darkSpyro

So, I know people say that Spyro in TLoS series does whatever he's asked without question and I find it funny when people complain about it. But here's the thing, TLoS has many elements of a RPG and with that comes the quest, and basically, if he was to say no, there would be no progress... ever (It was mostly the developers fault in putting him in situations like that and forcing him to say yes but w/e). Now if it wasn't a RPG type of game, then yes I would agree with every statement that Spyro has no control over what he does and has a bland personality.

Better yet Spyro just somehow decides to screw it all and exterminate the planet before breaking the forth wall and killing activision

So?
Spyro still could've questioned it. He could've still had a personality.

Spyro didn't listen all the time. It was only really DotD where he was really obedient. In ANB, he actually questioned a lot of what he was told. And then there was that part in TEN where he was a complete horny rebel.

Yeah, I was mostly talking about DotD and TEN. Especially DotD.
I recall him asking a few questions before going out in ANB, something I really liked about it.

I'm not going to dump all over DotD, which seems to be the current fad.

I like all the games, (don't have any of the hand-held ones though,) including "Enter The Dragonfly."

Each game has it's quirks and good points.

Even the "sacred" Insomnia series had a few faults, for example, "Year Of The Dragon" used mini-games that were already used in "Ripto's Rage."

The difference between LoS and every other RPG ever made is that the characters in those RPGs do have a choice about their actions. You can choose not to do something. You might eventually have to choose to do it in order to progress, but the characters will often have enough personality to grouse about it or give a reason why they actually want to do it.

Compare this with Spyro, who, if he questions something at all, doesn't do so until he's at least halfway through doing it. This starts in ANB and just gets worse as the games progress. And if you think this is just a trait of the generic hero, it isn't. Luke Skywalker wasn't about to go anywhere with Ben Kenobi until his entire life was ripped out from under him, and even then he felt remorse at his loss and was hesitant to embark on his quest. By contrast, Spyro just leaves for the vaguest of reasons, takes everything he's told at face value, and never once looks back with any sort of feeling at all for his own past and the people he supposedly loves (i.e., his own parents).

^ Agreed.

I like tlos, and I still see alot of personality in Spyro.
It's called HELPING people and not wanting anything in return...
(witch is probably the way everyone on earth should be...buut I wont get into that..hehe)
And, I sorta see TLOS as an RPG. (with the upgrading though...thats about it.)

You can help people without being a doormat. And when your actions have worldwide consequences, you should probably ask more questions than Spyro does. There's being willing to help and then there's being just plain gullible (or even stupid). I didn't see Spyro ever stop to ask if aiding in the genocide of an entire species was the right thing to do, he just dove right in because the first person he met told him that they were all evil.

Eh, I still think the way he helps is just fine.

Of course, the world needs mindless drones.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind his attitude and general way of doing things if he wasn't set up to be a role model and hero. LoSpyro is like Frodo: he carries the power but isn't really fit to use it and needs his friends to be his heroes in order to save the day. Unfortunately for all involved, the writers didn't know that Frodo wasn't the hero of LotR and wrote LoS as if he were but forgot to change anything else to match.

Quote: Razz

Like I said, I wouldn't mind his attitude and general way of doing things if he wasn't set up to be a role model and hero. LoSpyro is like Frodo: he carries the power but isn't really fit to use it and needs his friends to be his heroes in order to save the day. Unfortunately for all involved, the writers didn't know that Frodo wasn't the hero of LotR and wrote LoS as if he were but forgot to change anything else to match.

I agree with you.

ya he was a pretty blad character but still keep in mind origional spyro did do A LOT of pointless crap (espeacialy for money bags) and didn't really do much about it either so i think if ur going to complain about him having a bland personality then go ahead but spyro (and pretty much every other platformer character ever made) still does say yes to a lot of pointless things

At least original Spyro had more of an individual personality.

Quote: GagasSpyro

ya he was a pretty blad character but still keep in mind origional spyro did do A LOT of pointless crap (espeacialy for money bags) and didn't really do much about it either so i think if ur going to complain about him having a bland personality then go ahead but spyro (and pretty much every other platformer character ever made) still does say yes to a lot of pointless things

But when Spyro is talking to Moneybags if you look at the dialogue, you can have the option of 'Yes' and 'No', obviously choosing 'No' all the time won't get you anywhere and won't change anything, but the option is there so you can see the other side of Classic Spyro. You can see it in the dialogue that Spyro would tell him to get lost and then Moneybags would just tease him, I think it's quite funny really, so I can't really say that I agree with you on that one.

Keep in mind, too, that old-school Spyro games had a silly, light atmosphere and the story wasn't particularly important. LoS was supposed to be serious and, as such, the characters were supposed to have more depth and motives. Hilariously, I find all the characters in LoS considerably less interesting than even the most minor of the Insomniac characters. I mean, just compare Ripto and Malefor:

Ripto: evil wizard with a Napoleon complex who, upon finding himself dumped in a new world, decides to take it over and, in so doing, ignites war among the various races of that world. His hatred of dragons isn't explained, but it's a nice touch to his personality.

