darkSpyro

I am 100% certain that Voodood competes adequately in A-Tier.

If he was remade and they gave him an even remotely useful Wow-pow, he'd be an S-Tier for sure.

His melee is a tad clunky, but his overall damage, mobility, and utility are far too superior to any B-Tier or below opponents.

I just got back into the Skylanders series a few weeks ago, and so far I've been beating S-Tiers with Voodood AND Dinorang. They were my original favorites in S:SA, and was pretty upset they didn't make it for S2.

If you want more information, or match-up specifics, I can provide more later, just read the concern on Voodood and I'm heading out for the night.

Ok I'm here to talk about S2 Zap
This is suprising, but on Tesla I think He is


Seriously. The Backflip Does 33 Damage.
sounds bad.
BUT, It has incredible range+the damage of the regular wave attack.
He Is also very hard to hit and can get away pretty fast with a starting speed of 50

So..

Unless I'm missing something here, Flashwing Super Spinner and Whirlwind Tempest Dragon are seriously overpowered.

I noticed both were wrecking my B/C Tier characters, so I pulled out some of the "big guns", and honestly got pretty frustrated.

I used -- S2 Prism Break Crystaleer , S2 Flameslinger Pyromancer, S2 Stealth Elf Pook Blade Saint, S1 DinoRang Grand Boomerang, S1 Voodood Maurader, S1 Wham Shell Captain, S1 Terrafin Brawler, S1 Slam Bam Blizzard Brawler, S1 Zook Floral Defender and S1 Ignitor SotF.

All S1's were level 10, with full heroic upgrades from S:SA. S2's were level 10 as well, but no heroic challenges yet. The Flashwing started level 10, but ended up hitting level 13 by the end of playing. Whirlwind went from level 10 to 12 during testing. No heroic challenges on either.

..I really, really don't know what to say. I'll start with Flashwing:

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She can constantly keep up with my ranged characters when I'm trying to kite, while deflecting my spells at the same time. Even caught up to my Flameslinger. Her high armor made her hard to hit as melee, yet her speed and ranged damage made it hard to deal with as ranged. The only character I had moderate success with was Zook because I played super defensive. Her damage isn't anything to cry over, but I just felt like there wasn't much I could do.

As for Whirlwind:

Uh.. How can any melee seriously do anything to her when she just stacks clouds and stands in them 24/7? Literally. She stomps my DinoRang, Prism Break, and Terrafin because of elemental advantage, so they're out. I tried with Zook, my cacti get shredded immediately. SotF Ignitor (despite him having the ele advantage) had a hard time because I would get popped out of my flame form and could barely keep it up. Voodood was close, but ultimately lost majority. Wham Shell another close one. The only thing I had moderate success with was Flameslinger running 24/7 and poking, and Slam Bam stacking straight Armor Heroics + Armor Hat + Armor Upgrade. I felt like I could just barely last long enough to stay in on her. My Stealth Elf literally died within ~5-10 seconds if I played aggressive.

I want to do more testing with Flashwing tomorrow, but Whirlwind is seriously dumb. I'm sure some OP ranged Skylander (HI DOUBLE TROUBLE!) can just run away and stomp her, but seeing as my favorites are melee's, it was incredibly difficult.

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On another note; I am not feeling impressed with Crusher's Rubble Master path. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but regardless if I try to keep the boulders out and roll, melee, or just constantly boulder/explode combo -- half of them don't seem to hit. I didn't give him much testing, because I moved on, but yeah, after the upgrades he just seemed so.. Meh.

EDIT: Also, what's with the setting "Fair Fight"? I understand wanting to making the HP levels even, but when I put it on because my Voodood was level 10 and Whirlwind was 12, my damage got cut by 2/3, yet I still died just as fast? Bug with S1 Skylanders and Fair Fight setting?

I totally agree with whirlwind. S1 Whirlwind, too. I can just run away and spawn traps. As for flashwing, she is best used as a keep away master and should only pursue the opponent if they are another keep away artist.

