darkSpyro

Quote: TheLurk

Quote: GhostRoaster

Their target market barely knows how to spell or navigate a board site. I'm guessing they write off much written here because most of us are the older gamers and collectors (you know, the segment of their community that they are very pleased to have but really don't give a rat's behind about).

Hmm...that's interesting. Considering that enough people on here are vocal about being Skylander fans' parents as well as fans themselves. I would think they'd consider the insight of parents into their calculations, if only to avoid buyer fatigue and alienating them.

They should, but frankly its an easy enough issue to see - they more than likely don't need to review this board to understand where parent's heads (and wallets are). I doubt there is anything we could say that would surprise an 'engine' as large as Activision. They more than likely pay people to calculate that based on formulas. They know reposes aren't 'favored' - which is why they package them the way they do. I also expect them to do something in the next one to try and offset this to make reposes more attractive as they are sitting on shelves now.
- Unreall

i dreamed up (literally, this was in my dream last night) a crazy idea.

characters could be like bionicles, so you could make your own.

Quote: ZapNorris

i dreamed up (literally, this was in my dream last night) a crazy idea.

characters could be like bionicles, so you could make your own.

Swap Force was going to be like that, but their focus group kept putting the wrong pieces on the wrong parts of the Skylander so they didn't work properly.

Were they having kids under 8 test the darn things or did they find the dumbest 8 year olds they could?

i'd be a pretty cool thing to have. but they's be big pieces so kids can't choke.

Quote: shadowfox

Were they having kids under 8 test the darn things or did they find the dumbest 8 year olds they could?

You say that to any game developer, and they will laugh at you. If the focus group have an issue, then it's a legitimate issue that needs to be addressed. If a developer just turns around and says "oh, well they're just stupid" then what was the point in having the focus group?

i made a topic for an idea for a game like that.

i'd be aimed at ages 10+

Quote: shadowfox

Were they having kids under 8 test the darn things or did they find the dumbest 8 year olds they could?

I'm sure they were having 6 year olds test it as the game is 6+, and developmentally speaking there's a large difference in 6 and 8 year olds. Also he's right, if the problem pops up in focus groups it needs to be addressed no matter how you feel the results are skewed. I think they had normal 6 year old children in testing, most of the Lego sets I just looked up had an age range of 8 to 10 on the low end to around the 14 range on the top end. The thing you need to realize is that they have to test and rate the game with the lowest age range in mind.
It's great that you want more from the franchise, just temper your dream with the age restrictions in place. They have set the target audience at the 6+ range and said that they want to remain in that range. With that said there is room to grow and stay in this range, more and better story telling is the place they could easily grow and please both the target age group as well as the adults and older siblings that play the game with them.

Quote: gta1134

Quote: shadowfox

Were they having kids under 8 test the darn things or did they find the dumbest 8 year olds they could?

I'm sure they were having 6 year olds test it as the game is 6+, and developmentally speaking there's a large difference in 6 and 8 year olds. Also he's right, if the problem pops up in focus groups it needs to be addressed no matter how you feel the results are skewed. I think they had normal 6 year old children in testing, most of the Lego sets I just looked up had an age range of 8 to 10 on the low end to around the 14 range on the top end. The thing you need to realize is that they have to test and rate the game with the lowest age range in mind.
It's great that you want more from the franchise, just temper your dream with the age restrictions in place. They have set the target audience at the 6+ range and said that they want to remain in that range. With that said there is room to grow and stay in this range, more and better story telling is the place they could easily grow and please both the target age group as well as the adults and older siblings that play the game with them.

Face reality that their target market is going to seriously limit where they take this franchise. It's not like gamers are generally getting more intelligent over time. A test study concluded that some players couldn't figure out the basic mechanics behind Super Mario Brothers.

Quote: ZapNorris

i'd be a pretty cool thing to have. but they's be big pieces so kids can't choke.

My concern is less 'important' than that, but something just as real.

Kids LOSING those parts. My son will displace a bottom half in five minutes. The last thing I want to deal with is going through a vacuum bag trying to find someone's 'arm' I mean I like the idea if everything was just downloaded - like the 3DS version, but keeping track of it all would be a nightmare. Oh and of course you'd STEP on them...and while grabbing your foot and hopping up and down, you'll step on another piece or a lego...


