darkSpyro

Ugh, I don't like PM's Lucario at all.

This game is ****ing amazing.

I think Yoshi's had that victory animation since Smash 64, if I'm not mistaken... <.>;

^He has, but that doesn't mean it can't be a homage to Street Fighter.

Quote: HIR

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Quote: MugoUrth

I'd rather not get either. Ryu, honestly, I don't see being much more than just a Mario clone. In a way, Mario and Luigi are Smash Brother's shoto-clones, but Ryu would have a very similar set to Luigi/Dr. Mario that, honestly, I doubt would have much flavor.

Bayonetta, honestly, I just don't like Bayonetta that much. I'm sorry, but I don't.

How would Ryu be a Mario clone? Have you even played Street Fighter?

Ryu's moveset pretty much writes itself. Neutral B is a Hadoken, Side B is Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, Up B is a SHORYUKEN, etc. Maybe use Evil Ryu as a Final Smash (or one of his GIANT F.U. HADOKENS)? And as far as color schemes: normal, Evil Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gouken, I could really go on here (Although I'd love to see Akuma as a skin akin to Alph or the Koopalings). <.<;

His Final Smash could also be one of his Ultras from SSF4, being either Metsu Hadouken/Shoryuken, or have it start off as Metsu Hadouken, stun whoever gets caught in the Hadouken, and switch to the Metsu Shoryuken to finish them off.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: CAV

^I think with Bayonetta the point isn't necessarily that Nintendo made it, more than Nintendo put their official backing behind Bayo 2 and published it. It's still a Sega franchise supposedly, but a lot of people like to think of it as if it's a new Nintendo IP.
Also if Capcom really does get a second rep in Ryu, some could argue Bayonetta could be Sega's second.

To be honest, my reasoning for not wanting Snake in Smash really is flimsy and just boils down to "because I just don't think he works". I won't necessarily oppose him coming to the game, and if fans want him a lot I can only be happy for them. But I tend to question if his aesthetic could really work in the more colorful, cartoonish 4.

I'd rather not get either. Ryu, honestly, I don't see being much more than just a Mario clone. In a way, Mario and Luigi are Smash Brother's shoto-clones, but Ryu would have a very similar set to Luigi/Dr. Mario that, honestly, I doubt would have much flavor.

Bayonetta, honestly, I just don't like Bayonetta that much. I'm sorry, but I don't.

How would Ryu be a Mario clone? Have you even played Street Fighter?

You have the nerve to ask me, a huge fighting game buff, if I've ever played Street Fighter?

His Hadouken would be a basic projectile like the Mario Brother's fireballs and pills, his spinning kick would be very similar to the Tornado attacks by Luigi and Dr. Mario, his Shoryuken would be very similar to Mario's jump punch, and that just leaves the side special.

There is a way to make him more unique though. His Shoryuken could be chargeable, his spinning kick could go in multiple directions (I don't recall Ryu ever having a spinning kick that went any other direction but forward or stationary, but I know in some of the later games, Ken's spinning kick goes diagonally), and if I recall correctly there was at least one game where Ryu had a move where he charged at the opponent and then grappled the opponent into an over-body throw, which could possibly be his side special. ...Though honestly, even if you made these tweaks, I don't know how fun he'd be to play.

this song is good

Quote: skylandersspyro

this song is good

It's so dope, it's simply epic.

Goddamn I just got destroyed. <.>

but i learned something i guess



idk if that will help anybody, but that's my opinion

After the Yooka-Laylee reveal, I'd prefer Yooka-Laylee over Banjo-Kazooie.

Quote: I-Brawler

Goddamn I just got destroyed. <.>

but i learned something i guess

Reveal Spoiler

when you treat Mac as any other fighter and NOT the monster on the ground that needs to be thrown offstage at all costs, he's a little easier to deal with

idk if that will help anybody, but that's my opinion

Ugh, I just got my ass kicked by Little Mac today.