Anyone gonna read my Hot Dog post?

Quote: joerox123

Anyone gonna read my Hot Dog post?

Yeah, I would agree for firewall path for B, bu I think Burning Bow Wow Is an A.

Its spammy, has High Damage, long range, and is very usefull

Believe it or not, I suggest S2 Lightning rod/Lightning lord should definitely go up a tier or two. Some argue that the wow pow really makes such a small difference on that path, however I will argue that it does make quite a powerful difference. Remember how the main reason Lightning lord is inferior to Typhoon titan was that it was way too stationary? Well now Lightning rod has two powerful options for fighting at range, he can rack up ridiculous damage against those who are foolish enough to place themselves on a lower elevation than him with his 26 damage dealing grand lightning attack.However the wow pow gives him an entirely less stationary option for ranged damage that has seperate purposes from the grand lightning attack. The purpose of the wow pow is to handle someone who is trying to flee from you, and when someone is trying to play keep away Grand lightning summoning will not work very well, however the wow pow does a very rapid stream of 14 damage.......and Lightning rod does not have to stay in one spot! Ah, but how does he compete with his neighboring tiers? In D tier his insane damage and powerful ranged options score him epic victories, of course always watch out for those who have an elemental advantage over you....but even tier characters often must be cautious when fighting their elemental disadvantage. C tier does not seem out of his league at all, he does very well there, and meets very little competition B tier does not seem at all out of his reach.

Verdict: I highly recommend C or even B tier for S2 Lightning rod/Lightning lord. I have yet to try Typhoon titan with the wow pow, but I am loving him on Lightning lord with it!

Quote: Laurix

So..

Unless I'm missing something here, Flashwing Super Spinner and Whirlwind Tempest Dragon are seriously overpowered.

I noticed both were wrecking my B/C Tier characters, so I pulled out some of the "big guns", and honestly got pretty frustrated.

I used -- S2 Prism Break Crystaleer , S2 Flameslinger Pyromancer, S2 Stealth Elf Pook Blade Saint, S1 DinoRang Grand Boomerang, S1 Voodood Maurader, S1 Wham Shell Captain, S1 Terrafin Brawler, S1 Slam Bam Blizzard Brawler, S1 Zook Floral Defender and S1 Ignitor SotF.

All S1's were level 10, with full heroic upgrades from S:SA. S2's were level 10 as well, but no heroic challenges yet. The Flashwing started level 10, but ended up hitting level 13 by the end of playing. Whirlwind went from level 10 to 12 during testing. No heroic challenges on either.

..I really, really don't know what to say. I'll start with Flashwing:

---------------------------------------------

She can constantly keep up with my ranged characters when I'm trying to kite, while deflecting my spells at the same time. Even caught up to my Flameslinger. Her high armor made her hard to hit as melee, yet her speed and ranged damage made it hard to deal with as ranged. The only character I had moderate success with was Zook because I played super defensive. Her damage isn't anything to cry over, but I just felt like there wasn't much I could do.

As for Whirlwind:

Uh.. How can any melee seriously do anything to her when she just stacks clouds and stands in them 24/7? Literally. She stomps my DinoRang, Prism Break, and Terrafin because of elemental advantage, so they're out. I tried with Zook, my cacti get shredded immediately. SotF Ignitor (despite him having the ele advantage) had a hard time because I would get popped out of my flame form and could barely keep it up. Voodood was close, but ultimately lost majority. Wham Shell another close one. The only thing I had moderate success with was Flameslinger running 24/7 and poking, and Slam Bam stacking straight Armor Heroics + Armor Hat + Armor Upgrade. I felt like I could just barely last long enough to stay in on her. My Stealth Elf literally died within ~5-10 seconds if I played aggressive.

I want to do more testing with Flashwing tomorrow, but Whirlwind is seriously dumb. I'm sure some OP ranged Skylander (HI DOUBLE TROUBLE!) can just run away and stomp her, but seeing as my favorites are melee's, it was incredibly difficult.