Just tops and bottoms was a 'good' compromise...
- Unreall

There was a test study to see if people could grasp the mechanics of super mario brothers? I'd like to see these test results you speak of. Even if a study such as that existed I question how that would have anything to do with this conversation. Study statistics can and are easily skewed to whatever side the administer wants the results to end up on.

Focus groups on the other hand are put on by companies to deem the feasibility of something selling or not. These groups findings will likely never see the light of day outside of the company unless someone thinks they can get away with breaking a nondisclosure agreement. They are also slimmed down to the target audience so it's not like they are trying to focus group some 6 year old boys with barbie dolls(some play with them and that's fine but you would never see Mattel using data from that group and saying "these will never sell, scrap the idea").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

for the game study http://hothardware.com/News/Ni...spx?PageIndex=2 But I doubt it is real because how can people be that stupid?
Plus I did the challenge and I finished level 1-1 without dying, maybe because I know the pipe passage or the meulator I was playing was slow

You have to learn how to jump, you have to learn how to aim and shoot, you have to learn how to find items, learn how to do puzzles. YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES! The major downside of the skylanders series to me is that they freakin hold your hand till it turns white. Where is the key? Let's pan and show you exactly where it is. It's a linear game finding the key isnt that hard. OMG it took the kid 5 extra minutes to find the darn thing you dont need to give them a cheat sheet. 8 years olds shouldnt be that dumb that they cant figure it out. It's instant gratification at the worst. I can't see the answer so this game is boring or I need mommy or daddys help. A learning curve is expected with any new game, but come on people you gotta at least try and expect that youll die a few times or *gasp* it might take a day or two to figure out how to beat a level. There is nothing wrong with that concept. Boss battles are not supposed to be easy, levels should take a few runs to be perfected. Collectibles should be difficult to find not I found them all my first time through the level. But why make kids think and learn? Why make people think and learn? Because thats too hard. grumble grumble

Quote: shadowfox

You have to learn how to jump, you have to learn how to aim and shoot, you have to learn how to find items, learn how to do puzzles. YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES! The major downside of the skylanders series to me is that they freakin hold your hand till it turns white. Where is the key? Let's pan and show you exactly where it is. It's a linear game finding the key isnt that hard. OMG it took the kid 5 extra minutes to find the darn thing you dont need to give them a cheat sheet. 8 years olds shouldnt be that dumb that they cant figure it out. It's instant gratification at the worst. I can't see the answer so this game is boring or I need mommy or daddys help. A learning curve is expected with any new game, but come on people you gotta at least try and expect that youll die a few times or *gasp* it might take a day or two to figure out how to beat a level. There is nothing wrong with that concept. Boss battles are not supposed to be easy, levels should take a few runs to be perfected. Collectibles should be difficult to find not I found them all my first time through the level. But why make kids think and learn? Why make people think and learn? Because thats too hard. grumble grumble

I agree with you completely about things like the key and panning camera, but not so much on the sheer difficulty of enemies. Players can choose the difficulty like in many games going back decades. Nightmare, which maybe should be available from the start and not unlocked, isn't a total breeze.

Maybe I'm the odd ball with nightmare, it was too easy for me. The AI didnt change at all and the enemies are stupid easy for me personally to dodge. All it does is take longer to kill them which is not necessarily a higher difficulty if you have the ability to dodge. If they did more than oh the bad guy is charging up get out of the way or gave them more than 1 attack, and sadly those attacks are copied throughout the rest of the game by reskinned characters so after level 1 you seen almost all of your enemy types and by the third I believe you have seen them all. It might actually be difficult.

Quote: nitendofan92

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

for the game study http://hothardware.com/News/Ni...spx?PageIndex=2 But I doubt it is real because how can people be that stupid?
Plus I did the challenge and I finished level 1-1 without dying, maybe because I know the pipe passage or the meulator I was playing was slow

The top of that source article shows that it's fake, it says in an update:

It has been brought to our attention that the source reference site's report for this story was actually based on a satire, not based on facts.

