darkSpyro

Quote: Thumpterra12

Air is weakest element. Strongest is prolly life, or earth.

Objection! Air is one of the strongest along with magic. Weakest would probably be water.

I think all elements are equal and that is just your preferences and how you play. Personally my list is:

1. Air
2. Magic
3. Fire
4. Earth
5. Water
6. Life
7. Tech
8. Undead

I know it's just my preferrance and I admit that. To be honest I get very annoyed when people treat their opinions like facts. But hey, high five on having Air as 1 and magic as 2!

^ *HIGH FIVES*

Hey, can we actually get these paths sorted?

S2 Gill Grunt Harpooner,
S2 Prism Break Prismancer
and possibly S2 Stealth Elf Forest Ninja.

In another comment, how do people use Soul of the Flame to win battles? Just wondering as I cannot seem to find a technique to win PvP matches.

^ Keep controlling the flame form and burn your opponent for a few seconds, and then explode after 4 seconds. If your opponent gets super close to your vulnerable suit, just explode to come back and bring them into your trap: When your enemy is close enough, hit them with ALL 3 mortars to do 150 damage.


Just use the flame Form and ignore the sword attacks.

Thanks.

Ignitor is really good. Just spam the X attack, controlling it to hit the opponent, then explode. Repeat.

Yes, LightSpyro is correct. In truth, you WANT them next to your armor. That's where you do more DPS than any character in the game. Mortar, explode instantly, mortar, explode instantly. Multiples can and will hit, and each can critical. S2 will leave blue flame on the ground during this as well. Use the remote-control soul form to coax them close, not keep them away.

That's all you have to do. You may have low HP, but your +Armor is extremely high, so it balances out to a certain degree in overall strikes blocked. Plus, as stated above, your DPS is unequaled at point-blank, and you have one of the best ways to lure foes there; an invincible, remote-controlled, high-range, explosive attack. Perfect to herd them close and explode them, because what are they going to do when they get there... outdamage you?

Granted, he is VERY weak to Slam Bam, but everyone has a liability or two. Otherwise, you should find a fair or better chance in just about every battle.

This is pretty much the reason Double Trouble is in S tier as well, deadly up close.

Now about Swarm Barberous avenger going to S tier here are some things we should consider:

How big is the "gap" between A and S tier? I am assuming it's not huge, or at least it seems like people aren't treating it like such.

Swarm's chances against the S tier brutes? My suggestion is to play 10 matches against each of them, and evaluate his results. Obviously just going 0 and 10 to one character isn't enough to say he should not be S tier. Nor would it be for him going 10 and 0 to one character, saying he should be S tier.

The gap between A and S? I'd say S-tier characters win 90%+ of their matches versus the entire field, and A win 80%+. It probably is the narrowest gap between two tiers, because A guys are also considered to be exceptional, and the difference between being exceptional and being broken is sometimes very slight.

I would test Swarm in S, but my brother uses nothing but (S1) Terrafin and my sister uses nothing but Wrecking Ball. Explaining tiers to them did not go well, and they gave a "power depends on how you use it" argument.

I agree with and want to emphasize Tashiji's assessment of S and A class differences. It is very worth noting for all who are testing and working to provide objective feedback that the margin of difference between S and A is very small; making even the slightest advantage for a Skylander amplified and easily tainting the results.

Examples of things to be aware of:

Heroic Challenges: Even having a couple more on a Skylander in the right categories can tip the field.
Levels: Yes, Hit Points matter and even a level or two difference can help you survive where you shouldn't have.
Hats: This is often overlooked but putting the Knight's Helm on one and not the other is creating a significant advantage.
Elemental Advantages: I know I forgot often when having fun with my boys!

Please, keep these things in mind when doing your tests and giving results; ideally doing all tests with Max'd Skylanders whenever possible.

Honestly, SOME A tier characters, while strong, seem quite far from broken. Marauder Voodood definitely needs some finesse to be close to broken as(the zipline axe) plus his clunky melee attacks are a pain. While other A tier dwellers seem a single spec away from being S tier, if not a potential S tier.

Quote: gillgrunt987

Hey, can we actually get these paths sorted?

S2 Gill Grunt Harpooner,
S2 Prism Break Prismancer
and possibly S2 Stealth Elf Forest Ninja.

In another comment, how do people use Soul of the Flame to win battles? Just wondering as I cannot seem to find a technique to win PvP matches.

