darkSpyro

I don't see how one example out of all the games really counts for much (especially as I have a bias for Gnorc anyway), especially given that I have the same stance on the Wywerns and Grublins of DotD. They're about equal to me, personally.

Well, I never said the Classic games had less variety in enemy design than LoS. They do have more variety, partly because they had all kinds of worlds, such as sci-fi and modern military bases, rather than just being fantasy locations. The Old Spyro was crazy in terms of level and character design, like a Mario or Sonic game. LoS, on the other hand, is more like Final Fantasy or Zelda game in terms of level and character design. I like crazy games like Mario and Sonic, aswell as epic fantasy games, such as Final Fantasy and Zelda. I think that's why I have equal love for both Classic Spyro and LoS.

I also loved the apes! They were a comical sort of enemy. In a way, they kind of make me think of enemies from classic Spyro! I don't really mind them being strictly the baddies. In all honesty, they wouldn't of been as funny if they were good.

I didn't mind that the apes were baddies, but it would have been nice to see at least one good ape. When stories declare a race or species evil just because of what they are, it strikes a bit too close to real racism for my taste and that's never okay to teach kids, even if it's indirect.

I don't think they were evil just because they're apes. They just happen to have no good apes in the games. Some of them are just clumsy grunts, so I would hardly call them evil. They're just doing what their superiors tell them.

Oh! Me want to play this game! This kinda remids me of "The Game" When you try not to think about it, except this time its with------

Im going to start of my play by saying:

I think Figment looks a little like Spyro, who agrres? Don't know who figment is? He's this guy!

He looks nothing like Spyro other than being purple and a dragon.

That's enough for some.

Looks a little bit like him I guess.

I think that the similarity ends at the collor, even with that, figment's not even the same shade as either of the Spyros.

I daresay it's Spyro who looks like Figment, given that Figment was around at least a full ten years before Spyro was (and I'm pretty sure more people know and love Figment than Spyro, given that he was a big part of one of Disney's most beloved rides before they ruined it).

You've got a good point about the apes, sonicbrawler182. I honestly thought none of them were real apes apart from Gaul (it's complicated; I make up epic stories about the games I play when I'm bored playing them ), and Gaul himself wasn't evil he was just a slave to Malefor (also, the dragons tried to commit genocide against the apes and pretty much succeeded; like I said, it's complicated ).

Quote: Razz

I daresay it's Spyro who looks like Figment, given that Figment was around at least a full ten years before Spyro was (and I'm pretty sure more people know and love Figment than Spyro, given that he was a big part of one of Disney's most beloved rides before they ruined it).

You've got a good point about the apes, sonicbrawler182. I honestly thought none of them were real apes apart from Gaul (it's complicated; I make up epic stories about the games I play when I'm bored playing them ), and Gaul himself wasn't evil he was just a slave to Malefor (also, the dragons tried to commit genocide against the apes and pretty much succeeded; like I said, it's complicated ).

Something that they should have explained in the games themselves. People don't just wage war for the heck of it. However if TLOS would poke fun at themselves that would have actually made more sense then this whole fiasco that they conjured up to begin with.

Anyway, the Apes, looked more on the lines of Baboons, and Red Face monkeys then anything else. Still, there monkeys all in all .

Personally, I don't mind the writers not spoonfeeding every plot point. I think it's fine to leave things a mystery as it leaves room for speculation. It's why I love the Kingdom Hearts storyline. They leave many plot points unexplained on purpose, letting fans speculate, and then revealing the truth in later games. Sometimes there are plot points left unexplained for years, then all of a sudden, they completely suprise everyone by clearing up plot points, and then introducing new plot points, leaving things unexplained, therefore the cycle repeats itself, and fans speculate more. And it's all done on purpose too, by the storywriters. It may be hard to understand, but if you play the Kingdom Hearts games and pay attention to the story, it really enhances the enjoyment you get from the game, as you try to work out things in the story, therefore, you still are having fun with the game even if your not playing it.

