darkSpyro

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

It's not so much the shipping though in this case, just constant fighting that everyone does.

Well, the posts I've seen from you don't help with that much. Razz and NEW_SpyroLUVA make some good points and you say it's a "power trip" while offering no counterarguments? Then you call me "dumb" for not liking all the Spyro games? Yeah, not helping with the whole fighting problem. How about you try arguing with logic rather than insults?

Although he does tend to state his opinion as if it were fact, he has said quite a few meaningful things.

I don't deny it. I was simply saying I would prefer it if he toned it down on the flaming.

Again, I agree Stormy.

BTW AJ, when you say everyone argues, I hope you mean everyone, including you. Honestly, we ALL argue at one time or another. Those of us who haven't done so will at some point.

Why do people fancy Cynder and Spyro? They are dragons, unless I'm very much mistaken.

Quote: SpyroCrazy

Why do people fancy Cynder and Spyro? They are dragons, unless I'm very much mistaken.

Heck, anything fictional that's human/anthro/has human feelings is like this. Why do you think some of us have fursonas/dragonsonas for? I guess it's just human nature.

It's probably because of how human-like they act. If you give them voices and emotions then someone'll be attracted, no doubt.

I'll admit there was something about Sparx in ANB. I think it was the voice and choice of words he used.

^Probably more than likely. And it's nothing all that new anyway (just pointing out how old anthropomorphism is and the fact that it begins with the ancient Eygptians).

You're right in saying nothing's new! Everything began somewhere else, or is a total remake of something old. I have seen nothing totally new or original, for the reasons I just stated.

So yeah, if anyone gripes about you being "furry", tell them that at least you didn't make a religion out of like the Egyptians did. =P

Oh wait... forgot about the otherkin. D:

But no no, I think Razz, Masteds, and I (and possibly others) have all pointed out that there is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking something anthro or fictional (like Cynder, Ember, Krystal, Lara, Peach, Samus, or Cloud, Flame, Fox, Falco, Sephy, Snake, Spyro, and That one guy) to be sexy, cute, or whatever because it's simple human nature. Granted, some people (you know him) can take their fantasies way too far, which starts up a lot of trouble, but those are far and few inbetween.

But yes, the furry fandom is very old stuff.

It's often on personality anyway. If someone finds Cynder sexy because of her appearance and nothing else, then we can get worried. I'm guessing people like her because she's a girl that fights evil or something.

^ Some do D:

Okay, I am worried now. That's like fancying a crocodile or something.

Her mouth

It's seriously like saying "Look at that sexy crocodile!" Nobody would! Inter-species... it's not right.

Good point madgirl.

I agree, spyro_madgirl, but I also think some "furry" characters are specifically designed to look "sexy" to people who do swing that way. Cynder is an example of this. Look how they made her proportions: tiny waist, huge chest and hips. Being a girl and a non-furry, I'm obviously not attracted to her, but I can see how some people are, even if it seems odd to me.

Ok let's redefine what a mary sue is, everyone pull out your copy of Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Dramatica plz.

"A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet"." ~Wikipedia on the "Mary-Sue" article.

Now let's list all 3 forms of Cynder and see what types she is best described as:
1. Adult Cynder- Ok, she's cool, evil (obviously), all powerful (even though a little purple midget could beat her), sexy (to others, I thought she looked like a man), scary..... not really though. So what mary sue is she?

An Evil Sue.

"An Evil!Sue is typically involved in some way with the existing villain of the fandom, whether it be as a relative, boyfriend/girlfriend, or any other relationship, but can sometimes exist by him/herself or replace the canon villain. This Sue type is characterized by the stereotypical villain behavior such as sadism, long bouts of insane cackling, and attempting to kill canon characters, usually punctuated by angst-ridden soliloquies. Another common element of the Evil!Sue is some sort of mysterious and/or abusive past, but this is often shared by the other categories of Sue. The only reason it's worth mentioning is that the sordid past is often pointed to in explaining and excusing/justifying the Evil!Sue's behavior, whereas with most other Sues a tragic past explains it all." ~Encyclopedia Dramatica on their article of the "Mary-sues".

