarm: Barberous Avenger
Swarm: Swarm Storm
Shroomboom: Barrier Boost
Shroomboom: Paramushroom Promotion
I don't have any tier suggestions at the moment though, other than Frozen Fury Chill to Upper B- she is the new Pyromancer Flameslinger to put it simply. Though I haven't tested her very extensively in PVP it's quite easy to tell right away. Her ice is designed to slide and trap rather than be a ridiculously spreadable offensive attack. It's worth noting you can hold up the Shield for an unlimited amount of time to block anything from the front, however, which it may be worth placing her in Lower A for...

Thank you, Nibelilt. Until I do some more testing, I think we should just keep Chill in Upper B, for now. I say this only because of the slight difficulty setting up the ice wall.

Thanks a load Nibelilt! I'll add those upgrade path names right away!

• Hex Sn2 / (Both paths) moved to S Tier. (Or was I just meant to move one of the upgrade paths? Someone tell me if I've made a mistake here.)
  
• Chill / Frozen Fury placed in Upper B Tier until further research is made.
  
• Hot Head / The Burninator placed in Upper A Tier until further research is made.
  
• EDIT: Sunburn / Blaze Dragon moved to Upper A. (Or should he be somewhere else? And is there anything to do with his other upgrade path?)
  

Maybe Shade Master to A, the delay casting the skull shield is just too heavy to really spam the skull servant the way Bone Crafter can. It's still a super cheap move though, and allows Shade Master to destroy all lower and medium-tier characters handily. She might have a few too many interruption problems with the best though.

Definitely S for Bonecrafter. She was already tough to kill in S:SA, and now she has game-breaking damage.

• Hex Sn2 / Shade Master moved to Upper A.
  

Any word on where Chop Chop should go yet, people?

I'm just still having a rough time wrapping my head around this list. Crusher is one of the main reasons. He is almost unstoppable on many of the arenas because of the combo of his reach, damage, and absurd hit point pool, but other arenas he's worthless because of his speed and the openness of the stage affords no cover. So where do you place him?

Oh, but Drobot took a hit and I completely feel if you are doing this he is no longer a God. It is a lot easier to find a way to maneuver around now that his eye beams cut out to release the blade gear and they don't fire as fast (only a slight lose in ROF though). He is now loosing to characters, like drill sergeant, that previously never stood a chance. If we are insistant on this format, that guy lost ground and should be somewhere in A

Like I said, we'll deal with problems like that when we come to analyse them ourselves over time. This may actually mean that we might, for example, place Crusher in a high tier at first, but then move him down as people point out his disadvantages on certain stages, but then move him up again when we change our minds after new research, etc. Part of the fun of tier lists is that they change alot as the community finds out new things or forms new opinions.

Thanks for the heads-up about Drobot. Does anyone else have any recommendations about Drobot so I can move him somewhere?

Sn2 Medea Griffin should be in Upper A and Pulver Dragon (Both Season 1 & 2) should be dropped down to Lower B (Originally, I put him the High Tier in my own Tier list; but then I remembered I kicked my little cousin's butt 25 times on that path).

Series 2 's Wow Pow is that she can spawn a Super Baby which is much more powerful than her normal babies. It does more damage and can sustain more damage; which is good because the regular babies are weaklings because they do petty little damage and die in one hit.

Pulver Dragon is Terrible in PvP.

Pulver Roll: Roll attack does increaed damage, No it does not increase much.

Earthen Fore Roll: Roll does MORE damage and can roll right through enemy attacks, Again, doesn't increase much. And you also still take damage from attacks, so it's pretty useless unless you're fighting projectile guys like .

Continental Boulder: Bash becomes ggiant while rolling, rolling faster and doing even more damage, Again! Damage doesn't increase much! And speed doesn't increase much either.

Quote: EgoNaut

Actually, LightSpyro13, I'd really apreciate it if you could find out a particular piece of information for me: Could you check out whether all those cool tricks you said Stump Smash / Smash 'n Bash could do (using his Meganut for protection and stuff) are possible in Giants?

As for your other suggestions for all those other characters, you need to state your reasons for why you want them moved before I can consider moving them. State reasons that apply specifically to 'Giants if possible.