There is an art to designing games so players can figure out things and learn mechanics without them being explained explicitly in a tutorial text box or something. Mario is famous for this, things like in the very first screen, the placement of the blocks and the Mushroom power up are very carefully placed so the player without attempting will likely trigger it and then run into it to learn that it is a positive effect item instead of an enemy.

Ok a couple things, the first of the two links you provided first shows what happens when you skew or ignore results of focus tests and the second out right says that this "study" about mario is pure fiction. So I guess thanks for making my point on those for me.
The second thing that I still think people are missing is that this game and it's entire genre is outright pointed at an age bracket many of us do not fall into (unless of course we have children) wanting to shoe horn what would make it a great game for your age bracket is just not going to happen as stated by the publisher themselves.
Also pointing out that you can walk through nightmare mode is great but really if you are out of the age range then it's like saying "I dominated that game of basketball!!!" when you were playing with 5 year olds and you are 25. The difficulty of the game is entirely based upon the target players.
As to the current trend to cater toward the instant gratification crowd, it is unfortunately where much of the gaming industry is headed. Long gone are the days where you played for months on end to get a big shiny sword that proved your devotion to the game, now they sell them in the cash shops. Sure many games have that extra special little nuggets to go for but many times they are just reskinned versions of things you buy in said cash shop.
My apologies for going off on a tangent there.

To be honest I hope that the games are everything you want them to be but temper your expectations. The only thing that irks me is the tendency for people to say "Nightmare mode is easy for me so you all must be stupid", things that come easy for some people are very difficult for others and this does not make them stupid. The game is targeted at a 6+ range, meaning that very likely this is the child's first introduction to gaming. So while for seasoned players the "Hey the key is this way" approach is annoying it should be understandable. Either the developer or the publisher (I don't recall which) said very plainly that they know where the target audience is and are ok with losing people that grow out of the said range.

I apologize for the long post

Btw I didnt post the article that was some one else


I said that I was the odd ball to nightmare mode and that I was different, that was a response to another persons comment. My point was that the game dosent treat 8 year olds like 8 years old, it treats them like 3. When I was in the target age range, me and all my classmates who played video games were playing way more difficult games and not having an issue. They dont really have any thinking involved with the core game mechanics of skylanders. Most puzzles have the answer shown in a blatant manner. Difficulties and levels can be beaten flawlessly in less than an hour of the first time playing. There is no need to try with this game. It dosent even challenge the player to learn something new. 8 years old dose not mean they lack cognitive skills.

Chiming in to address the inevitable "quality vs. annual installments" business.

I'm not sure a lot of people know this, but Vicarious Visions started work on SWAP Force a few weeks BEFORE Spyro's Adventure was even released. Since Toys For Bob is back for game #4, it's safe to assume they've been working on it since they finished Giants. I'm unconcerned the new game will be a slapdash hack job, but I am worried about TFB's stance on jumping. I'm not sure I'll go for #4 if we can't jump.

Just FYI.

They can't take jumping away!!!

I do agree it's too easy, even for an 8 year old. The difficulty should do more than make them a bit harder to kill. Puzzles should also get harder.

Quote: vinzclortho37

Chiming in to address the inevitable "quality vs. annual installments" business.

I'm not sure a lot of people know this, but Vicarious Visions started work on SWAP Force a few weeks BEFORE Spyro's Adventure was even released. Since Toys For Bob is back for game #4, it's safe to assume they've been working on it since they finished Giants. I'm unconcerned the new game will be a slapdash hack job, but I am worried about TFB's stance on jumping. I'm not sure I'll go for #4 if we can't jump.

Just FYI.

Quote: Pyrofer

They can't take jumping away!!!

I do agree it's too easy, even for an 8 year old. The difficulty should do more than make them a bit harder to kill. Puzzles should also get harder.

They won't take away jumping. It'd be inconsistent with Swap Force. If TfB kept their stance of jumping for the 4th game, why would they allow it in Swap Force?

The recommended age is 6+ not 8 and there's a large developmental gap there.

My post was in response to two separate people, sorry if that wasn't clear.

A new interview at Toys for Bob co-founder, wich "reveals" some more details about the upcoming game:

http://www.oneofswords.com/com...rs#.UyTTfWt5mSO

They really are pushing this idea that Skylanders 4 will be so different from the rest of the series aren't they... And you know what? At this point, I'm kind of inclined to trust them.