Malefor: evil purple dragon who wants to destroy the world for no explained reason. Basically, he's the same generic villain we see in everything when the writers were too lazy to think up anyone interesting.

Heck, the old games were at least interesting enough to make sure there was more than one female in the whole franchise (there were more girls in Spyro 1 than in all three LoS games combined; after that, Skylanders was a relief).

That's actually a good point. When you really take a step back the Classic games added in a lot of personality to their cast, where LoS failed to do so to many.

What's the difference between Malefor and someone like the Joker then?

Quote: RadSpyro

That's actually a good point. When you really take a step back the Classic games added in a lot of personality to their cast, where LoS failed to do so to many.

Lol, when LoS was actually supposed to add more personality to it's characters. FAIL!

Quote: Jackson117

What's the difference between Malefor and someone like the Joker then?

At least The Joker (or the various forms of him) have had some sort of explanation for why he does what he does: Usually because he loves anarchy and villainy (didn't read the comics, so I'm basing this off of what I've seen). Sure, it can be a faulty reason. But at least with The Joker, a valid reason was attempted, and it also adds to the characters personality.

With Malefor, they don't even really attempt to give a reason why he wants to destroy the world. It's not clear if he's like The Joker and just wants to blow it up, or if he has a secret motive behind it, and as a result, it takes away from his personality, and leaves him as a generic villain, like Razz has already mentioned. Sure, they explain why he wanted Spyro in DotD, but it felt like it was shoved in at the last minute, like they made up all the graphics, stages, and cutscenes, then realized that they have to write a story to go along with it.

Quote: CAV

Quote: Jackson117

What's the difference between Malefor and someone like the Joker then?

At least The Joker (or the various forms of him) have had some sort of explanation for why he does what he does: Usually because he loves anarchy and villainy (didn't read the comics, so I'm basing this off of what I've seen). Sure, it can be a faulty reason. But at least with The Joker, a valid reason was attempted, and it also adds to the characters personality.

With Malefor, they don't even really attempt to give a reason why he wants to destroy the world. It's not clear if he's like The Joker and just wants to blow it up, or if he has a secret motive behind it, and as a result, it takes away from his personality, and leaves him as a generic villain, like Razz has already mentioned. Sure, they explain why he wanted Spyro in DotD, but it felt like it was shoved in at the last minute, like they made up all the graphics, stages, and cutscenes, then realized that they have to write a story to go along with it.

Wow, that just seems very childish from them.

Believe it or not, most games are made that way. Well, sort of. Someone comes up with a cool concept (say, making holes or portals to put the player through and making a bunch of puzzles to solve using those holes), then a reason for why the player would want to do this is created (often times it's sorted out during development). One of LoS' many problems is that the actual stated goal of the whole series wasn't based around gameplay, but rather around the concept that they wanted to make games that looked like a Pixar movie (yes, Mike and Chris have both confirmed this). The rest of the game, play and story both, were created around this goal.

Quote: Razz

Believe it or not, most games are made that way. Well, sort of. Someone comes up with a cool concept (say, making holes or portals to put the player through and making a bunch of puzzles to solve using those holes), then a reason for why the player would want to do this is created (often times it's sorted out during development). One of LoS' many problems is that the actual stated goal of the whole series wasn't based around gameplay, but rather around the concept that they wanted to make games that looked like a Pixar movie (yes, Mike and Chris have both confirmed this). The rest of the game, play and story both, were created around this goal.

Pixar could have probably wrote LoS a lot better, lol.

Oh man, of course they could have! Comparing the Pixar writers to the LoS team is like comparing the Eiffel Tower to some cardboard boxes stacked randomly in a dirty alley.

Quote: Razz

Believe it or not, most games are made that way. Well, sort of. Someone comes up with a cool concept (say, making holes or portals to put the player through and making a bunch of puzzles to solve using those holes), then a reason for why the player would want to do this is created (often times it's sorted out during development).

But to the credit of some other developers (i.e. Valve), they do a good enough job at hiding the fact that the story wasn't thought of first. Yeah, we may know how the story was made later on, but the game is so built around it and blends very well with the story that you can hardly notice while playing.

LoS' story basically screamed "We didn't think about this first", and it makes what they did much more evident, and therefore much more sloppy in the long run. And trying to be like a Pixar movie isn't good, because that basically made me lose even more respect for this game, for trying to be a ripoff, and still failing at it. They should've been trying to make something new, or at least make it feel new.

EDIT: I also should've been more specific, since the story feels like it was done at the last minute, rather than midway through development like you mention.

I don't know about this, because I hadn't played that series in a long time.

Quote: awesomespyros10

I don't know about this, because I hadn't played that series in a long time.

I guess it doesn't have enough reply value so that's probably one of the reasons why you haven't played it again in a while.