I did the Stump Smash test like you asked me too, and it still worked in Giants. I did vs , I used the moves on the Meganut and they did nothing the Meganut and I launched the Nut at 's retarded face (I used the Sun Burst attack, and they didn't destroy the Meganut like how Bean Sprout said they could. The Sun Bursts just bounced off the Nut).

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: EgoNaut

Actually, LightSpyro13, I'd really apreciate it if you could find out a particular piece of information for me: Could you check out whether all those cool tricks you said Stump Smash / Smash 'n Bash could do (using his Meganut for protection and stuff) are possible in Giants?

As for your other suggestions for all those other characters, you need to state your reasons for why you want them moved before I can consider moving them. State reasons that apply specifically to 'Giants if possible.

I did the Stump Smash test like you asked me too, and it still worked in Giants. I did vs , I used the moves on the Meganut and they did nothing the Meganut and I launched the Nut at 's retarded face (I used the Sun Burst attack, and they didn't destroy the Meganut like how Bean Sprout said they could. The Sun Bursts just bounced off the Nut).

Weird. On the Wii version of SA, it did get destroyed. I have yet to try it on Giants.

LightSpyro13 has made me feel that perhaps we should re-assess Stump Smash in general.
If people need something to do, I'd really apreciate it people could use Stump Smash in Giants a bit, on either path, and then come back with any opinions about him and whether he needs to move tiers. I'd also like to hear more from some different people as to whether these gimmicks with the Meganut are significant.

Quote: EgoNaut

LightSpyro13 has made me feel that perhaps we should re-assess Stump Smash in general.
If people need something to do, I'd really apreciate it people could use Stump Smash in Giants a bit, on either path, and then come back with any opinions about him and whether he needs to move tiers. I'd also like to hear more from some different people as to whether these gimmicks with the Meganut are significant.

Ok, I will do that shortly.

Okay. Played Drobot against the top and he went 4-13 with rotating players and arenas. His slight drop in dps seems to turn the tide on the close games. His old version needs to be dropped to Upper A. His series 2 might find a way back up, but no wow pow, no god mode.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Okay. Played Drobot against the top and he went 4-13 with rotating players and arenas. His slight drop in dps seems to turn the tide on the close games. His old version needs to be dropped to Upper A. His series 2 might find a way back up, but no wow pow, no god mode.

I will test him out as well.

Alright then!

• Drobot / Master Blaster (both seasons) moved to Upper A, until further research is made.
  

Quote: EgoNaut

Alright then!

• Drobot / Master Blaster (both seasons) moved to Upper A, until further research is made.
  

I just tested Drobot, and I saw ZERO difference. He still shreds through everything. I can do even more in-depth research, but really, I think he is still the powerhouse we all know him to be.

Just play the top guys, NOT the chumps. Play against the new Hex, Terrafin, Dinorang or Cynder. You wont find a win.

At least not on the stages we were flipping through.

You can also tear through the list with Wham-shell and Voodood as well, but they get thumped by the top. If you are saying you need to defend yourself against the rest of your tier (or at least decent chunk) Drobot wasn't doing that. Sure he beat Ignitor, but Ignitor can hold his own against Terrafin and others Drobot just was dismal against.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Just play the top guys, NOT the chumps. Play against the new Hex, Terrafin, Dinorang or Cynder. You wont find a win.

I don't have any of the S2. What I was saying is that I tested the damage input/rate of fire, and I saw nothing different that what happens in SA.

Watch the bladegears. Gill grunt has the same thing happen. You cant fire two weapons at once with most characters (not sure why this was needed, but it's what they did). It makes a difference. I'm a football guy. It's all about angles. You give me a hole in your defense, I'll take a stab. And our numbers showed it was working. He can't fend off the likes of Stealth Elf quite as well. A little balance may be good.

You could be right on the ROF. I check that out the next chance I get.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Watch the bladegears. Gill grunt has the same thing happen. You cant fire two weapons at once with most characters (not sure why this was needed, but it's what they did). It makes a difference. I'm a football guy. It's all about angles. You give me a hole in your defense, I'll take a stab. And our numbers showed it was working. He can't fend off the likes of Stealth Elf quite as well. A little balance may be good.

You could be right on the ROF. I check that out the next chance I get.

So, are you saying that the hinderance Drobot has is that he can't fire the bladegears and the lasers at once?