2. TEN Cynder- Ok, its been like, I don't I'm gonna guess here (but correct me if I'm wrong), a couple of weeks give or take, and she's now feeling guilty, she's emo, drippy, fat, and a bit bi-polar, so what category can we put her in?

Oh I know, the Angsty Sue.

"This subconcept of the larger "Mary Sue" concept comes in two common variations. The first is a character who is constantly depressed and has a tragic past, frequently involving murder, child abuse, rape, or abandonment of some sort. She or he often feels guilt for something that happened in the past, even though it is usually not his or her fault, which gives him or her the ability to feel bad about something without having done anything wrong. Generally, if she or he doesn't commit romanticized suicide, then only the love or close friendship of one or more canon characters can convince her that she is not responsible for a tragic or horrific childhood or event that was obviously not of her making. Such backgrounds constitute an ill-advised attempt to gain sympathy from the reader." ~Wikipedia on "Mary-Sues" article.

3. DoTD Cynder- So she and Spyro were imprisoned in Crystal, they break out of crystal looking older (something that grinds Scientist's gears to the core) and now she's preppy? Wait, she also has more than one ability (thanks to her eating lucky ch- I mean the POWAH OV DRAKNEZZZZ!!!! (even Spyro should be the one with the most elements and the game developers wanted the 2nd player to have an equal number of elements as well)) and she's sassy, sarcastic (Should this even be considered a personality?) and is in love with Spyro, even though the game showed no CHARACTER DEVLOPMENT!

Cynder degraded herself down to being the Helpful Sue.

"This Sue is everybody's friend, and a natural savior of the day. She heals the hero's broken leg with her expert medical prowess (because at only seventeen she already has her MD), gently coaxes the token kid's cat out of a tree with her sweet singing voice, rescues innocent goats from cruel cashmere salesmen, and gives the canon gals a friendly shoulder to cry on - before, of course, eventually stealing away their boyfriends and pets with her bubbly personality and compassionate nature. But it's not her fault that everybody loves her! She's just written that way. Our pal Helpful!Sue is usually the antithesis of Angry! or Evil!Sue. Often times writers will throw in one of those too, just to give her a nemesis, who she will either a) come out looking better than, or b) change for the better with her contrived fairy godmother ways." ~Encyclopedia Dramatica "Mary-Sue" article.

And there you have it kids, you just helped name Cynders' Sue phases.

Good Job

Uh you forgot Spyro, who is a Sue as well. But I guess since he's a male it's perfectly okay, considering that out the butt suddenly he's all legendary and such, and before that he was jerk and it was all perfectly okay.

And let me guess, Samus, Lara Croft, and Princess Peach are Sues too.

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

Uh you forgot Spyro, who is a Sue as well. But I guess since he's a male it's perfectly okay, considering that out the butt suddenly he's all legendary and such, and before that he was jerk and it was all perfectly okay.

And let me guess, Samus, Lara Croft, and Princess Peach are Sues too.

LoS Spyro is a sue, the original was a cocky jerk that didn't have that many powers (he only had fire at the time).

And yes, I am saying those girls are, don't know who Samus is so I can't say anything on her, but the other are big boobed bimbos.

Quote: Lord_of_Sheeps

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

Uh you forgot Spyro, who is a Sue as well. But I guess since he's a male it's perfectly okay, considering that out the butt suddenly he's all legendary and such, and before that he was jerk and it was all perfectly okay.

And let me guess, Samus, Lara Croft, and Princess Peach are Sues too.

LoS Spyro is a sue, the original was a cocky jerk that didn't have that many powers (he only had fire at the time).

And yes, I am saying those girls are, don't know who Samus is so I can't say anything on her, but the other are big boobed bimbos.

Nah, Spyro was a sue in the originals. Trust me, if anybody else in that universe pulled the same stunts he did, they'd be beaten the crap out of.