Hyping a game when it's been announced before release? Easily just to shift units of the game. Then when the hype doesn't live up to the final release, people will call it out but by this point we've given them their money.

Hyping a game before it's even been announced? I dunno... Sounds like they really do expect us to find it amazing. After all the moment we see it and it's not as "amazing" as we expected, we'll turn around and call that out. And at that point we haven't given them any money for it, so it's their own loss if their hype doesn't live up to the announcement.

Playing devils advocate here but the hype train coupled with the fact they didn't reveal it at Toyfair could also mean that the figures haven't sold as well and they are trying to get people interested enough to buy the stock that's laying around.
Now I honestly don't think that they would shoot themselves in the foot like this but it is possible, we've seen companies do dumb things like that before.

Sounds promising.

"really trying to take a giant leap forward both in terms of gameplay and hardware"

This sounds like what we all need Some of the things they are saying are beyond normal hype. It is clear they have stuff in store. It sounds to me like new "features" in the figures as well as the game.

Interest level raised.

Can't wait! Hopefully the graphics will be even BETTER than Swap Force.

wait and see

Quote: Drek95

A new interview at Toys for Bob co-founder, wich "reveals" some more details about the upcoming game:

http://www.oneofswords.com/com...rs#.UyTTfWt5mSO

What I got was a hinting of "expansion" and that they are really trying to take our experience with the toys and the game further--something that simply wasn't achieved with Swap Force at the "toys to life" level. They did much for innovation and technology, but my heart is in TfB's vision. I trust them implicitly.

I realized that the alchemy engine that TfB used in Giants was owned by VV, so clearly the collaboration (and competition) between the two has been going on for some time now. I feel good about the franchise in either hands, but as of now prefer TfB's take.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Quote: Drek95

A new interview at Toys for Bob co-founder, wich "reveals" some more details about the upcoming game:

http://www.oneofswords.com/com...rs#.UyTTfWt5mSO

What I got was a hinting of "expansion" and that they are really trying to take our experience with the toys and the game further--something that simply wasn't achieved with Swap Force at the "toys to life" level. They did much for innovation and technology, but my heart is in TfB's vision. I trust them implicitly.

I realized that the alchemy engine that TfB used in Giants was owned by VV, so clearly the collaboration (and competition) between the two has been going on for some time now. I feel good about the franchise in either hands, but as of now prefer TfB's take.

He also seemed to make a point of saying heroic a lot, but I could be trying to read into that.

Well TFB made the whole thing, so I think we are reasonably safe to say they will do some good with the new one

I wouldn't say I am "worried" about the game or it's potential sales. I am hopeful that it will better fit what myself and family want from it however.
Reading the info from TFB has made me feel better about what 4 may contain, my interest had definitely waned during the Swap Force year, my kids too. They hardly play now.

It goes without saying that graphically the game will be an improvement. I assume the Wii will be dropped or simply be a different game? I don't see how it could hold up against the current consoles now, that said maybe the installed user base will hold the Wii up for another round of sales. After getting Giants on the Wii and SF on the 360 instead of the Wii I wouldn't want to be a Wii only player! I have a WiiU now so that will be what I get Skylanders 4 on.

I refuse to use the word 'worried' when it comes to something that absorbs so much money (I bought trap & freeze from TRU and it was friggin 34 bux for just two figures). Part of me wouldn't mind an excuse to cut back, but the lack of forth coming information at this point is making me a little leery. Give us SOMETHING. At this point we shouldn't still be analyzing 'Megablocks' for information - for a 'yearly' release that's been in development since Giants.
- Unreall

pyrofer funny thing i have only the wii but the wii has sold more starter packs from these three games than any other system so i don't see how they would drop it just because vv did not want to work on it so they are probably never going to drop it

It's not a matter of "wanting" to drop it, I don't see how they can maintain parity with the Wii version and the other consoles.

I think just like the xDS versions it will have to be a different game. Otherwise there will be direct comparisons and complaints that bits are missing etc.