Like I said, Stealth Elf is having an easier time because of the eye beams subsiding to cover the angles. You COULD make the case that I was just the first guy to actually bother exclusively matching Drobot up against the top, or Hex moving up tipped the scale to where Drobot could no longer hang, as she was included In the test. But you go 1-3 against the elf, 0-2 against Hex, Dino, and Cynder, 0-3 against the shark: are you saying he should stay up there? These are random match-ups, random control, random arenas. The change caused the test. The results spoke for themselves.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Like I said, Stealth Elf is having an easier time because of the eye beams subsiding to cover the angles. You COULD make the case that I was just the first guy to actually bother exclusively matching Drobot up against the top, or Hex moving up tipped the scale to where Drobot could no longer hang, as she was included In the test. But you go 1-3 against the elf, 0-2 against Hex, Dino, and Cynder, 0-3 against the shark: are you saying he should stay up there? These are random match-ups, random control, random arenas. The change caused the test. The results spoke for themselves.

You aren't really making sense. You can't exactly use your battle results as your only argument because no one is of the same skill with every character.

I actually agree with Earth-Dragon about Drobot. His lasers aren't as "sticky" as they used to be. It's a lot harder to lock anyone down, and the inability to shoot upwards effectively makes the prevalence of multi-tier terrain in Giants a big problem. It's like I was saying earlier: It's all about who has the least arena-based disadvantages now, and Drobot, unfortunately, has a ton of them. Adding to it the new L:15 cap, and with it, higher HP, means dealing small but steady DPS with Drobot is really a poor substitute for something like Hex's rapid-fire 280-damage nukes, which incidentally make her the game's best ranged attacker.

The power structure has seriously shifted this time.

EDIT: Then again, we'll see how Drobot's Wow Pow works. Maybe he'll be back at the top after all, as Wow Pows have the tendency to be game-changers. Any comparisons we're making now are to S1 Drobot, and that has to be noted.

Quote: Tashiji

I actually agree with Earth-Dragon about Drobot. His lasers aren't as "sticky" as they used to be. It's a lot harder to lock anyone down, and the inability to shoot upwards effectively makes the prevalence of multi-tier terrain in Giants a big problem. It's like I was saying earlier: It's all about who has the least arena-based disadvantages now, and Drobot, unfortunately, has a ton of them. Adding to it the new L:15 cap, and with it, higher HP, means dealing small but steady DPS with Drobot is really a poor substitute for something like Hex's rapid-fire 280-damage nukes, which incidentally make her the game's best ranged attacker.

The power structure has seriously shifted this time.

EDIT: Then again, we'll see how Drobot's Wow Pow works. Maybe he'll be back at the top after all, as Wow Pows have the tendency to be game-changers. Any comparisons we're making now are to S1 Drobot, and that has to be noted.

Oh, so it was the lock-on he was talking about. I wasn't sure. I didn't really test that, as I thought he was talking about the rate of fire.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: EgoNaut

LightSpyro13 has made me feel that perhaps we should re-assess Stump Smash in general.
If people need something to do, I'd really apreciate it people could use Stump Smash in Giants a bit, on either path, and then come back with any opinions about him and whether he needs to move tiers. I'd also like to hear more from some different people as to whether these gimmicks with the Meganut are significant.

Ok, I will do that shortly.

In case you own the Wii version, I'm gonna do it again just to see if there are still version deifferences between them. But the Meganut still wouldn't get destroyed by 's Sun Bursts or Melons. But, I did vs and her Roar went right through the Meganut, so some characters can find a loophole around it. I personally feel that is one of the underrated ones ( is also underrated, the only underrated dragon along with ), he's alot better than people make him out to be. My only come plaint is his low speed.

But anway, "Here comes the Smash!"
-Stump Smash

Wait WHAT?? You think battle results shouldn't be the final basis of making the suggestion? I'm not the one making no sense. Data collection and analysis is the basis of any test. You see something that looks like a change, you test it out, and if you find a change in performance, then there is a change.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Wait WHAT?? You think battle results shouldn't be the final basis of making the suggestion? I'm not the one making no sense. Data collection and analysis is the basis of any test. You see something that looks like a change, you test it out, and if you find a change in performance, then there is a change.