Quote: Qcumber

After the Yooka-Laylee reveal, I'd prefer Yooka-Laylee over Banjo-Kazooie.

I wouldn't mind seeing them in Smash Brothers, but I'm going to wait to see if Yooka-Laylee is actually a good game before I vote for them. I have a nasty feeling it's going to suck like all anthro-related games I get my hopes up for.

Quote: Qcumber

After the Yooka-Laylee reveal, I'd prefer Yooka-Laylee over Banjo-Kazooie.

Yeah they look so cool but why nt have them as skins for banjo Kazooie or vise versa.

Warning: Language and suggestive themes



But it should be my new ringtone.

That was dumb lol.

Mewtwo's so much better in this game.

I did this

Quote: Mesuxelf

I did this

You fight against Lv 6s though?

Hey Sonicbrawler, I-B claims that R.O.B. is the best character in the game, here are his reasons:

His Recovery leads to great edgeguarding up close or with Gyro

Gyro being hands down among the best projectiles

great spacing ability

many potential kill moves lead to solid options such as up throw, Down Air in midair, Up air, Back air smashes

Do you agree?

Anyone else feel free to lend your opinions as well!

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Hey Sonicbrawler, I-B claims that R.O.B. is the best character in the game, here are his reasons:

His Recovery leads to great edgeguarding up close or with Gyro

Gyro being hands down among the best projectiles

great spacing ability

many potential kill moves lead to solid options such as up throw, Down Air in midair, Up air, Back air smashes

Do you agree?

Anyone else feel free to lend your opinions as well!

IMO, the best projectiles are ROB's Neutral B (non-custom), Bowser's Fire Cannon (Custom Neutral), and Zelda's Din's Fire.

Quote: somePerson

Quote: Mesuxelf

I did this

You fight against Lv 6s though?

Usually level 7s or 8s. When I just can't be bothered on how much 7s and 8s airdodge, I go to level 6 for punching bags.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Hey Sonicbrawler, I-B claims that R.O.B. is the best character in the game, here are his reasons:

His Recovery leads to great edgeguarding up close or with Gyro

Gyro being hands down among the best projectiles

great spacing ability

many potential kill moves lead to solid options such as up throw, Down Air in midair, Up air, Back air smashes

Do you agree?

Anyone else feel free to lend your opinions as well!

Don't know why I'm being asked specifically, but I don't agree at all. R.O.B is mid tier at best. Just to counter the points provided:

-His recovery has fuel, and it makes him very easy to gimp. It doesn't refill after taking a hit either, so unlike every other character in the game, R.O.B can't afford to take a single hit when trying to recover. It's also very slow, making him very predictable.

-Gyro is a great projectile for R.O.B - and his opponents. As a Rosalina main, for example, I can just use Gravitational Pull on it and throw it back, or even leave it spinning on the floor for him to clumsily run into (Rosalina claims owner ship of throwable projectiles as soon as GP catches them). Other characters have similar tactics, and of course Villager can straight up pocket the thing.

-He has good spacing but he's outclassed by many other characters in the game, such as any of the swordsmen, and Rosalina.

-Up Throw isn't a viable KO move anymore, it's knockback was greatly nerfed as of Version 1.0.6. And plenty of characters have faster, safer, and earlier K.O moves compared to R.O.B.

MewTwo's Up Throw is amazing.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Hey Sonicbrawler, I-B claims that R.O.B. is the best character in the game, here are his reasons:

His Recovery leads to great edgeguarding up close or with Gyro

Gyro being hands down among the best projectiles

great spacing ability

many potential kill moves lead to solid options such as up throw, Down Air in midair, Up air, Back air smashes

Do you agree?

Anyone else feel free to lend your opinions as well!

-Up Throw isn't a viable KO move anymore, it's knockback was greatly nerfed as of Version 1.0.6. And plenty of characters have faster, safer, and earlier K.O moves compared to R.O.B.