I think LoS does this too, and I really appreciate it, whether it's intentional or not.
The war in LoS does happen for a reason, and we are clearly given that reason, but I would have to ruin the game to actually tell you now.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Personally, I don't mind the writers not spoonfeeding every plot point. I think it's fine to leave things a mystery as it leaves room for speculation. It's why I love the Kingdom Hearts storyline. They leave many plot points unexplained on purpose, letting fans speculate, and then revealing the truth in later games. Sometimes there are plot points left unexplained for years, then all of a sudden, they completely suprise everyone by clearing up plot points, and then introducing new plot points, leaving things unexplained, therefore the cycle repeats itself, and fans speculate more. And it's all done on purpose too, by the storywriters. It may be hard to understand, but if you play the Kingdom Hearts games and pay attention to the story, it really enhances the enjoyment you get from the game, as you try to work out things in the story, therefore, you still are having fun with the game even if your not playing it.

I think LoS does this too, and I really appreciate it, whether it's intentional or not.
The war in LoS does happen for a reason, and we are clearly given that reason, but I would have to ruin the game to actually tell you now.

I love Kingdom Hearts, but really, some of the unexplained parts are just making me go 'Oh man, way to milk this series'. *cough*Xion*cough*

I actually dislike it when they do it, particularly with LOS, as it's pretty much just plotholes.

It's only a plothole if it doesn't make sense in the context of the story. Every game in the KH series is great, IMO, storywise and gameplay-wise. The unexplained parts let people speculate and get more out of the game, until the next installment is released. (Or in Kingdom Hearts, it could be a couple of installments later.)

LoS and KH are not full of plotholes, as most unexplained stuff makes sense in the context of the story. There are one or two plotholes in LoS, IMO, as I can't make sense of those particular points. Although, I don't make a big deal of it. Anything that I ever see as a plothole is usually something that makes up for it by giving me an extra level. For example, in DotD, why didn't the Elders help Spyro kill the Destroyer? This doesn't make sense and is clearly a plothole, but I don't mind, as it gave me an extra level set atop a giant behemoth. The level was a blast to play and was challenging. Basically, the story was a little nonsencial at this one part, but we got an awesome level to compensate for that. Besides, a very similar plothole exists in Spyro 1, but nobody complains. But that doesn't matter to me either, as Spyro is a video game first, storyline second. I know what I'm saying might be hard to understand, as am kind of rushing my explanation, but I hope you get what I'm saying.

Although, if you want a game that is full of plotholes and doesn't compensate for it with good gameplay, play Sonic 06.

Did you see how the Golem whipped all four of the Elders into shape alone? There was no way that they could even begin to take on the younger and deadlier brother.

And also remember that some dragons DID try to help Spyro in the original. They were recrystallised for their troubles, remember?

I meant they could of stomped on the enemies that try to attack Spyro while he destroys the crystals. The Destroyer himself was stuck in that water, remember?

In Spyro 1, the dragons just dissapered once freed. Some of them may give you hints, but that's it. Most just go "Thank you for releasing me!" and then POOF! They could of flown around, picking up treasure and what not. But if they did help, we wouldn't just miss out on one level, but an entire game! So I don't really mind.

LoS fans and apologists, you might want to skim/skip past this post.

Quote:

It's only a plothole if it doesn't make sense in the context of the story.

Man, there is so much of this in LoS it's not even funny. The games were trying so hard to fit all the cliches of a generic fantasy story that they made sure the whole thing was riddled with more holes than a block of Swiss cheese.

* Purple dragons are born every ten generations (AN
* No wait! There are only two purple dragons! (DotD)
* Wait, wait! There were lots of them but I won't bother explaining that! (DotD)

* The Guardians lost their powers in ANB
* ...and now they're back in TEN with no explanation!
* ...but they're useless against a giant evil monster who can be brought down by two baby dragons who have the exact same powers! Yes, that makes perfect sense.

* Let's have an entire level that is just there for pointless drama and makes no actual difference to the story at all (the Dam, the Destroyer)! (DotD)

* Our ancestors imprisoned Malefor before, let's have them do the exact same thing because it worked so well the last time! (DotD)

* Gaul said the apes have suffered at the hands of the dragons. What's he talking about?