While I'm at it, Mario, Fox McCloud, Solid Snake, and Master Chief are Sues. Also, let's put King Arthur and Sherlock Holmes up as Sues too.

Seriously, just how ridiculous is this Sue crap gonna get. Pretty soon, nobody will be able to create an original character anymore.

Pft, most video game characters are Sues. Sue-ness only really matters in games that are heavily story-based and literature, where there actually needs to be character development. And movies, I guess.

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

Quote: Lord_of_Sheeps

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

Uh you forgot Spyro, who is a Sue as well. But I guess since he's a male it's perfectly okay, considering that out the butt suddenly he's all legendary and such, and before that he was jerk and it was all perfectly okay.

And let me guess, Samus, Lara Croft, and Princess Peach are Sues too.

LoS Spyro is a sue, the original was a cocky jerk that didn't have that many powers (he only had fire at the time).

And yes, I am saying those girls are, don't know who Samus is so I can't say anything on her, but the other are big boobed bimbos.

Nah, Spyro was a sue in the originals. Trust me, if anybody else in that universe pulled the same stunts he did, they'd be beaten the crap out of.

While I'm at it, Mario, Fox McCloud, Solid Snake, and Master Chief are Sues. Also, let's put King Arthur and Sherlock Holmes up as Sues too.

Seriously, just how ridiculous is this Sue crap gonna get. Pretty soon, nobody will be able to create an original character anymore.

Do you have any idea how rare and unusual it is to actually find a character that is both original and not something cliche?

Between all these military commandos, cheap money making mascots, and horriblely redundant anthromorphic beings, it is a god-given blessing and most of thse characters don't even have a decent, let alone have, a noticable personality, they're just there to bring in the money.

Okay, so tell me what original is? Since obviously nobody knows...

Seriously though, it like Stormy pointed out, everything, when it gets down to it in video games, is going to very Sue-ish. Seriously, explain how any fat guy can jump 20ft in the air? Explain how a dragon beats a monster 20x his size. Explain how a cartoon mouse takes on a full grown lion? And don't even get me started on physic wonder kids and the "mons" (Pokemon, Digimon, and before them).

I'm really just beginning to think that the term "Mary Sue/Marty Stu" is just an excuse for character that you don't like as opposed to actually having a sound explanation as to why they are over-fried in the first place. It would seem that Sue would fall under these categories:

*Is either really ugly or really beautiful as beyond the universe's standards.

*Has power or abilities that would break the logical rules and bounds of the universe both in the work and on common human knowledge levels.

*Is able to out-perform every character in the work's universe, or at least to score above expectations if starting out.

*Can charm and dazzle any important side characters as well as to eventually be liked by everyone around him/her.

However, it seems like any character who has any kind of plot-relevancy or any mass outside of being a flat-character is instantly a Sue by today's standards.

But I do think though with how out-of-control the Sue thing is with everyone claiming that [X character] is a Sue, it won't before too long that even the stuff of Shakespeare gets labeled as being bad as a poorly-written fan fiction.

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

Okay, so tell me what original is? Since obviously nobody knows...

Seriously though, it like Stormy pointed out, everything, when it gets down to it in video games, is going to very Sue-ish. Seriously, explain how any fat guy can jump 20ft in the air? Explain how a dragon beats a monster 20x his size. Explain how a cartoon mouse takes on a full grown lion? And don't even get me started on physic wonder kids and the "mons" (Pokemon, Digimon, and before them).

I'm really just beginning to think that the term "Mary Sue/Marty Stu" is just an excuse for character that you don't like as opposed to actually having a sound explanation as to why they are over-fried in the first place. It would seem that Sue would fall under these categories:

*Is either really ugly or really beautiful as beyond the universe's standards.

*Has power or abilities that would break the logical rules and bounds of the universe both in the work and on common human knowledge levels.

*Is able to out-perform every character in the work's universe, or at least to score above expectations if starting out.

*Can charm and dazzle any important side characters as well as to eventually be liked by everyone around him/her.