As I have mentioned:

S2 GG: C/B
S2 PB: I recently played this path and it is MUCH BETTER! The beam also looks pretty cool! I just use: A, Pulse, A, Pulse and keep spamming that until they die.
S2 SE: B

^ No way! Forest Ninja Should Be C. Her Scarecrows still suck ass and she has low armor and health, her Wow Pow is really the only thing saving her from D.


BTW I noticed a helpful trick on Pook Blade Saint for Stealthy (but not Forest Ninja). First you need to do her primary combo and land 60 damage and more, and then instantly press the Attack Button #3 to chain the Blade Flurry combo. You don't even to start over and press Attack 1 twice again, just chain one combo after the other. It's awesome!

^ You're invisble, can leap for extra dagage, wow pow, repeat. And Tashiji posted that too

The overall problem with Forest Ninja is that the second an experienced opponent sees your clone running slowly--because any lack of Acrobatics at all is automatically suspicious--and in a straight line, the jig is up and your scarecrows will not be surprising anybody. I think that's why the figure is so polarizing; some people can fool their opponents into attacking the decoy, and others can't. Personally, I don't think anyone should be fooled by that and find it easy to counter.

However, there are better strategies than trying to sneak up on your opponent repeatedly, such as playing her for damage. Basically, Forest Ninja tends to work better as a "bomber" melee, getting close and stealthing/unstealthing repeatedly in hopes that you can keep your opponent continually surrounded in scarecrows while also landing the occasional slices and stabs. Yes, upper-end characters will gnaw right through you anyway, but it works fine against middling/lower opponents. C-tier may not be too high at all, but I'll be lying if I say I've tested her extensively and automatically recommend it. We just need to get on the same page about how the character is being played, because of course you're going to get D or E performance out of her if you're treating your opponents like NPC enemies and not like reasoning, thinking human beings who can tell when you're using Stealth Mode for the most part. Heck, they can even look at the controller in your hands and watch you trigger it, and it's not effective when they see it coming.

(i am new as many of you know) But from what I have read I think Whirlwind should be thought about being moved up on the temest Dragon. I found her clouds easy to use and very damging. When you have 3 clouds with the lightning between them, I found that extermely powerful

^ S2 Whirlwind, yes. S1, no, please.... no.

The problem with the clouds is that they're too easy to avoid, and their damage radius is very small. Not everyone's just gonna sit there waiting to be killed.

Whirlwind S2 results are included on thread Page 30 by a few people. The rsulting recommendation is keeping Whirlwind S1 (Tempest Dragon) where she is and moving Whirlwind S2 (Tempest Dragon) to A Class.

Ok, I am very fine with that, although I dont find realize her Wow Pow would be that important

^It lets the clouds shot their own rainbows (once) and explode into rainbows, it makes it easier to hit your opponent and lets the clouds do even MORE damage now.

EDIT: Let's show her Wow Pow in action, shall we?

And also L-Stealth Elf with the 2 combo chain trick somewhere

LightSpyro13 - What difficulty are you playing on in those videos? It would be good and helpful info to know if you posted in each video post.

Thanks!

^ Hard Mode in all of my videos, have only gotten far as Kaos' Kastle for Nightmare mode. But I feel that I've been doing Kaos' Kastle and Lost City of Arkus to much in my vids, can't find another level suitable to record in.

Normal Mode and Easy mode are not difficult enough for me.

Also as a bonus video: Sprocket n the Gearhead path. I really, really hate this path. In fact I didn't even ait until leveling up to 15 or doing any Heroics (Her maximum health cap is 613 btw, the same as Ignitor's and it's not that great), I hated it that much I was eager to go back to Operator. The Tanks and Turrets barely get any good upgrades that would actually help, the damage only increases by 2 and the Explosions are very Small and easy to avoid, no one's just gonna sit around waiting to get blown up with 50 damage. The mines are also still useless on this path, Operator benefits the mines and even the tanks/turrets Better.

I should apologise to everyone for my apparant absence there. I've just spent a few days over new year with my cousins up in Yorkshire: I didn't announce it because I planned on staying in touch while I was up there, but I seem to have underestimated how busy the new year's celebrations would keep me.

It appears that some interesting conversations took place while I was gone, but it's great to see it's already all been sorted out!

I have just read through the parts of the thread that I missed in a hurry, and have tried my best to pinpoint what changes to make. I might have missed a few bits though, so speak up if there are any outstanding issues!