Well, yes, you need to test them and get results. But the person using Drobot in your tests could just not be good with Drobot. If you were making a tier list for you and your friends only, then your results would be sufficient for that list, as you are basing it off the skills of you and your friends. But you cannot do that for this list, as their is no online mode. So, we owuld have to base this list off of recommendations and opinions that the majority of players on this site seem to agree with.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Wait WHAT?? You think battle results shouldn't be the final basis of making the suggestion? I'm not the one making no sense. Data collection and analysis is the basis of any test. You see something that looks like a change, you test it out, and if you find a change in performance, then there is a change.

Well, yes, you need to test them and get results. But the person using Drobot in your tests could just not be good with Drobot. If you were making a tier list for you and your friends only, then your results would be sufficient for that list, as you are basing it off the skills of you and your friends. But you cannot do that for this list, as their is no online mode. So, we owuld have to base this list off of recommendations and opinions that the majority of players on this site seem to agree with.

But that could be true of alot of the arguments supported by battle results. The fact is that he has first-hand knowledge at all to draw his opinions from, which is certainly useful, so his statements have value.

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Wait WHAT?? You think battle results shouldn't be the final basis of making the suggestion? I'm not the one making no sense. Data collection and analysis is the basis of any test. You see something that looks like a change, you test it out, and if you find a change in performance, then there is a change.

Well, yes, you need to test them and get results. But the person using Drobot in your tests could just not be good with Drobot. If you were making a tier list for you and your friends only, then your results would be sufficient for that list, as you are basing it off the skills of you and your friends. But you cannot do that for this list, as their is no online mode. So, we owuld have to base this list off of recommendations and opinions that the majority of players on this site seem to agree with.

But that could be true of alot of the battle results people here use to support their arguments. The fact that he has battle results at all to draw his opinions from is still something, and therefore his statements have significance.

I know. But his whole argument was his statistics. And I am not saying that they don't have significance, I am saying that he can't base everything on those battle results.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: Bean Sprout

Well, yes, you need to test them and get results. But the person using Drobot in your tests could just not be good with Drobot. If you were making a tier list for you and your friends only, then your results would be sufficient for that list, as you are basing it off the skills of you and your friends. But you cannot do that for this list, as their is no online mode. So, we owuld have to base this list off of recommendations and opinions that the majority of players on this site seem to agree with.

But that could be true of alot of the battle results people here use to support their arguments. The fact that he has battle results at all to draw his opinions from is still something, and therefore his statements have significance.

I know. But his whole argument was his statistics. And I am not saying that they don't have significance, I am saying that he can't base everything on those battle results.

To be honest, I'm willing to bet that's been the case with most of the arguments people put forward in this thread.
The fact is that this guy has first-hand data, and he seems to carry forward with enough research and experience to hold that first-hand data in context. For that, his opinions are valuable.
It would be different if someone's argument really was all statistics but with no context to back any of them up, as if they were throwing result scores and damage numbers around without knowing what any of them mean.

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: EgoNaut

But that could be true of alot of the battle results people here use to support their arguments. The fact that he has battle results at all to draw his opinions from is still something, and therefore his statements have significance.

I know. But his whole argument was his statistics. And I am not saying that they don't have significance, I am saying that he can't base everything on those battle results.

To be honest, I'm willing to bet that's been the case with most of the arguments people put forward in this thread.
The fact is that this guy has first-hand data, and he seems to carry forward with enough research and experience to hold that first-hand data in context. For that, his opinions are valuable.
It would be different if someone's argument really was all statistics but with no context to back any of them up, as if they were throwing result scores and damage numbers around without knowing what any of them mean.

Well, I am not exactly sure of his experience, though. And I completely agree with the statistic thing, but that is all what Earth Dragon's post was, or at least that is what I saw in it. But I might of not seen the other parts of his post.


EDIT: I just tested out Jouster Jockey for Fright Rider. I would like to place him in either Lower or Upper A. (I am not sure)
He goes VERY fast while charging, and the charge contact damage is 42. The combos also help a lot. The Spinning combo is nice to use right after you made contact with the charge. That combo does as much damage as a melee attack does, and it hits multiple times. The only reason that I would place him in Lower A is the sole fact that his HP is quite low for him to be charging up close to the opponent, but I am not sure if this should be a deciding factor or not. But I am leaning Towards Upper A.