However, it seems like any character who has any kind of plot-relevancy or any mass outside of being a flat-character is instantly a Sue by today's standards.

But I do think though with how out-of-control the Sue thing is with everyone claiming that [X character] is a Sue, it won't before too long that even the stuff of Shakespeare gets labeled as being bad as a poorly-written fan fiction.

How about an example of something original instead.

Sir Daniel Fortesque from the PS1 game MediEvil (a kinda cute play-on words for medival)

His story was that he told high tales of his make believe adventures to the king, and the king was pretty gulliable, that he was soon knighted and became the kings' champion. Sounds like a sweet deal, until the evil wizard Zarok rages war on the kingdom and Sir Dan is put at the front of the lines.

If you're expecting him to go all Solid Snake here, then you are horrible wrong. He was the first to die in the war, by getting shot with the very first arrow in the eye. The king and his people soon afterwards began making up stories about Sir Dan, some more exaggerated than the last about how he defeated the whole army with his god like strength yadda yadda, so they built a necropolis in his honor.

But the game doesn't end there, a whole century later, Zarok comes back and revives the undead, posseses the citizens, and basically takes over Gallowmere. However, Sir Dan is also revived and now goes out to defeat Zarok and prove to himself that he is a true hero.

And as for how a dragon can beat something 10x its height or how a fat guy can jump. It's basically a cartoon that you can control. It's not meant to be taken into deep consideration, it's meant to be enjoyable and silly.

Also another thing that defines a sue is how ridiculous thy are made to be:
*totally perfect in every way
*Their actions are always justified by something either completely unrelevant or plain stupid
*everyone loves them for no good reason besides "Oh she/he is so nice" or "they're hot"

And getting back onto the subject of Cynder, yes I do believe her character is ridiculous, I wouldn't mind marching up into Sierras' HQ and tell them "you either remake this characters' personality, or I will."

(Btw, Romeo and Juliet is considered one of his worst work)

[quote=Lord_of_Sheeps

How about an example of something original instead.

Sir Daniel Fortesque from the PS1 game MediEvil (a kinda cute play-on words for medival)

His story was that he told high tales of his make believe adventures to the king, and the king was pretty gulliable, that he was soon knighted and became the kings' champion. Sounds like a sweet deal, until the evil wizard Zarok rages war on the kingdom and Sir Dan is put at the front of the lines.

If you're expecting him to go all Solid Snake here, then you are horrible wrong. He was the first to die in the war, by getting shot with the very first arrow in the eye. The king and his people soon afterwards began making up stories about Sir Dan, some more exaggerated than the last about how he defeated the whole army with his god like strength yadda yadda, so they built a necropolis in his honor.

But the game doesn't end there, a whole century later, Zarok comes back and revives the undead, posseses the citizens, and basically takes over Gallowmere. However, Sir Dan is also revived and now goes out to defeat Zarok and prove to himself that he is a true hero.[/quote]

I've heard of that somewhere, though I can't place it. To be rather honest, it sounds very poorly written. There's no real explanation on how Zarok came back, making him a villian Sue.

If you want something in a video game that's 100% original, Sim City is probably as close as you're gonna get:

*No plot whatsoever unless you give your city/region a backstory.
*No characters, except the advisers, who don't have any kind of personality.
*No real rules of how things could go. You could build a "sue-topia" or a dystopia.

And even that was based on a book and basic economics!

Seriously, just drop the crud about [characterX] is a Sue and just realize that as long as there's gonna be a video game character who can playable there's gonna by Sue-like traits.

As Shakespeare, almost everyone knows how bad it is, but they still enjoy it. Besides, my personal favorite is the Tragedy of Julius Caesar, and it's full of flaws in history.

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

Quote: Lord_of_Sheeps

How about an example of something original instead.

Sir Daniel Fortesque from the PS1 game MediEvil (a kinda cute play-on words for medival)

His story was that he told high tales of his make believe adventures to the king, and the king was pretty gulliable, that he was soon knighted and became the kings' champion. Sounds like a sweet deal, until the evil wizard Zarok rages war on the kingdom and Sir Dan is put at the front of the lines.