• Swarm / Barberous Avenger moved to S Tier.
  
• Stealth Elf S2 / Forest Ninja placed in C Tier.
  
• Prism Break S2 / Prismancer placed in B tier.
  
• Whirlwind S2 / Tempest Dragon moved to A Tier.
  
• Gill Grunt S2 / Harpooner placed in C Tier, just to be conservative for now. Should he be higher?
  

Are there any more opinions that people would express about moving Bouncer / I-Beam Supreme higher, and perhaps Tree Rex as well?

Seeing as there is debate as to whether or not Eye of the strorm Warnado should claim his position in C tier again, I am going to do some testing against the D tier with him. I played him against S2 Trigger Happy Golden money bangs so far and Warnado won with about 80 some HP left. The mini turtles do not seem to aim poorly like people say. They fought at Sunrise towers.

i have an objection to prismancer: that path is much easier to control, as i played it more, and you can rack up more damage quicker. just a laser, pulse. laser, pulse. each pulse/laser does 108 dmg, and is hard to avoid. i think that prismancer needs to move next to crystaleer, or go to S. he is currently #1 of all my skylanders.

^ NOT S! Low Defense, Medium HP, and Powerful attacks. I admit I think it is better than Crystaleer but does not deserve S. More like highA

No way to both, not S or A, keep it in B. The pulse combo trick isn't as hard to avoid as on Crystaleer.

Low armor, low defense mechanisms, low speed, lack of close-range tactics; what more can I say?

No, the combo does less damage then just blast-pulsing the opponent. The opponent just runs away from the 3 crystals on crystaleer.

^ Same with the regular pulse on Prismancer, only even easier to dodge. The pulse combo on crystaleer isn't too hard to dodge, but is very effective and racks up more damage than the pulse on crystaleer (unless it gets a critical hit).

But regardless, Prism Break is still too slow and easy to maneuver; doesn't belong in S tier.

I have a question regarding Spyro. In the S:SA tier list, both Sheep Burner and Blitz are listed in Upper B (Average). That matched most of the path recommendations I've seen, with a pretty even split between people who prefer each path, and many stating that they're both pretty equal.

Now in this list, Blitz is in B (Good) and Sheep Burner is in D (Below Average). I see some of the same people who called them even in S:SA now saying that Blitz should be moved up relative to Sheep Burner.

What happened to make them go from being even to being separated by two tiers? Does the Giants engine favor Blitz over Sheep Burner moreso than the S:SA engine did? Is it that with the new tier rosters, Blitz's strengths just happen to line up better against the higher tiers than Sheep Burner's? Perhaps Blitz was always better and people are only just now realizing it? Or perhaps the opposite - i.e. they are still fairly even and were mistakenly separated in the new list?

I haven't gotten into Giants yet (waiting on my wife), so I'm genuinely puzzled right now. While it's been common for S1 characters to be shifted some as new characters are added, the pecking order has remained fairly consistent. The biggest jumps I've been aware of have been related to the improved melee engine in Giants. Without some similar change, it seems odd to see them suddenly jump so far apart.

Does anyone have thoughts about moving Prism Break S2 / Prismancer up to the same Tier as Crystaleer? Do people think they could occupy the same tier, even if one may be slightly better than the other?

Occupying the same tier would ve nice. They are both powerhouses.

I agree A but definitly NOT S!

I say keep it in B; defenses are too low to be as good as Crystaleer. It's good, and the pulse does a lot of damage, but he just lacks defenses and armor.

^ But he can do keep away because he has great range, also I think Crystaleer should be B because besides his armor what's good? His crystals are easy to dodge, and you're vulnerable when using it. They are also just as ranged as the beam. And no damage upgrades on this path. Whereas on Prismancer his beam gets way better. My vote is that Prismancer and Crystaleer switch paths. Also, even if you go slow you can just mash a, you don't HAVE too hold it. Why Crystaleer is the more liked path astounds me, but you know whatever. Anyone else agree with this switch?

You're also vulnerable when using the beam, it slows you down and you're slow enough already without even using it. The Crystal Eruption is also really useless on this path, it's really small and it does not do much damage. Crystaleer helps it to make better for close-quarters, something Prismancer does not have. Prismancer has offense, but not a lot of defense.

You're wrong, the Massive Crystal Eruption IS a damage upgrade that will help him more in close range, Prismancer is better for long-range but not close.