* Spyro and Sparx love their parents. (AN
* ...but not enough to give a fart in a windstorm about them. (ANB-DotD)
* ...the Burned Lands are right where the Swamp used to be and we haven't seen any dragonflies since ANB, doesn't that worry anyone else? D: (DotD)

I can go on and on and on with this. There's a difference between leaving something unaddressed for the sake of exploring it later and just being lazy. I'll give you three guesses what the not-writers (they were the producers) of LoS were really doing.

Quote: Razz

LoS fans and apologists, you might want to skim/skip past this post.

Quote:

It's only a plothole if it doesn't make sense in the context of the story.

Man, there is so much of this in LoS it's not even funny. The games were trying so hard to fit all the cliches of a generic fantasy story that they made sure the whole thing was riddled with more holes than a block of Swiss cheese.

* Purple dragons are born every ten generations (AN
* No wait! There are only two purple dragons! (DotD)
* Wait, wait! There were lots of them but I won't bother explaining that! (DotD)

* The Guardians lost their powers in ANB
* ...and now they're back in TEN with no explanation!
* ...but they're useless against a giant evil monster who can be brought down by two baby dragons who have the exact same powers! Yes, that makes perfect sense.

* Let's have an entire level that is just there for pointless drama and makes no actual difference to the story at all (the Dam, the Destroyer,Valley of Avalar)! (DotD)

* Our ancestors imprisoned Malefor before, let's have them do the exact same thing because it worked so well the last time! (DotD)

* Gaul said the apes have suffered at the hands of the dragons. What's he talking about?

* Spyro and Sparx love their parents. (AN
* ...but not enough to give a fart in a windstorm about them. (ANB-DotD)
* ...the Burned Lands are right where the Swamp used to be and we haven't seen any dragonflies since ANB, doesn't that worry anyone else? D: (DotD)

I can go on and on and on with this. There's a difference between leaving something unaddressed for the sake of exploring it later and just being lazy. I'll give you three guesses what the not-writers (they were the producers) of LoS were really doing.

though I'd edit that lil' line(bolded one) for ya cus the whole point of the Avalar level was to return Meadow back,it really didn't make any much difference to the story...and the pointless drama aswell...-.-

also I agree with you *__*

Yes! Man, I hated the Valley of Avalar. It was annoying, 100% pointless, and the wretched bloom effects/brightness gave me a horrible headache. I also got really sick of the music because it took me forever to pass that level thanks to the idiotic drafts ruining our "free flight" that is supposedly so great. >(

Malefor was trying to mess with Spyro's head. Seems he broke the fourth wall and messed with the heads of the players. Reminds me of my TLoS RPG idea.

For the record, Ignitus was the only elder shown using his powers. And even so, he seemed like he was using them conservatively. The powers probably came back to them over the gap in between ANB and TEN, just like the way Spyro got his back eventually. And they were not useless against Golem. They clearly damaged him.(The weird, pulsating darkness that appeared while Ignitus was flaming him. That same stuff appears when you use Spyro's flame breath on him. And the health bar clearly shows that it's doing damage when Spyro does it.) Cyril saved Spyro from being crushed. And Volteer cleared a path. (I do wonder where Volteer went after that though.) Also, the elders are slow and old. The two baby dragons however, are young, fast, hard to catch because of their size, have the fury meter, AND have regenerating health and mana crystals. They also had shelter inside a building, while the elders were out in the open. Not to mention one of the baby dragons had the powers of darkness at their disposal.

They broke the dam to immobilize the Destroyer. They then took off pieces of its body and destroyed it's heart. In all fairness, it's completely normal to expect him to be dead. But Malefor, clever sausage that he is, somehow got he Destroyer off of it's lazy butt using some dark magic. Don't try to make sense out of that magical mumbo jumbo though, it's like trying to make sense out of Eggman's machines in the Sonic games!. If you don't like this section of the game storywise, then look at it this way: DotD was criticised for being rushed and it's apparantly short length. Would the game of been better if those two levels were added to the list of cancelled levels? Even if you don't like the storyline in this game, the cutscenes are skipable.