If you're expecting him to go all Solid Snake here, then you are horrible wrong. He was the first to die in the war, by getting shot with the very first arrow in the eye. The king and his people soon afterwards began making up stories about Sir Dan, some more exaggerated than the last about how he defeated the whole army with his god like strength yadda yadda, so they built a necropolis in his honor.

But the game doesn't end there, a whole century later, Zarok comes back and revives the undead, posseses the citizens, and basically takes over Gallowmere. However, Sir Dan is also revived and now goes out to defeat Zarok and prove to himself that he is a true hero.

I've heard of that somewhere, though I can't place it. To be rather honest, it sounds very poorly written. There's no real explanation on how Zarok came back, making him a villian Sue.

If you want something in a video game that's 100% original, Sim City is probably as close as you're gonna get:

*No plot whatsoever unless you give your city/region a backstory.
*No characters, except the advisers, who don't have any kind of personality.
*No real rules of how things could go. You could build a "sue-topia" or a dystopia.

And even that was based on a book and basic economics!

Seriously, just drop the crud about [characterX

is a Sue and just realize that as long as there's gonna be a video game character who can playable there's gonna by Sue-like traits.

As Shakespeare, almost everyone knows how bad it is, but they still enjoy it. Besides, my personal favorite is the Tragedy of Julius Caesar, and it's full of flaws in history.

NO, I'm not gonna just "drop the crud" about this, I just cannot let something like this slip by without my opinion on the matter.

Call me stubborn or whatever, but I cannot.
And as for MediEVil, you look it up on google or rent the game and play it.

It kind of reminds me of an arcade game I played back in the early 90s. And no, it is not all that original (says it was sort of funny though).

Here, TVTropes proves it isn't all that original by listing all the tropes it uses (in which tropes are storytelling devices). A lot of them are older than you think.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Medievil

So yeah, you can kind of drop it now.

I'll read the rest of these posts later.

Nicely said Lord_of_Sheeps! I didn't realize the other two Cynders are sues, but those definitions describe her forms very well! Nice find. I agree, Cynder has no personality and there isn't enough character development to justify love.

I'll admit the classic Spyro is cocky and a little lippy and sarcastc, and yes his mocking antics have gone a little too far, but how exactly is he a jerk? In the first three he didn't talk a lot so I don't think anyone can make such an observation about his personality, be it positive or negative.

Here's some quotes from the classics (Insomniac)

STD
"Looks like I've got some things to do."
"The only one who's gonna be trapped is him!"(Gnasty)
"You're toast Gnork!"
"I'm happy for the dragon kingdom of course!"
"I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my dragon days butting heads with Gnasy Gnorc and his wierd minions!"
"You know what they say 'for every good battle, you need a good adversary' and I think Gnasty, in spite of his misguided nature, was a wrthee opponent."

RR/GTG
"Hey stop staring haven't you seen a dragon before?"
"You got a problem with that pussy cat?"
^That is justified because Spyro wasn't friends with Hunter yet, and the staring gave him the wrong impression.
"Who was that jerk?"
"Hey! Wait a minute! *sigh* (to Sparx)How do we get ourselves into these messes pal?"
"What are you some kind of goat?" <Spyro simply didn't know.
(To Ripto) "Bring it On, SHORTY!"<Ripto is an enemy so he deserves this.
"What a wuss!" <Ripto deserved this too.
"Whoa! Elora, where'd you come from?"
"WOW this is great!"<Maybe he's got a mouth on him but at least he's greatful.
"Where'd Elora go? I better follow her!"<See? In your face though he is, he cares about his allies!
(To Ripto)"Hey Shorty! Why don't you test out that septre on me? I'll stand still, I promise!"<Villains don't deserve respect from thier nemiseses! *sigh* That's what I miss! Spyro used to be fearless, and he was never too shy to prove it to his adversaries!

I see no evidence of true jerkishness. Do you? I don't feel like adding more quotes now, maybe I will later.