---------------------------------------------

On another note; I am not feeling impressed with Crusher's Rubble Master path. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but regardless if I try to keep the boulders out and roll, melee, or just constantly boulder/explode combo -- half of them don't seem to hit. I didn't give him much testing, because I moved on, but yeah, after the upgrades he just seemed so.. Meh.

EDIT: Also, what's with the setting "Fair Fight"? I understand wanting to making the HP levels even, but when I put it on because my Voodood was level 10 and Whirlwind was 12, my damage got cut by 2/3, yet I still died just as fast? Bug with S1 Skylanders and Fair Fight setting?

Trashwing is not overpowered. What she lacks is health, damage, and close-range abilities.

Even though she has a lot of armor, her health is below average and she takes a rather short time to defeat, almost as low as Ignitor and Sprocket's health. I think it's only fair to have all combatants at level 15 before testing, whether the health levels are close or not. Maxium health levels do in fact make a difference, plus it's best to show their maximum power in comparison to the rest (without wearing hats, that's like cheating and doesn't show the minimum power needed). She will hang around for a while (but only because of her good armor), but won't be too hard to K.O. She can knockback projectiles while spinning though.

Her attacks are so fairly weak and low damaging; derived from the health thing, it will take really long for you to kill your opponent with her, and someone with higher health may kill you first. Her attacks are rapid, but still tick damage slowly. Her only attack that is really powerful is the Luminous Laser, but you have to charge it up and you can't move when doing it, making it easy to interrupt. There are lots of other characters who deal better damage.

She doesn't really have a lot of close ranged attacks and that is where she is most vulnerable, rapid 14 damage on the spinning path won't discourage me from Dropping the Hammer on her or Slashing and Burning her, because of her low damage she won't be much of threat up close anyway. She's a force to be reckoned with from a medium distance and she can knock you back, but her low damage still won't save her from her demise that easily; and her low health may result in a quick death.

She would be A tier if it weren't for her low health and damage, but still keep her in B tier please. She's not super awesome on either path.

^ Yet with the same armor and same health, Ignitor is in S. And, she is powerful, getting near someone while spinning gets roughly 80 damage because of how fast to ticks+ the 4 nine power light beams. I think she is A.

^ Yeah but Unlike Trashwing, Ignitor ticks damage WAY faster than she. On Soul of the Flame when super close to your opponent, you can hit your opponent with all 3 mortars and dish out 150 damage real fast, this is what makes it SOO much stronger than Blademaster and Flashwing on either path. The truth is; instead of wanting your enemy away from your armor, you want them NEAR it so you can do 150 damage with all the 3 forms. If your opponent tries to escape, herd them in with the flame form controls and explode to knock him/her back to you. Despite having slightly more health, Flashwing does not have these cool tricks and has weaker attacks.

The beams only do 9 damage and you can still get hurt from melee attacks while spinning (not projectiles though), plus the spin only gives her a small amount of speed; she's not crazy fast like Zap or Fright Rider (she's just average in Speed levels, like Sunburn is). There are lots of other characters in A tier that dish out damage much faster than she does; S2 Smash N Bash Stump Smash, Joust Jockey Fright Rider, Marauder Voodood, S2 Tempest Dragon Whirlwind, S2 Pulver Dragon Bash, etc..


She is powerful, but she can't pound enough of the other B tiers to make it into A, and the As would kick her butt really easy anyway. Her low health, close range tactics, and weak damage are the drawbacks.

^ Well, like you always say: Why would anyone be stupid enough to sit around and let you get hit? No one stupid enough would get near Ignitor! Let us take a vote!

Flashwing A: 1
Flashwing B: 1

^ EXCEPT, they don't need to be dumb, you can easily catch em yourself. Just shoot out your flame form to chase after em and herd them in nearby your suit, and them explode to knock them back closer.