Well, Malefor is hard to kill. Better to seal him away than to do nothing.

He was probably talking about the tons of apes that were inevitably squished by the dragons during the war. Suffering meaning the families/comrades of dead apes mourning. Not to hard to figure out.

I agree with you about Flash and Nina. Although, he didn't really get a chance to see them in TEN as the Chronicler was purposely luring Spyro to his chambers and in DotD, the Destroyer was on the loose. Although, they should of appeared in the Valley of Avalar or something.

I hope this debate causes no resentment between anyone. From what I've seen, that happens a lot here.

Yeah... Breaking the fourth wall is not an acceptable way to tell a serious story. It was never made clear in any way what Malefor meant, which means it's a massive, gaping plot hole.

Meh. You can like LoS all you want, but if you have to spend this much time explaining things that should have been simply solved within the games themselves, it just shows further how poor the writing of those games was.

But most of what I said was simply stating what was directly told in the games. And the fourth wall thing was a joke on my part. However, if done right, fourth wall breaking can be a genius storytelling device. (Points at the start of Kingdom Hearts 1)

I thought it was very clear what Malefor meant. He's one of those villains that use psychological trickery to send the heroes into doubt. Reminds me of Sephiroth.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

But most of what I said was simply stating what was directly told in the games. And the fourth wall thing was a joke on my part. However, if done right, fourth wall breaking can be a genius storytelling device. (Points at the start of Kingdom Hearts 1)

I thought it was very clear what Malefor meant. He's one of those villains that use psychological trickery to send the heroes into doubt. Reminds me of Sephiroth.

That's a possibility. . . However we still don't know what Malefor wanted out of this fiasco. . . All we know of him is that he wanted to destroy the world. . . why, never been told. Now that's not a plothole that's actually that unanswered mystery that you mentioned earlier.

However, TLOS is chocked full of Plotholes. . . *sigh* I got a bad feeling about this but what the heck. I'll post a link to all the Plotholes that I mentioned earlier in this forum.

Click Search for Post #47 and that's all the Plotholes that I've found. But be forewarned. . . some of the plotholes pertain a certain dragon that is not allowed to be called upon .

Oh man, I went back to post #44 because that is glorious already.

Edit: I just remembered this and it might be a good topic for this game.

I've noticed that, while there was a slight division amongst fans before LoS and when ANB/TEN was out, the division became a massive, yawning chasm when DotD came out. Now it's Classic Fans (Insomniac, EtD and AHT fans) vs. LoS fans (specifically, DotD fans). I noticed it was a lot easier for people to like all the Spyro games before DotD came out (I know DotD was the straw that broke the camel's back for me). What do you guys think of this?

Quote: Razz

Oh man, I went back to post #44 because that is glorious already.

Edit: I just remembered this and it might be a good topic for this game.

I've noticed that, while there was a slight division amongst fans before LoS and when ANB/TEN was out, the division became a massive, yawning chasm when DotD came out. Now it's Classic Fans (Insomniac, EtD and AHT fans) vs. LoS fans (specifically, DotD fans). I noticed it was a lot easier for people to like all the Spyro games before DotD came out (I know DotD was the straw that broke the camel's back for me). What do you guys think of this?

In terms of everything. . . yeah. DOTD was it for me. TEN was ridiculous Frustrating, and ANB was. . . bleh. However, out of all three of them TEN and ANB I can tolerate more than DOTD, however that's not saying much .

I don't mind ANB and TEN on the whole. They were cute and if you treat them like the mediocre games they are, they're alright. It's even more fun if you make fun of them.

But DotD...Oh, DotD. >( I want my $60 and that week of my life back. >(

Woah - woah. . .. $60. . . sister, you got ripped off. I got mine for $35.

Perhaps if I see it as mediocre as you say I might lighten up towards ANB and TEN but, for the record, I never liked LOS to begin with. But who knows, people change over time, its a possibility but perhaps my opinion on ANB and TEN will change as well. . . eventually .

I bought it at Best Buy.