Yeah, I agree; I don't think he'd bother saving the world all the time if he was just an arrogant jerk. Arrogant, definitely, but not a jerk, really.

I personally liked the sarcastic personality; I thought it was unique for a hero and kind of cute considering how small and non-threatening he looks. But BlackDragonAJ89 does have a point that it's unrealistic that all the other good characters don't stand up to him at all when he acts this way. I'd never thought about that before, though.

The Serious Business!Spyro of LoS didn't appeal to me as much because he seemed more like the stereotypical fantasy hero we see everywhere (this is where the hints of Sue-ness start showing up, with the whole special purple dragon stuff. But like I said, all video game characters have Sue-like tendencies; in LoS it just mattered more in my opinion because it was mostly story-based).

In LoS, however, Sparx takes on the comic relief role, which I did appreciate at times. I found it a little annoying that nearly everything that came out of his mouth was some kind of snide comment, but still, I admit to having laughed at him many times, especially at the "MORE DOOM" stuff. :P

But I'm going a little off-topic. I can't comment on DotD Cynder since I haven't played the game, but Evil Cynder and TEN Cynder seem to fit the Sue descriptions that Lord of Sheeps provided fairly accurately.

Let me just break this down:

Sues are characters that are perfect in every way.

Example:

The perfect villan/villaness
The perfect damsell in distress
The perfect hero/heroine
The perfect emo

The main type of Sue: The perfect powerful, smart, hott person that could do no wrong

A sue is usually above average in everything: power, intelligence, looks, and health with no other explanation other than just being that way.

Usually, if that character does wrong it can be justified with very little reason or excused because of how wonderful and perfect they are.

Sues, therefore, are characters with lack of bad or neutral* qualities.
-------------------------------------------

A character is NOT a sue if they have flaws that could stop them from being perfect.

Examples: (these are my characters)

Cookie is not a perfect heroine because she has ADD and is generally antisocial with a "bad side"

Kami is not the perfect minion because she's stupidly friendly and nieve and drinks too much

Kitt is not perfect because her blindness, although helped by her instinct in battle, makes her trip over everything within range and fall down constantly in her day-to-day life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Neutral Qualities- Neither bad or good qualities that usually involve a character's ancestry, culture, style, and tastes.

Example:

Cookie says words like "yall" and "ain't" and some country-ish improper grammer because she comes from the southwestern U.S.
Cookie likes classic rock.
Cookie is Christian
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And there you have it. A real Sue.

Everyone has pointed out a good point about originality and sues and stuff like that. I think the real reason is that Cynder appears as a Sue is because there are no other important females in the game.

Only Important Female =/= Mary Sue.

If there were another female or two that could steal the spotlight or do as Sparx does in LoS (provide comic relief is what he did), then there probably wouldn't be a sue factor at all. But of course, most writers in media tend to be either sexist or figure it isn't important that there be more females, in which we wind up with unfortunate implications.

Quote: Stormy

Yeah, I agree; I don't think he'd bother saving the world all the time if he was just an arrogant jerk. Arrogant, definitely, but not a jerk, really.

I personally liked the sarcastic personality; I thought it was unique for a hero and kind of cute considering how small and non-threatening he looks. But BlackDragonAJ89 does have a point that it's unrealistic that all the other good characters don't stand up to him at all when he acts this way. I'd never thought about that before, though.

The Serious Business!Spyro of LoS didn't appeal to me as much because he seemed more like the stereotypical fantasy hero we see everywhere (this is where the hints of Sue-ness start showing up, with the whole special purple dragon stuff. But like I said, all video game characters have Sue-like tendencies; in LoS it just mattered more in my opinion because it was mostly story-based).

In LoS, however, Sparx takes on the comic relief role, which I did appreciate at times. I found it a little annoying that nearly everything that came out of his mouth was some kind of snide comment, but still, I admit to having laughed at him many times, especially at the "MORE DOOM" stuff.