Can Trashwing do something like this? NO!!!!!!!!!! Face it, she would be A tier if she had more damaging attacks, higher health, and better close range skills; but she still lacks these and should stay in B tier.

Besides, there are tons in A tier who'd kick her ass; especially Smash N Bash S2 Stump Smash, Pulver Dragon S2 Bash (Revenge on her for shooting him off that cliff) Tempest Dragon Series 2 Whirlwind, and Marauder Voodood. She's leagues below A.

The only guys who wouldn't put up much of a fight against her are Master Blaster Drobot, Operator Sprocket (Gearhead would be even bigger cake for Trashwing, Gearhead is AWFUL in PvP), and possibly Brawler Terrafin.

EDIT: Video time again (VERY bad sound quality though)! Hooray!



And call me crazy, but I think I would rather move Smash N Bash S1 up a tier to D or 2 to C, I feel he's leagues above E tier, certainly did better in PvP for me than Nut Crafter. Yeah he's slow and has his drawbacks, but still has some great advantages that the other E-tiers don't.

1. No Undead Guys in E-tier, no elemental disadvantage. But there are 2 Water Guys there (Harpooner and Commander Crab ) that'd give him the advantage.

2. All the other E-guys (except for Wham-Shell, but still elemental disadvantage) have weaker attacks than him and lower health, his health is WAY too much. 3 of them do have more armor though and that would help fight against him.

3. Ranged melee and projectile attacks (mostly with the Meganut, more useful here than Nut Crafter).

Low Speed and size still aren't enough to make him E tier for me, although he did lose to Magmantor Eruptor once (only E tier that did beat him so far). He's flawed, but is better than some people say, his Stumpfist Charge combo also gives him a boost of speed for when he needs it (we gonna talk speed, it's Prism Break who's the slowest out of all of them).

I'll hear a couple more recommendations about S2 Zap and Hot Dog before I think about putting them in a tier, so keep those opinions and findings coming!

I think we can keep Voodood / Marauder and Flashwing / Super Spinner in the same tiers for now, but the points brought up about S2 Whirlwind / Tempest Dragon (currently A Tier), S1 Whirlwind / Tempest Dragon (currently B Tier) and S1 Stump Smash / Smash n' Bash (currently E Tier) are interesting. Does anyone have an opinion about whether any of these should be a tier higher than their current positions?

Something interesting to note about Fright Rider's joust attack, not sure if it works on other versions but on the Wii U verison you can pretty much stay infinitely in joust charge with good timing on the attack button, before the charge ends, you can press and hold the button again immediately and Fright Rider will go right into another charge with no downtown.

Pretty sure others already discovered this and it doesn't really affect his tier placement but... there ya go

Quote: EgoNaut

I'll hear a couple more recommendations about S2 Zap and Hot Dog before I think about putting them in a tier, so keep those opinions and findings coming!

I think we can keep Voodood / Marauder and Flashwing / Super Spinner in the same tiers for now, but the points brought up about S2 Whirlwind / Tempest Dragon (currently A Tier), S1 Whirlwind / Tempest Dragon (currently B Tier) and S1 Stump Smash / Smash n' Bash (currently E Tier) are interesting. Does anyone have an opinion about whether any of these should be a tier higher than their current positions?

s1 whirlwind is amazing. she has beaten many A tiers at mai house. she has beaten wham shell with barely any dmg taken, murdered voodood, but took a bit of dmg, killed s2 prism break both paths, but took quite a bit of dmg from prismancer, and killed zook with about half he health remaining.

Quote: EgoNaut

I'll hear a couple more recommendations about S2 Zap and Hot Dog before I think about putting them in a tier, so keep those opinions and findings coming!

I think we can keep Voodood / Marauder and Flashwing / Super Spinner in the same tiers for now, but the points brought up about S2 Whirlwind / Tempest Dragon (currently A Tier), S1 Whirlwind / Tempest Dragon (currently B Tier) and S1 Stump Smash / Smash n' Bash (currently E Tier) are interesting. Does anyone have an opinion about whether any of these should be a tier higher than their current positions?