The trick is to pretend it has nothing to do with the Spyro franchise (because, let's be honest, the only thing it has in common with the older games is one word and the fact that the title character happens to be a purple dragon). I treat as a crappy knock-off tie-in, like games made from movies. Even so, the only things that make ANB and TEN better than DotD are the style, slightly better writing, a more appropriate atmosphere, modestly more interesting characters, and it's not DotD. It's still a sad, sad God of War rip-off made out of what used to be a great series.

And I thought it was quite entertaining despite having grown up with the classics, it's the two LoS prequels I haven't played through yet. @~@

Oh, it has nothing to do with DotD not being one of the classics. When I picked up ANB I set out not to compare the two series (they're not even the same kind of game). I hate DotD for being so bad it can't even fit with the rest of it's mediocre trilogy (I should be clear that I actually enjoy a number of mediocre games; LoS was always kind of endearing to me because it tried so hard to be more than average while pretty much following the perfect formula for an average game/movie/book). What I hate about DotD and LoS is entirely to do with those games only and has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the original trilogy.

I know, but having grown up on the platforming elements did make the fighting a little uneasy and all that.

I agree with you on that one, but I suspect even fans of fighting games might not have cared much for LoS. I was really amused/disgusted when I finally realized that LoS is trying to be God of War for kids (no, seriously; just watch the gameplay from any GoW game and compare; it's sickeningly pathetic).

I actually liked DotD better than the other LoS games, mainly because of the graphics, the dropped fantasy like world and some various othr things. It had many flaws, I'll admit that, a few being character designs, others being the main game and ect ect ect..

Quote: Razz

I agree with you on that one, but I suspect even fans of fighting games might not have cared much for LoS. I was really amused/disgusted when I finally realized that LoS is trying to be God of War for kids (no, seriously; just watch the gameplay from any GoW game and compare; it's sickeningly pathetic).

Maybe if LoS wasn't trying to be the "new Spyro" I wouldn't have such a serious tone about it. I've said this once before on a thread that if LoS was a spin-off series or was just its own thing, then I probably would have such a harsh outlook on it. However I can't really tell if that's true or not. Personally I think it be would good for all of us. That way, although separate, we can live with each other in peace. But right now its like the Developers are trying to squish us all together into one category when its clear that there are two sides to this problem.

I played LoS and tried not to compare it to the classics either. The reason I probably liked it was because I like beat em ups(Sonic Unleashed is my favourite Sonic game... yeah... go figure). To be honest, I'm the opposite of Razz in a way - I didn't really like TEN or DotD at first but as I got the hang of everything, I realised how simple yet rewarding the combat system really is. And I love games that do that.

Zackeio, I agree. There are two sides to this problem. I think they should do the same thing Sega is doing with Sonic. Make a "Spyro 4" for the old fans, and make Spyro's Kingdom a continuation of LoS. I will be extremely happy if they do that, because I love both versions of Spyro!

Spyro 4 would be even harder to execute than Sonic 4. At least with Sonic you have a clear set of hallmarks which can be used to define the series (antagonists, settings, enemies, allies etc) Spyro's got about two hallmarks (Some allies [namely Hunter, Sparx and the Professor], and portals), but everything else can be pretty sporadic (not even the gems stayed consistant in the trilogy, never mind the fact every game had a new villain, no main antagonists here).

Quote: Burning Gnorc

Spyro 4 would be even harder to execute than Sonic 4. At least with Sonic you have a clear set of hallmarks which can be used to define the series (antagonists, settings, enemies, allies etc) Spyro's got about two hallmarks (Some allies [namely Hunter, Sparx and the Professor], and portals), but everything else can be pretty sporadic (not even the gems stayed consistant in the trilogy, never mind the fact every game had a new villain, no main antagonists here).

One can argue that Gnasty Gnorc could be a main villain. After all, Spyro doesn't technically kill his enemies, he KO's them. Apparently if that be true then landing in a pit of lava could be like the ultimate Time Out and because of it you'll never come back from it. However, its not like Spyro actually killed Ripto (Or the Sorceresses). . . through is his own arrogance and ambitions, he was led to his demise. . . however the Epilogue in Spyro 3 does suggest otherwise. So in truth, a Spyro 4 can be about the epilogue that happened in Spyro 3. . . they can use that as a starting point to start formulating ideas.