Down throw Up air is pretty good, and can kill in the 80s.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Hey Sonicbrawler, I-B claims that R.O.B. is the best character in the game, here are his reasons:

His Recovery leads to great edgeguarding up close or with Gyro

Gyro being hands down among the best projectiles

great spacing ability

many potential kill moves lead to solid options such as up throw, Down Air in midair, Up air, Back air smashes

Do you agree?

Anyone else feel free to lend your opinions as well!

Don't know why I'm being asked specifically, but I don't agree at all. R.O.B is mid tier at best. Just to counter the points provided:

-His recovery has fuel, and it makes him very easy to gimp. It doesn't refill after taking a hit either, so unlike every other character in the game, R.O.B can't afford to take a single hit when trying to recover. It's also very slow, making him very predictable.

-Gyro is a great projectile for R.O.B - and his opponents. As a Rosalina main, for example, I can just use Gravitational Pull on it and throw it back, or even leave it spinning on the floor for him to clumsily run into (Rosalina claims owner ship of throwable projectiles as soon as GP catches them). Other characters have similar tactics, and of course Villager can straight up pocket the thing.

-He has good spacing but he's outclassed by many other characters in the game, such as any of the swordsmen, and Rosalina.

-Up Throw isn't a viable KO move anymore, it's knockback was greatly nerfed as of Version 1.0.6. And plenty of characters have faster, safer, and earlier K.O moves compared to R.O.B.

The reason I' asing you is because you're the seemingly smash know it all (In a good way)

Quote: sonicbrawler182

-Up Throw isn't a viable KO move anymore, it's knockback was greatly nerfed as of Version 1.0.6. And plenty of characters have faster, safer, and earlier K.O moves compared to R.O.B.

Dthrow > uair (or anything leading to uair) can kill pretty reliably and at decent percentages. It's been good at setting up.

Up smash can be good at trapping opponents and launches fairly high, often killing.

Down smash, depending on the placement, can launch someone far enough to where they can't recover. Obviously ideal against someone with **** recovery options.

And his meteor is powerful and among the easier ones to pull off in the game (or at least I assume, since I can do it), and can spike at fairly early percentages.

Again, I didn't say R.O.B has bad K.O moves, he has some good options. But they are far from the best in the game, as is the character in general.

Another point to note is that he is a big heavyweight, making it easy to trap him in combos, especially since his air movement speed isn't that good.

You will never see a big, heavyweight character become a top tier in Smash. It's such a huge disadvantage to have in a game like this.

Top tier? Yeah no not happening. But I do think he could be in at lead mid-high, if not high tier.

Please can someone find my replay and tell me how good (or bad) I was (Wii U version)?

Mode: Standard Smash (offline)
Fighters: Lucina (me), Dark Pit (CPU)
Stage: Mario Circuit (MK8 (Omega form).

The message is "How did I do?". I think I could of done better.

EDIT: I just killed a (CPU) Dr. Mario at 42% with Lucina. Second-Lowest Kill %, lowest is 25% with Meta Knight.

R.O.B. Tip: When using Up-B to recover, rapidly press B. It uses less fuel.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Again, I didn't say R.O.B has bad K.O moves, he has some good options. But they are far from the best in the game, as is the character in general.

Another point to note is that he is a big heavyweight, making it easy to trap him in combos, especially since his air movement speed isn't that good.

You will never see a big, heavyweight character become a top tier in Smash. It's such a huge disadvantage to have in a game like this.

If you're a bad player, then yes it is. If you're really good, you can find ways around it. Small and fast characters are only "high tier" because speed***s who think "Speed is everything" upvote them constantly. I've seen some pretty savy Bowser players defeat good Zero Suit Samus players in close fights.

A disadvantage is a disadvantage regardless of skill level when a character's skill ceiling is low. Bowser's skill floor and skill ceiling aren't that high, at all. It makes him really predictable as he can't do an awful lot.

If a character doesn't have a high skill ceiling, then they can't go very far in the meta. Bowser's place on a professional tier list is decided based on the performance of the best known Bowser players out there.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

A disadvantage is a disadvantage regardless of skill level when a character's skill ceiling is low. Bowser's skill floor and skill ceiling aren't that high, at all. It makes him really predictable as he can't do an awful lot.