But I'm going a little off-topic. I can't comment on DotD Cynder since I haven't played the game, but Evil Cynder and TEN Cynder seem to fit the Sue descriptions that Lord of Sheeps provided fairly accurately.

But he almost never does that to his friends! Only enemies who deaserve it! When he called Elora a goat, he simply didn't know what he was. It was a child-like faux pas(sp), the kind every little kid makes.
He was really mean/rude to Bianca in YOTD, but that was before she switched sides. I can't think of any time when he was rude to Hunter, but if he was it was probably just friendly irking, the kind of thing buddies and siblings do to one another. When the professor mentioned his date book was out of date, Spyro sarcasticly said "By a thousand years!" Sarcastic though this was, it was also true in a way. The book was outdated, maybe not by a thousand years, but still.

If anyone knows an instance where Spyro was really, truely rude to a friend, or other non enemy, tell me of it now please. (other than the wise crack about being born in the back country, directed towards a steriotype of a Louisiana marsh dweller.)

I was kind of thinking of Spyro 1, when he blows off the older dragons who want to tell him stories and stuff like that. But that's not really that bad.

And the whole Cynder = Sue thing, from Lord of Sheeps' original post on the topic (characteristics that I think describe Cynder are in bold, and my comments are in italics):

ANB Cynder:
Quote:

"An Evil!Sue is typically involved in some way with the existing villain of the fandom, whether it be as a relative, boyfriend/girlfriend, or any other relationship, but can sometimes exist by him/herself or replace the canon villain. This Sue type is characterized by the stereotypical villain behavior such as sadism (kind of, but most stereotypical villains are that way anyways), long bouts of insane cackling, and attempting to kill canon characters, (obviously, but I'm not sure why this is a Sue trait...) usually punctuated by angst-ridden soliloquies. Another common element of the Evil!Sue is some sort of mysterious and/or abusive past (this is the main one, though maybe that's more of cliche than Sue-ness), but this is often shared by the other categories of Sue. The only reason it's worth mentioning is that the sordid past is often pointed to in explaining and excusing/justifying the Evil!Sue's behavior, whereas with most other Sues a tragic past explains it all."

Now TEN Cynder:
Quote:

"This subconcept of the larger "Mary Sue" concept comes in two common variations. The first is a character who is constantly depressed and has a tragic past, frequently involving murder, child abuse, rape, or abandonment of some sort. She or he often feels guilt for something that happened in the past, even though it is usually not his or her fault, which gives him or her the ability to feel bad about something without having done anything wrong. Generally, if she or he doesn't commit romanticized suicide, then only the love or close friendship of one or more canon characters can convince her that she is not responsible for a tragic or horrific childhood or event that was obviously not of her making. Such backgrounds constitute an ill-advised attempt to gain sympathy from the reader."

She's definitely most of this.

As for DotD Cynder, again, I haven't played that game, but based on what I have heard many people who have, she's turned completely preppy and has just as many super awesome elemental powers as the speshul purple dragon (which admittedly is necessary since they both have to be playable, but still). Plus she's all curvy and clearly meant to look attractive to the furry crowd; the number of Cynder fanboys who proclaim her "sexy" is proof enough of this to me.

I'd pick Cynder. Why? Because she'll destroy Ember, and Ember does not have a fighting chance (literally no powers, baby of her village...)

STOP THAT HACKED LONG POST NOW!!!!11!!!11!!!

Quote: Doppel

I'd pick Cynder. Why? Because she'll destroy Ember, and Ember does not have a fighting chance (literally no powers, baby of her village...)

But she can order others to fight her Em' does have powahs

Yeah, she seems like the beloved village sweetheart to me. The kind of girl ppl stick up for, maybe the kind boys fight over. (Save for Spyro)

@Stormy, that was just something young and restless children do. If a kid, any kid is in the middle of something as incredible as what Spyro was doing at the time, they would never stand still long enough to hear what the elders say. Shoot, most kids would only listen if they were trapped inside during the rain.