Can you really see them release the same game on the Wii as PS4/XBone ?
Even in SF the Wii one was crippled compared to the later consoles, that can only get worse as they push forward with the ability in these new consoles but are at the limits with the Wii.

thats where your wrong because with toys for bob they focus more on the wii and for sf they should have got tfb to do it for the wii so hush

Quote: Rattlebuckler

thats where your wrong because with toys for bob they focus more on the wii and for sf they should have got tfb to do it for the wii so hush

Ha, if TfB did Swap Force we would still be waiting for it. That's why they have two publishers doing it, to switch years. Giants wasn't much of a step up from the first, which is why they were able to do it two years in a row. But, they cannot keep that up, and Activision wants it to be a yearly franchise and stay new and fresh. TfB didn't focus on the Wii because they prefer it, they did it because it was deemed the best place to develop for their target audience - at the time. They will not be using the Wii as the target platform this time, and will likely build upon the engine used in Swap Force which has the 360 as the base platform.

The Wii is no longer in production. They still sell it, but that is back stock. The number of new Wii games is shrinking, and Activision certainly doesn't want one of it's premier games aimed at a dying platform. Sure, they will spin a version of it for all the people that haven't upgraded yet, but they have moved on from it being the lowest common denominator, and I would expect further cut backs in what it does this year. Besides, after seeing the upgrades in the more powerful systems, fans will simply not accept the game being lowered back to Wii quality.

It will still be a couple years before the PS4/XBOne are lead platforms. It's easier to develop for the 360, then bump up the resolution to the nextgens than it is to downgrade backwards. The WiiU isn't a good choice for the lead platform because it's standout features aren't shared by the other systems.

You may *want* them to move back to the Wii because that's what you play on, but it isn't going to happen.

v you don't need to be a jerk besides the wii has sold more starter packs than any other system

Defpally isnt being a jerk he or she is just making sense. The wii is dying. All systems die out. The wii has sold well but thats like saying mario sold best on the NES lets make more games for that system. It really sucks for the people who rely on the wii so much, I remember what it was like with parentals who would not let me upgrade or change game consoles, but that is what birthday money and chores are for. If you are older take 20 out of your pay check each week. In 3 months bam new system. TfB does not have an alliance with the wii, they are making skylander games and whatever system works the better and sadly the wii does not work for the future.

Unfortunately he isn't wrong in his stance on how the Wii will be approached. Nintendo has a newer model out and even though fewer people have one of those than the older Wii and sales are not what they want them to be so the development model will shift to either the PS3 or the Xbox360 and then be upgraded for the graphics of the 4 and one. the Wii will likely receive a version of the newest game to please the people that have yet to upgrade however eventually that will stop (think back to when xp was being phased out in favor of vista, eventually it's time to move up or be forgotten)

Also I don't think that he was being particularly mean or a jerk he was stating what is widely accepted as fact.

Quote: Rattlebuckler

v you don't need to be a jerk besides the wii has sold more starter packs than any other system

He isn't being a jerk, kid.

Quote: Rattlebuckler

v you don't need to be a jerk besides the wii has sold more starter packs than any other system

Rattlebuck, he wasn't being mean. You need to grow some backbone.

What about swapper giants?

I was kinda 0_o about them doing SWAP Force on the Wii as it's been a dead console for a while. It does have a huge established base, so I do 'understand it', but with it being so far behind the curve technologically speaking, I wonder how much more has to go into making it, I'd assume that's a large reason why it was apparently (all info from here I own the 360 version) so glitchy is tied to the fact that its a pure money grab more so than a true 'developed for this platform' game.

I think they would be better served next time - developing the 3DS one like a separate game like they did this time, and transferring THAT version to the Wii.

They also should consider making it a DLC option for the other console, maybe at a reduced price of say $20 since there would be no hardware - but you'd get more life and a different experience out of the total 'SL4' package. *shrug*

Heck, they could even throw a 'discount' card in with the game at launch so that people who buy SL4 at launch get it for $15 or something, so (assuming) I'd pay $90 and get 'two' full games - it would be a good value for a game that I'd end up throwing a ton of money at anyways, and it would give me more replay to last through the entire SL4 'figure release cycle'.
- Unreall

I'm simply tired of an antiquated platform that Activision targets as the reason why we can't get bug fixes, DLC to extend our experience (relative to the money invested in figures) on the newer platforms. I'm pretty confident DLC would actually be welcome in a franchise where the cost of a couple of figures could net dozens of additional hours of playtime.