Just use Ripto. He was the villain in most games.

Sonic 4: Episode 1 was mainly based off of Sonic 1, with a little bit of new moves. Spyro 4 could be the same thing. Base the level design off of Spyro 1 but include moves from all the original style games. Also, every act in Sonic 4 had it's own little unique twist. They could do the same in Spyro 4.

Indeed, Spyro 4 would be harder to execute than Sonic 4, because Spyro 4 would be 3D.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Just use Ripto. He was the villain in most games.

Sonic 4: Episode 1 was mainly based off of Sonic 1, with a little bit of new moves. Spyro 4 could be the same thing. Base the level design off of Spyro 1 but include moves from all the original style games. Also, every act in Sonic 4 had it's own little unique twist. They could do the same in Spyro 4.

Indeed, Spyro 4 would be harder to execute than Sonic 4, because Spyro 4 would be 3D.

Hmm, Ripto and Spyro do have a relationship with each other. Out of all the bosses that I've seen Ripto and Spyro were the only main boss and hero to interact with each other throughout the game. Gnasy and Sorceress didn't really interact with Spyro, at least not directly. So, yeah if they just used Ripto I wouldn't mind.

They can do that with the portals. The levels weren't particular long to get through, I mean, you can beat Spyro 1 in less than 7 hours, so that should be easy for them to get some creative level design and maybe some gimmicks.

Yeah, the gimmicks in Sonic 4 were cool. One level was really dark and you carried a torch around. You could use the torch to light lamps and to blow up dynamite. You also got to ride a minecart at some parts. Another one involved running on cogs to activate mechanisms. Simple things like that could really add a fresh feel to the aging Old Spyro formula.

It would be kind of nice if they did something like Sonic 4 with the Spyro series. Though I'd like to see the Sorceress come back, just for larks. Ripto has always been a good villain for the series; he's just an evil little twerp who wants to make everyone's lives miserable.

Quote: Burning Gnorc

That's enough for some.

I know, look how many say old and new Spyro are the same dragon.

Oh, gawd. D: Every time someone says that a fairy dies. >( How hard it is to figure out that two characters who look nothing alike, act nothing alike, sound nothing alike, and who have been stated over and over again to be in different worlds (let's not even start on how the two worlds are nothing alike), aren't the same person?!

Here are the only things Gary and iSpyro have in common:
both are dragons
both breath fire
both are purple
both are named Spyro

That's it! How is it so hard to tell them apart? Seriously! *headdesk*

Ugh, that annoys me to no end.


RANDOM TIME - Something that's been bugging me.

In DOTD, when rescuing Meadow, he claims his leg is broken, so he can't get back. But when you return with the raft, he's found a stick from nowhere and is dragging himself out anyway. Surely between Spyro & other dragon they could have just dragged him back to the village? Or did I miss something?

This is why I don't compare them. They're basically two purple, Fire-Breathing Dragons named Spyro, and not much else is the same. They're in two entirely different Universes, two completely different Genres, completely different Atmosphere and Story. You're not meant to compare them.
What I like to think is.. They discontinued Original Spyro after AHT. (Yes, I do consider AHT an Original Spyro Game) Then in 2006, they created a new Character based off of Spyro, and created a whole entirely different series.

Quote: Spyroo

Ugh, that annoys me to no end.


RANDOM TIME - Something that's been bugging me.

In DOTD, when rescuing Meadow, he claims his leg is broken, so he can't get back. But when you return with the raft, he's found a stick from nowhere and is dragging himself out anyway. Surely between Spyro & Cynder they could have just dragged him back to the village? Or did I miss something?

I noticed that as well....Wait a minute! You just lost the game! You mentioned the person we were not supposed to mention! Hah!

Drat, you caught me before I could edit

NOOOOOO! You fool! You mentioned she who must not be named!

*Hides in a corner*

Yes... SIT IN THE NAAAAUUUUGHTY CORNER! (Supernanny reference FTW!)