If a character doesn't have a high skill ceiling, then they can't go very far in the meta. Bowser's place on a professional tier list is decided based on the performance of the best known Bowser players out there.

I'd like to just say that tier lists are largely inaccurate anyways and are usually not even "good"

Once a tier list is made people will see that "character A is outstanding" and "character B sucks" and that will create less variety among players.

How many times have you seen Kirby in Melee tournaments, or Ganondorf in Brawl? Yeah.

Lol, you don't see Kirby in Melee tournaments because he was, objectively, complete crap in that game, as was Ganondorf in Brawl. No matter how good your fundamentals are, you would never win against people using the likes of Fox, Falco, Peach, and Sheik in Melee, if you were using Kirby.

This is of course regarding high level play, not a few casual scraps with your mates.

Smash 4 is still young so maybe things will shift around for certain characters, and of course patches are a thing so tiers will shift around a lot more this time. But good tier lists are a reliable reference (note: EventHubs isn't a good tier list, it barely even classifies as one).

Considering a Fox player would need to hit ANYONE about a hundred-freaking times in order to even have a shot at killing anyone because his launching capabilities are the absolute worst in the game, I think most of the people who fight Fox just suck. Supposedly his Fire Fox move has launching capabilities, but good luck hitting anyone with it. The reason people think he is so god tiered is because "Lol, Speed is Everything."

As for Bowser, he is a character that needs to get in close, but most of the times projectiles are easy to predict and dodge, so you kind of have to go in close at times. And yes, his moves ARE close ranged, but they are still quick and damaging. Also, one trick I might try when trying to avoid with Bowser? Try to get to the side of the stage, then use the fortress to the edge to grab on. Still too risky, if you hit guard at the right time near landing on the ground, you can recover instantly and dodge possible attacks. Yes, big guys do take skill and intelligence to use, but I think they are better than people give them credit for.

>Fox
>Bad launching capability

OK it's not the best in Smash 4 but even there it's not terrible.

Melee though (the specific Fox I was talking about)? Yeah, his launch capability is actually really good, especially when he can literally become a near invincible ball of death:



Also Bowser doesn't take skill to use, he takes strategy. But that means he compares badly to a lot of characters who have a high skill ceiling/floor, have a lot strategy involved, AND have a wide variety of tactics.

Slower, heavy characters do have a disadvantage from the get go. But I don't think it's impossible to win with them. While the meta is just barely starting to develop, I get the feeling Smash 4 could be more balanced than previous Smash games, especially if custom moves are allowed.

Even the current worst characters in the game (Charizard, Palutena, Mii Swordfighter, etc) aren't completely counted out and disregarded.

Smash 4 is more balanced than previous games, but I'd still say only half of the cast is worth using in tournaments (maybe a little more if you are REALLY dedicated and master certain characters, e.g. Ganondorf without customs).

And Mii Swordfighter is completely disregarded in competitive play. He's just absolutely terrible. Even when he had two new techniques discovered recently, one of them was ultimately useless and requires a REALLY hard read to pull off (and when you land it, the pay off is 1% damage to your opponent and them possibly punishing you), and the other was one that Link and Toon Link can already do, and they are inherently better than Mii Swordfighter. Same with Charizard, he's just a poorly designed character all around. I might put Palutena (without customs) in the same boat as Ganondorf, though.

........

I got smash 3DS

King K. Rool has been Smashified!



Speed Art by Chris Szczesiul (First one without Omni himself!)


Music: King K. Rool Medley - RetroSpecter

Look's pretty good for the most part. The head lighting looks odd though!

i did a thing

Quote: LunarDistortion

Reveal Spoiler

King K. Rool has been Smashified!



Speed Art by Chris Szczesiul (First one without Omni himself!)