I'm thinking Ol Fright Rider should be in an S

^ No...... Fright Rider should stay in A tier. I love him a lot, but still.

What he lacks is defense. Like Stealth Elf, Fright Rider has low health and armor and takes damage quite easily, he's powerful but kinda easy to defeat.

I wish I could say he's S though.

Maybe listing some"Broken" aspects of S Class will help everyone remember/understand why S class even exists and what it takes:

Near Infinite Invulnerability: Terrafin S2
Spammable Stun Lock: Chop Chop S2
400+ AoE Hits while using all other abilities: Hex S2
Auto Firing (while holding button down) Lock-on Attacks: Drill Sergeant S2
Massive HPs with Range: Crusher and Swarm
Auto-Lock and Infinite Channeling: Double Trouble

I also love Fright Rider as does my oldest boy, but as good as his attacks and damage are, he still doesn't have any "broken" characteristic which remove his vulnerability to lose matches. If you dodge his joust and slam, you can punish him significantly. Contrast that with the inability to "Dodge" Double Trouble/Hex's attacks or the inability to damage Terrafin underground and you begin to see the difference between S and A.

I hope that helps.

Quote: Slivers

Maybe listing some"Broken" aspects of S Class will help everyone remember/understand why S class even exists and what it takes:

Near Infinite Invulnerability: Terrafin S2
Spammable Stun Lock: Chop Chop S2
400+ AoE Hits while using all other abilities: Hex S2
Auto Firing (while holding button down) Lock-on Attacks: Drill Sergeant S2
Massive HPs with Range: Crusher and Swarm
Auto-Lock and Infinite Channeling: Double Trouble

I also love Fright Rider as does my oldest boy, but as good as his attacks and damage are, he still doesn't have any "broken" characteristic which remove his vulnerability to lose matches. If you dodge his joust and slam, you can punish him significantly. Contrast that with the inability to "Dodge" Double Trouble/Hex's attacks or the inability to damage Terrafin underground and you begin to see the difference between S and A.

I hope that helps.

^ This.

Whirlwind S2: "A" class seems to suit her although I will always agree that she could be S class. That may sound like a paradox of sorts, but it is a result of not having a good argument of what is "Broken" about her except that I can consistently beat (50% or higher win rate) every S Class Skylander except Chop Chop and Hex.

However, since I can't identify her "Broken" component (see my post above), I pretty much just assume it is my proficiency and love of her play style and abilities that gets those results. The only thing I can think of which could be considered "Broken" is Whirlwind's ability to fire Tempest Clouds across Battle Arenas while remaining mobile.

With all that being said, if others are having the same consistent results against "S" class, then I support considering and discussing "S" class placement.

Quote: Slivers

Maybe listing some"Broken" aspects of S Class will help everyone remember/understand why S class even exists and what it takes:

Near Infinite Invulnerability: Terrafin S2
Spammable Stun Lock: Chop Chop S2
400+ AoE Hits while using all other abilities: Hex S2
Auto Firing (while holding button down) Lock-on Attacks: Drill Sergeant S2
Massive HPs with Range: Crusher and Swarm
Auto-Lock and Infinite Channeling: Double Trouble

I also love Fright Rider as does my oldest boy, but as good as his attacks and damage are, he still doesn't have any "broken" characteristic which remove his vulnerability to lose matches. If you dodge his joust and slam, you can punish him significantly. Contrast that with the inability to "Dodge" Double Trouble/Hex's attacks or the inability to damage Terrafin underground and you begin to see the difference between S and A.

I hope that helps.

I find the gap between A and S tier to be quite small too. My definition of A tier characters is: characters that are very strong, but can be cheap and/or S tier in the right hands, and this very well applies to Joust jockey.