I'm hoping for more of a mini open world experience, with the promise of activities actually moving forward into the next game beyond just XP/level. It needs to start adding some depth...at least as much depth as a six year old can handle. The methodology they are applying to the game definitely needs a "level up", but I'm afraid of the developer paradox paralyzing them in being too safe. I don't think they'll be able to replace the people that will start leaving the franchise if they don't do anything, frankly.

For the love of Pete, TfB...fix those loading times...that simple fact probably reduced everyone's long term enjoyment of the game by at least 25%.

The ability to download patches to a game allows them to add new figures after release.

I can think of nothing greater than increasing the market for figure sales to include people who bought the older games but not the newer ones. Activision may be able to "suck" them back in as it were.

I have NO IDEA why they didn't do patches, you can do those on the Wii too.

If you accept the idea of patches containing levels and figures that means they can make as many adventure packs as they want with new levels and new figures in each (small download required) forever more. That could only be good for revenue and longevity of the game.

Wii is dead. I hope they do NOT do SL4 for the Wii, it would be terrible compared to the other consoles. The Wii U needs help, it's time people upgraded. It's not a bad system just poorly marketed. It's worth it just for the HDMI connection instead of useless component video at best.

Quote: Pyrofer

The ability to download patches to a game allows them to add new figures after release.

I can think of nothing greater than increasing the market for figure sales to include people who bought the older games but not the newer ones. Activision may be able to "suck" them back in as it were.

I have NO IDEA why they didn't do patches, you can do those on the Wii too.

If you accept the idea of patches containing levels and figures that means they can make as many adventure packs as they want with new levels and new figures in each (small download required) forever more. That could only be good for revenue and longevity of the game.

Wii is dead. I hope they do NOT do SL4 for the Wii, it would be terrible compared to the other consoles. The Wii U needs help, it's time people upgraded. It's not a bad system just poorly marketed. It's worth it just for the HDMI connection instead of useless component video at best.

My Wii U has collected so much dust. It's practically a dead system too at this point. Nintendo more than likely still sells more wiis than Wii Us these days. What sucks is the potential is THERE, but Nintendo dropped the ball in several places - the poorly handled multiplayer/social experience, the poor interfacing, the slow downloads (everything about the OS is pretty much poor). That's before even extending into the game library.


But AV has really missed the boat with regards to DLC. I'm just hoping that when they finally realize this they don't go full micro-transaction. Never go full micro-transaction.
- Unreall

Be careful what you wish for with DLC. Like unreallystic said that is a good way to start the microtransaction system, at least with the level toys you get something that will transfer (albeit a useless bomb but hey it's something).
Now the inability to patch problems is more likely just laziness on the developer than anything else, I mean the Wii version is made by a different developer and all so that is a lame excuse if ever I heard one.

I think we can all agree that the Wii had a good run. It's sad, but it's not the first console I've known to be "retired" from the "gaming battlefront". Even if they don't make Skylanders 4 for the Wii, will that stop you from playing the games you have on the console? Probably not. We all have the choice to play what we want, whether or not it's the newest and best. I have an NES and SNES which I use quite happily. I don't care if they're "old school" or not, I just like to play them.

they will never cancel it on the wii if you look at the statistics it and the xbox 360 has sold more starter packs on thoes two systems than any other one besides the ps4 xbox1 and the wiiu are garbage

Quote: Rattlebuckler

they will never cancel it on the wii if you look at the statistics it and the xbox 360 has sold more starter packs on thoes two systems than any other one besides the ps4 xbox1 and the wiiu are garbage

You do realise it would be pointless to continue with the wii?

The only way they would continue with the wii would be if they downgraded the graphics which is not gonna happen since everyone would hate Acti.

Have you played the PS4,X Box One or Wii U?

If you haven't your opinion is pretty much invalid since you need to have played the console to actually have an opinion on them,well at least I think.

Also your post after the word I bolded makes no sense till the other word bolded.