Music: King K. Rool Medley - RetroSpecter

Make it real Nintendo.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

>Fox
>Bad launching capability

OK it's not the best in Smash 4 but even there it's not terrible.

Melee though (the specific Fox I was talking about)? Yeah, his launch capability is actually really good, especially when he can literally become a near invincible ball of death:



Also Bowser doesn't take skill to use, he takes strategy. But that means he compares badly to a lot of characters who have a high skill ceiling/floor, have a lot strategy involved, AND have a wide variety of tactics.

His deflector only works on certain attacks, plus doesn't even have that good of a launching power, especially compared to Falco's reflector.

If you are really good at dodging things, even with Bowser, an opponent has no choice but to go in and try to attack him. Sometimes there is also some patience involved.

Fox's reflector launches fine, and it makes him near invincible due to it coming out so fast and doubling as an attack, and because you can rapidly re-use it like that.
His overall launch power on his attacks is quite good, and to be quite honest, he doesn't need them to be - Melee Fox can pressure you offstage no problem.

And yeah that's not true at all. For example, it's rare that Rosalina ever HAS to approach an opponent. Let alone Bowser. Bowser isn't a character that can force approaches, he doesn't have a long range attack and he doesn't have fast enough attacks for it.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Fox's reflector launches fine, and it makes him near invincible due to it coming out so fast and doubling as an attack, and because you can rapidly re-use it like that.
His overall launch power on his attacks is quite good, and to be quite honest, he doesn't need them to be - Melee Fox can pressure you offstage no problem.

And yeah that's not true at all. For example, it's rare that Rosalina ever HAS to approach an opponent. Let alone Bowser. Bowser isn't a character that can force approaches, he doesn't have a long range attack and he doesn't have fast enough attacks for it.

Both of his custom neutral b's and the dashing grab. That at least gives him some approach options other than dash attack.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Fox's reflector launches fine, and it makes him near invincible due to it coming out so fast and doubling as an attack, and because you can rapidly re-use it like that.
His overall launch power on his attacks is quite good, and to be quite honest, he doesn't need them to be - Melee Fox can pressure you offstage no problem.

And yeah that's not true at all. For example, it's rare that Rosalina ever HAS to approach an opponent. Let alone Bowser. Bowser isn't a character that can force approaches, he doesn't have a long range attack and he doesn't have fast enough attacks for it.

Rosalina cannot rely entirely on Luma. If Luma dies, she either HAS to go in or dodge the whole time. Yes, you will usually have to move Bowser a little, but overall the most effect means of attack is to go in and wail on the opponent. You may think Bowser cannot dodge shots forever, but there really aren't any projectiles with good launching power that aren't easy to predict.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Fox's reflector launches fine, and it makes him near invincible due to it coming out so fast and doubling as an attack, and because you can rapidly re-use it like that.
His overall launch power on his attacks is quite good, and to be quite honest, he doesn't need them to be - Melee Fox can pressure you offstage no problem.

And yeah that's not true at all. For example, it's rare that Rosalina ever HAS to approach an opponent. Let alone Bowser. Bowser isn't a character that can force approaches, he doesn't have a long range attack and he doesn't have fast enough attacks for it.

Rosalina cannot rely entirely on Luma. If Luma dies, she either HAS to go in or dodge the whole time. Yes, you will usually have to move Bowser a little, but overall the most effect means of attack is to go in and wail on the opponent. You may think Bowser cannot dodge shots forever, but there really aren't any projectiles with good launching power that aren't easy to predict.

18 seconds of dodging isn't that hard.

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Fox's reflector launches fine, and it makes him near invincible due to it coming out so fast and doubling as an attack, and because you can rapidly re-use it like that.
His overall launch power on his attacks is quite good, and to be quite honest, he doesn't need them to be - Melee Fox can pressure you offstage no problem.

And yeah that's not true at all. For example, it's rare that Rosalina ever HAS to approach an opponent. Let alone Bowser. Bowser isn't a character that can force approaches, he doesn't have a long range attack and he doesn't have fast enough attacks for it.