Quote: Slivers

Maybe listing some"Broken" aspects of S Class will help everyone remember/understand why S class even exists and what it takes:

Near Infinite Invulnerability: Terrafin S2
Spammable Stun Lock: Chop Chop S2
400+ AoE Hits while using all other abilities: Hex S2
Auto Firing (while holding button down) Lock-on Attacks: Drill Sergeant S2
Massive HPs with Range: Crusher and Swarm
Auto-Lock and Infinite Channeling: Double Trouble

I also love Fright Rider as does my oldest boy, but as good as his attacks and damage are, he still doesn't have any "broken" characteristic which remove his vulnerability to lose matches. If you dodge his joust and slam, you can punish him significantly. Contrast that with the inability to "Dodge" Double Trouble/Hex's attacks or the inability to damage Terrafin underground and you begin to see the difference between S and A.

I hope that helps.

I think a better thing to say than Spammable Stunning would be added effects- Stump Smash (acorns slow you down), Flameslinger (burning patches), and Chop Chop (stunning with Bash).

And you forgot high armor (not the same as Near Invulnerability, armor can be really useful if you have a lot of it. You could block tons of attacks- Ignitor, Bash (combined with his high health), Drill Sergeant, and Crusher

I still think that marksman is better for flameslinger.

Quote: X-Treme

I still think that marksman is better for flameslinger.

I don't know what to think of him atm, honestly.

I feel like his supernova just doesn't do enough damage for the amount of setup it takes, and overall his damage seems too low.

I enjoyed Marksman in S:SA, but gave Pyro a whirl when I saw he made it to S-Tier in Giants. He is near impossible to catch, but it takes a looooooooong time to actually kill anything. You just scratch peoples hp and run.

yeah, marksman has the same dash speed, just more dmg with the arrows.

Supernova seems to be able to hit several times now

Since the A and S tiers have a very thin line between each other, I must ask....

How thick/thin is the line between D and E tier. If it's thick, then how come there's no G tier (for very bad characters, few but almost completely useless)

I think it would be F tier for failures.

Like total tongue

Quote: Laurix

Quote: X-Treme

I still think that marksman is better for flameslinger.

I don't know what to think of him atm, honestly.

I feel like his supernova just doesn't do enough damage for the amount of setup it takes, and overall his damage seems too low.

I enjoyed Marksman in S:SA, but gave Pyro a whirl when I saw he made it to S-Tier in Giants. He is near impossible to catch, but it takes a looooooooong time to actually kill anything. You just scratch peoples hp and run.

Yes, it definitely is scratching people and running against many opponents, but what earns him his spot is the fact that, even against many of the game's best, that'll eventually work. You really can gradually wear down, tire out, and finish off opponents with nothing but keep-away and arrow volleys--sort of like what Shadowdancer Cynder would do in Spyro's. Her damage was a liability as well, but if anything, it was a much-needed check to an unbalanced character. I don't even really use Supernova anymore unless I'm seriously caught and trying to stop my opponent for a second or two to gain more ground. Arrow volleys deal better, safer, more consistent damage, from any elevation, and leave field effects. They really wipe out slow guys, and chip away effectively against faster opponents.

It would be better if he won his fights more quickly, but the winning average and extra cheapness necessary for S-tier are there. The amount of patience required is his Achilles Heel, though, and he's certainly not a character for everyone. Especially when Drill Sergeant pulls the same tactic with far more damage, and only a slight hit to getaway speed.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Since the A and S tiers have a very thin line between each other, I must ask....

How thick/thin is the line between D and E tier. If it's thick, then how come there's no G tier (for very bad characters, few but almost completely useless)

Either the line is thin, or there is no need for a G Tier because the E Tier is already a sort of "bottomless" tier, as it is meant to be the catch-all "lulz" tier for any character who is just crap at PvP to any degree.

I imagine it's the first one though.

^ That's how I've been perceiving E-tier as well. Characters below the point of irrelevance, the non-entities of PVP; tried, verified, and proven to be useless from all angles. A bottomless dwelling for the poor Skylanders who have to rely on flukes, luck, and worse opponents for the vast majority of their wins.