Ember? please.... shes 8 years younger than him!!!!! aT LEAST Cynder is spyro's age.

PaH! sHe'S a DrIp!

Cynder or ember? Cynder can fight, Ember can't. Shes a wanna be. Thats why I like Cynder.

It's not really fair to say Ember can't fight. She was never in LOS so she was never portrayed as a girl who can fight or look after herself like Cynder was.
If she were placed in the LOS world she would probably be given an element and melee abilities, if she were playable like Cynder.
If Cynder were put in the classic games she would have flame breath and the same power ups as Spyro, though they might not last like the new breaths in AHT and ETD. OF course, that is only assuming that she were a playable sidekick, not just a side character.
What would all you Cynder fans do if Ember showed up in a future game? What if she were playable? What if She showed a loe interest in Spyro, which he returned? What if he didn't feel the same way? Please don't say "CYNDER WOULD KILL HER!!!!!11!!!1!!!!!111". Thanks.

dont you mean to say at the start It's not really fair to say Ember can't fight?

Well, if she did. I would say, "yay, at least she can fight now"

Also, how do you know Ember is eight years younger thank Spyro? In the classics they were the same age and if the met in the LOS world they would be the same age again.

Quote: BlackDragonAJ89

Everyone has pointed out a good point about originality and sues and stuff like that. I think the real reason is that Cynder appears as a Sue is because there are no other important females in the game.

Only Important Female =/= Mary Sue.

If there were another female or two that could steal the spotlight or do as Sparx does in LoS (provide comic relief is what he did), then there probably wouldn't be a sue factor at all. But of course, most writers in media tend to be either sexist or figure it isn't important that there be more females, in which we wind up with unfortunate implications.

Or it could be explained as a all-male race with a sexually confused member.

[quote=BlinktheCookie

Or it could be explained as a all-male race with a sexually confused member.[/quote]

That would be kind of funny, but I think I'm getting off topic here... but it gives me an idea...

EMBER FOR LoS! Side character or playable character in a multiplayer feature, I don't care, we need more females... and we can bring back Elora, Bianica, and Shelia too, but they should keep Ripto out to mess with those crazy Ripto fan girls... I like Gnhastly Gnorc, the Sorceress, and Red better... =P

I actually like Ripto, he isn't my favorite, though.

^I don't mind him either, but the character type isn't a big favorite of mine.

Good point about comparing Ember and Cynder in terms of powers, NEW_SpyroLUVA: you really can't, because they're in totally different universes. As another example, as much as I like the old games better, I have to admit the new Spyro would probably kick Insomniac Spyro's butt if they ever got into a fight, because the old universes aren't combat-centered and don't have special furies and fighting moves.

As for Ripto, he was cool, but evidently the post-Insomniac, pre-LoS developers agreed a little too much and used him in every game he would fit in. -__- I would have liked him a lot more if he hadn't been so overused.

And definitely yes to more females for future games. With a little character improvement, I think Ember and Cynder could be quite interesting, especially in a game togeter. Their designs suggest completely opposite personalities, which could either make them great friends or make them fight all the time (but please no fights over Spyro, dang it! XD).

I don't know about that fight thing, Stormy. Yes LOS Spyro has more powers, but unless his opponent poses an immediate and obvious threat, LOS Spyro would hesitate before fighting, whereas Classic Spyro would just jump in there and catch new Spyro off guard. Maybe that would give him the upper hand. At any rate, the classic Spyro has more fire, and seems like he could be vicious if he wanted to. Let's say, old Spyro were seriously p*ssed at New Spyro. I wouldn't put it past him to take a cheap shot or just gouge new Spyro's eyes out. Sorry to imply old Spyro has no honor or decency, I just think he may be the kind of guy who could fly off the handle and do real damage. New Spyro on the other hand is very rational (not necessarily in a good way) and despite his godly power makes me think he's just a guy looking for peace, even though he is meant to turn the tides of war.

I LOVE Ripto! He shoulkd return!

YES to more females, NO girly girls, wimps, stereotypes or fights over Spyro though!