Rosalina cannot rely entirely on Luma. If Luma dies, she either HAS to go in or dodge the whole time. Yes, you will usually have to move Bowser a little, but overall the most effect means of attack is to go in and wail on the opponent. You may think Bowser cannot dodge shots forever, but there really aren't any projectiles with good launching power that aren't easy to predict.

18 seconds of dodging isn't that hard.

That's why you make predictions.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Fox's reflector launches fine, and it makes him near invincible due to it coming out so fast and doubling as an attack, and because you can rapidly re-use it like that.
His overall launch power on his attacks is quite good, and to be quite honest, he doesn't need them to be - Melee Fox can pressure you offstage no problem.

And yeah that's not true at all. For example, it's rare that Rosalina ever HAS to approach an opponent. Let alone Bowser. Bowser isn't a character that can force approaches, he doesn't have a long range attack and he doesn't have fast enough attacks for it.

Rosalina cannot rely entirely on Luma. If Luma dies, she either HAS to go in or dodge the whole time. Yes, you will usually have to move Bowser a little, but overall the most effect means of attack is to go in and wail on the opponent. You may think Bowser cannot dodge shots forever, but there really aren't any projectiles with good launching power that aren't easy to predict.

As a Rosalina main since launch, that's absolutely not true. Rosalina can still just wait for Bowser to approach if she wants to and start punishing him even without Luma. She still out ranges him, she still outmaneuvers him, and still attacks faster than him. Bowser is pretty much bending to her will the entire time in the match up. Even if Rosalina wants to go in, that's no problem, she can juggle and combo him for days.

Also that Fireball custom is completely useless against Rosalina too, as she can just GP it.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Fox's reflector launches fine, and it makes him near invincible due to it coming out so fast and doubling as an attack, and because you can rapidly re-use it like that.
His overall launch power on his attacks is quite good, and to be quite honest, he doesn't need them to be - Melee Fox can pressure you offstage no problem.

And yeah that's not true at all. For example, it's rare that Rosalina ever HAS to approach an opponent. Let alone Bowser. Bowser isn't a character that can force approaches, he doesn't have a long range attack and he doesn't have fast enough attacks for it.

Rosalina cannot rely entirely on Luma. If Luma dies, she either HAS to go in or dodge the whole time. Yes, you will usually have to move Bowser a little, but overall the most effect means of attack is to go in and wail on the opponent. You may think Bowser cannot dodge shots forever, but there really aren't any projectiles with good launching power that aren't easy to predict.

As a Rosalina main since launch, that's absolutely not true. Rosalina can still just wait for Bowser to approach if she wants to and start punishing him even without Luma. She still out ranges him, she still outmaneuvers him, and still attacks faster than him. Bowser is pretty much bending to her will the entire time in the match up. Even if Rosalina wants to go in, that's no problem, she can juggle and combo him for days.

Also that Fireball custom is completely useless against Rosalina too, as she can just GP it.

People think it's all about speed, yet they fail to realize it's surprisingly irrelevant. When it all comes down to it, it doesn't matter how fast your character is: there's always a way to predict and counter moves, unless you're in a state that leaves you open, in which case even not-so-fast moves can effect you.

And yes, it IS true. Even if Rosalina has all that, what really matters is the strategy, as a good Bowser player can STILL find an opening in Rosalina's moves, even if the person playing as Rosalina is really good. And no matter how fast or whatever bullcrap Rosalina is, Bowser is still much more powerful than her. People seem to think "Oh he's big and slow, he can kill people in only a few hits but he's big and slow so he's useless," when it's really not true. People seem to think this way because all they ever fight against who use Bowser are scrubs, so they assume he can't do crap to the "oh-so godly fast characters."

And one more thing about Fox, just about every character in Melee had a way to get around his reflector. Also, it's so called good launching power that you mentioned? I went back to play Melee, and I found it's completely fabricated. Your opponent's hit percentage would have to be ridiculously high for it to even have a chance at killing people.