Quote: Tashiji

^ That's how I've been perceiving E-tier as well. Characters below the point of irrelevance, the non-entities of PVP; tried, verified, and proven to be useless from all angles. A bottomless dwelling for the poor Skylanders who have to rely on flukes, luck, and worse opponents for the vast majority of their wins.

You make that sound so ... doomy.

So anyway, while we're on the subject of E Tier, does anyone have thoughts about whether S1 Stump Smash / Smash 'n Bash should be in said tier, or whether he has redeeming factors that deserve him to be moved up a notch. (See LightSpyro13's earlier post about Stump Smash for the sort of thing I mean.)

Smash & Bash has been made better by the same melee collision detection fixes that helped Blademaster Ignitor and S1 Chop Chops so much. That makes his combos easier to connect with, and by proxy, makes them deal more damage. Combined with his excellent HP (best non-Giant in the game) and above-average armor, the math isn't there to keep him in E-tier anymore. I don't know if I'd automatically bump him to C, but D is a good starting point.

Lemme guess, he got put in E because of his low speed. If it's cause of speed, then I'd maybe suggest moving b; S1 Prismancer down to D-C borderline (if any). I'm starting to wonder if he really belongs in C, my Prism Break did terrible PvPs on Prismancer (though some were success).

He's even slower than Stumps (gets even SLOWER when using the laser beam) and relies too much on his laser attack, there's really not much he can do with the crystal attacks. He ticks a lot of damage and all with the energy beam, but it's really the only good attack he's got and it decelerates him. He also doesn't have a lot of armor without Crystaleer and has average health.

Again, it is not a full decision, but I think I may change my thought. He just might be D in my book without the Wow Pow, just so slow and lacks defense.

I think Stump smash/smash n bash was put in E tier for not having much to back up his clunky melee, and thus he felt like an underdone version of Whamshell/ Captain crustacean. But I'll have to ask the person who recommended him for the E tier.

• Stump Smash / Smash 'n Bash (series one) moved to D Tier, for now. (I don't see why not.)
  

Oh hey Egonaut, did you read my suggestion for S2 Lightning rod/Lightning lord?

i really think this is wrong
its because there r no better or worse characters. its about how u play with them
i suck with whirlwind and shes my worst character
someone like lightspyro13 is probably amazing with whirlwind

Smash & Bash was put in E in the S:SA tier list, before the game engine fixed many of the collision issues that made his combos especially useless. Since that's been addressed in Giants, and HP is more important than ever, he definitely needed the boost. He wasn't ever officially placed in E for Giants, though, as far as I know. Just a holdover from the previous game that no one felt any enthusiasm for checking or correcting until recently, when we began running out of new characters to test and place.

EDIT: And to Andy: There is no such thing as a completely balanced video game. The nature of character selection is that some will invariably be better than others. Games like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Pokemon and Smash Bros. have tried for decades to create a game where everything is balanced and it's simply never happened outside of games where all characters have the same abilities and stats. Games with diverse rosters are bound by their nature to exist in worlds where one character's moves are more useful than the next. Case in point, look at Total Tongue Wrecking Ball and then consider a character like Crusher or Swarm. It's an extreme example, but there's no way to compare those two characters without establishing one as 'better' and the next as 'worse.'

Quote: Tashiji

Smash & Bash was put in E in the S:SA tier list, before the game engine fixed many of the collision issues that made his combos especially useless. Since that's been addressed in Giants, and HP is more important than ever, he definitely needed the boost. He wasn't ever officially placed in E for Giants, though, as far as I know. Just a holdover from the previous game that no one felt any enthusiasm for checking or correcting until recently, when we began running out of new characters to test and place.