The Crystals aren't easy to dodge if you use the pulse combo first to knock them back, and you can let them have it. They can also serve as obstacles for your opponent if you need to escape (won't be easy though cuz he's still slow).


Crystaleer still is the superior path, Prismancer is good too but still only B in my book. More of a Top B, damage output still isn't enough to move to A.

^ Ddid you not read the sentence that said: You don't HAVE to hold it, you can just mash A!

The only problem I see with Prismancer going any higher than A or upper B is the fact that he suffers far more than Crystaleer on arenas with coverage and height. The triple crystal drop is essential to competing well in those arenas, and single crystal drops won't scare anyone out of hiding with a 100+ damage beam waiting for them on the other side. With Crystaleer, it doesn't matter what height your opponent is, nor does it matter what side of field defense they're on; there's always going to be a way to pop them for decent damage. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Prismancer, on the other hand, will find himself stymied by walls and elevation depending on the arena, and lacking +40 armor and the crystal eruption upgrade definitely puts him below Crystaleer on defense as well.

On the other hand, beam/pulse spam really is highly effective, and there really doesn't seem to be anything keeping them out of the same tier if the path continues to get heavy A-tier support. He definitely does his fair share of damage there, and his style of offense, arena-dependent though it may be, works like gangbusters in enough of the game to possibly justify the side-by-side A-tier presence of both Prism Break's paths. Not entirely dissimilar to how we have Terrafin.

I do think that versatility gives a considerable edge to Crystaleer, but I, too, am beginning to question if this is a full tier's edge or not. Prism Break is an absolute powerhouse now, and regardless of path, a sure staple of the higher tiers thanks to the sheer excellence of his Wow Pow.

I guess I might as well move him to A, then.

• Prism Break S2 / Prismancer moved to A Tier.
  

Quote: EgoNaut

I guess I might as well move him to A, then.

• Prism Break S2 / Prismancer moved to A Tier.
  

After being the one to open the Prismancer can of worms and now having played more w/ S2 Prismancer, I agree he sits in A Tier even if he is not at the top of the Tier. He battles very well against most of the group while not having problems with defeating the B Tier.

Tashiji's last post was very accurate except I seem to have no problem with the beam firing to differing elevations to connect with a Skylander. Maybe it is more Map specific on which ones he can shoot up or down, but the Arenas we've been playing haven't shown problems with the Beam hitting opponents on differing elevations. I'll try to do more by-map specific testing in the coming weekend.

A bit concerned we are starting only placing on theory but not actual battles too.

I would probably recommend dropping Jet Vac Bird Blaster down to E-tier, it was fun but pathetically useless.

The damage for the vac blaster only increases by 4, his "maximum" damage is only 15 per shot (22 with critical hits, but his critical hit rate is VERY low); plus the super shot needs enemies for ammo, which does not exist in PvP unfortunately (would be awesome if enemies started spawning in the battle arena though). His jet pack doesn't last very long and his attacks have NO knockback, it's not easy trying to escape when you have to. His upgrades are really mediocre and are really useless on this path.

In my testings, he lost to:

Magmantor Eruptor (elemental advantage, but I could hardly do ANYTHING to Eruptor because of the weak damage Jet Vac has)

Smash N Bash Stump Smash

Battledozer Drill Sergeant (barely)

Golden Money Bags Trigger Happy

He only managed to beat Harpooner Gill Grunt and Telsa Dragon Zap. He does have a lot of armor and a long range though; just thaty minor advantage would save him from E tier, but that's where I believe he belongs.

Quote: lippyskillz

A bit concerned we are starting only placing on theory but not actual battles too.

Such as?

I agree LS13. But you just need to suck the Winnie the fan then it's charged,

I don't quite agree with Bird blaster going to E tier....yet.

Well no matter who used him, Bird Blaster did terrible PvPs, even with the most skilled guy: ME!!! He did get lucky a few times, but the majority of the fights were losses.

His Armor and long range are the only thing he's got going for himself.

Quote: lippyskillz

A bit concerned we are starting only placing on theory but not actual battles too.

For the most part, we aren't. It is generally a standard in this thread nowadays that most statements people make here are derived from actual battle experience rather than conjecture. In the rare event that a tier placement is changed based on incorrect theorisation, people will often find out later on and post battle-experience findings to set us straight. We're generally quite good at doing our research here.