EDIT: And to Andy: There is no such thing as a completely balanced video game. The nature of character selection is that some will invariably be better than others. Games like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Pokemon and Smash Bros. have tried for decades to create a game where everything is balanced and it's simply never happened outside of games where all characters have the same abilities and stats. Games with diverse rosters are bound by their nature to exist in worlds where one character's moves are more useful than the next. Case in point, look at Total Tongue Wrecking Ball and then consider a character like Crusher or Swarm. It's an extreme example, but there's no way to compare those two characters without establishing one as 'better' and the next as 'worse.'

sorry
it was just my preferable opinion

Quote: Tashiji

Smash & Bash was put in E in the S:SA tier list, before the game engine fixed many of the collision issues that made his combos especially useless. Since that's been addressed in Giants, and HP is more important than ever, he definitely needed the boost. He wasn't ever officially placed in E for Giants, though, as far as I know. Just a holdover from the previous game that no one felt any enthusiasm for checking or correcting until recently, when we began running out of new characters to test and place.

EDIT: And to Andy: There is no such thing as a completely balanced video game. The nature of character selection is that some will invariably be better than others. Games like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Pokemon and Smash Bros. have tried for decades to create a game where everything is balanced and it's simply never happened outside of games where all characters have the same abilities and stats. Games with diverse rosters are bound by their nature to exist in worlds where one character's moves are more useful than the next. Case in point, look at Total Tongue Wrecking Ball and then consider a character like Crusher or Swarm. It's an extreme example, but there's no way to compare those two characters without establishing one as 'better' and the next as 'worse.'

The Stumpfist Spin Combo was useless, but not the Stumpfist Charge. No I didn't use it for damage, but instead I used it as a boost of speed to compensate for his low mobility, came pretty handy. The Meganut abilities helped too, I certainly say Smash N Bash was better than Nut Crafter.

Yeah, s1 smash and bash is wayy superior.

has anyone did any testing on S2 Zap yet?
if so how much dos the wow pow benefit Telsa Dragon?

Eye For an Eye Eye Brawl is surefire S-tier material. Here's just a basic list of reasons why:

* Remote-control, Ignitor-style offense with invincible eye projectile

* Eye lasts (WAY) longer and has greater mobility than Soul of the Flame, at the cost of a little damage

* Your vacant body will melee blindly while your eye is away, which strangely provides useful self-defense

*Your vacant body will also combo with you for extra damage if approaching the same close-range target

* Eye leaves behind a damaging mini-eye with each laser blast that sticks to the opponent for added damage - very high rate of fire, can have up to five mini-eyes

* Still capable of above-average melee performance even without extra, path-specific upgrades due to high HP, quick punches, and a damaging Combo A

*"Giant" HP and above-average Armor leave you with none of the usual defensive vulnerability of finesse characters

There's just no way he isn't S. Fresh off Heroics, Eye Brawl is already utterly dominating A and S matches on this path. One of the best characters and paths in the game, and without a doubt abundant in the extra S-tier brokenness necessary to exist there. I'm certainly not saying we place him in S immediately upon my testimonial alone, though; just that it's academic he'll be there as soon as more people get to playing him.

I think it is funny that the headless giant swings around his fists blindly while waiting for his eye to come back.

Hey tashiji what is the "bounce the eyeball" attack on eye for an eye like?

Basically, press Attack C to bounce the eyeball for 30 non-AoE damage. Moderate speed, no delay aside from its own animation. It comes in handy, but range is essentially limited to precisely where the eye lands, so it takes a little effort not to miss.

EDIT: Also, Eye Brawl's melee path is pretty excellent as well. The still-decent remote eye is enough to stop him from being a generic plodding melee. Definitely worth trying.

Im new and dont really know what to do. But I was playing with swarm(s tier) and Bouncer(b tier)
it seemed like bouncer and the advantage and except for very wide open maps, he was very hard to beat. Swarm was barberous Avenger I tried to keep distance but it seemed like bouncer(i beam supreme) would always come up and start take my health away... FAST and when I tried to come up he would just pound me with his bullets, any thoughts?

EDIT:I also found Jet Vacs vaccum was very easy to escape from on the ice map

Why is S2 Chop Chop in S? It does 61 dmg in game, but 7 in PvP