darkSpyro

yaaa, my little sister cant WAIT 4 skylanders 2 come out,well i wonder if they will show the voices and i espacialy want to know cynder's voice,,, and Dark, do u think skylanders will be a good,fun video game??, 4 some reason skylander's world and the bounceing stuff remind me of mario, sonic and
stuff,,i would think activison would of gave up makeing spyro games after all the negative letters and stuff

Quote: Prysom

Lol, I am a virgin, kid.

Really? Because on Dark's GB you stated "Come back when you all aren't whiny little virgins".
:O

Quote: Silvery

Okay, so if LoS really sucked as much as so many of you seem to think, then explain why me and many others still keep insisting we liked it? It seems to me that many of you were fans of it when it first came out, but then grew to dislike it after some years. So the game's first appeal was decent at least, but not so much with the lasting one. Maybe I too will be of a different opinion a year after now.

But for now, I insist on liking the games and disliking the notion that the Spyro design seen in Skylanders seems to be the new, permanent direction. I'll also be a SxC supporter due to liking the story behind LoS (both characters' pasts are haunted by Malefor in one way or another, they bond with each other as the story progresses, they deserve a loving and supporting relationship after their hardships, etc.). Yes, it might be somewhat of a cliché, but then again the contrary cannot be said of too many couples, real or fictional. I think your standards are a bit on the high side. :p

Edit: Of course a new game would also have new villains, a new story, etc. Aren't you restricting your imagination to a cliché-dominated environment now by thinking that a game with Spyro and Cynder as a couple could never have those ingredients? If you've read any of the Spyro fanfics at fanfiction.com, you'd find there are many who invented great stories that continued where DotD ended; with ingredients such as the evolution of S&C's relationship, new dangers, the rebuilding of Warfang, new characters, etc. I've personally read closer to 1 million words (2500 book pages?) of such fanfic within a month now, and I'm still not satisfied :p

Because everyone has an opinion. Not everyone loves TLoS, not everyone hates it.

I doubt it's permanent. And what standards? I hate Cynder x Spyro, but not because they have a cliche story (which they do, by the way).

I don't read Spyro fanfictions. Mostly because a VERY large amount of it ends in Spyro x Cynder, and I'm sick of that.
Honestly, again, not everyone wants more TLoS, or even Spyro x Cynder. Really, it had lots of fans and it got lots of haters. TLoS didn't make it well on the stock market, so it's less likely they'll make more LoS, anyway.
You have low standards, then.


I also lol'd at Sonicbrawler's post.

.............YOU GUYS ARE ALL VIRGINS WHO CAN'T DRIVE.

(...I've wanted to use that line for SOOOO long)

Quote: LevanJess

Quote: Prysom

Lol, I am a virgin, kid.

Really? Because on Dark's GB you stated "Come back when you all aren't whiny little virgins".

I am by choice, they are because they refuse to get real lives.

Aaand you know that how?

Quote: Prysom

Quote: LevanJess

Quote: Prysom

Lol, I am a virgin, kid.

Really? Because on Dark's GB you stated "Come back when you all aren't whiny little virgins".

I am by choice, they are because they refuse to get real lives.

......Oooooor, maybe it's because a lot of people on this site are underage?

It's not like you need to be 18 to lose your virginity. Some people lose it (willingly) at as young as 8. Most lose it by 16, and lots 14.

I haven't lost my virginity, thank God.

Quote: Prysom

It's not like you need to be 18 to lose your virginity. Some people lose it (willingly) at as young as 8. Most lose it by 16, and lots 14.

Depends on what country you live iiiiiiinnnn.

There are countries that prohibit it below 18? You've got to be kidding.

I shet you not.

I'm Spyro should like SoulCalibur because of the level designs, music and graphics. These are the reasons why I like SoulCalibur, Devil May Cry and Final Fantasy, because they remind of PSone Spyro.

Is that really a bad thing? You would rather AC/DC music?

I wonder what a cross between Spyro and Final Fantasy would be like? That could be genius...

Quote: Prysom

There are countries that prohibit it below 18? You've got to be kidding.

/Off Topic

A majority companies in the world have a their age of consent lower than 18, however a large majority of these countries say that it's against the law for a legal adult to have sex with someone that is bellow the legal adult age and above the age of consent.

For example, the UK is one of these countries.

That's referring to statutory rape. A person who is 16 cannot have sex with an 18 year old legally, but they can with another 16 year old. You could be 12 and 14, 15 and 13... as long as the two are on the same side of the 18 dividing line, it's fine.

Quote: Prysom

That's referring to statutory rape. A person who is 16 cannot have sex with an 18 year old legally, but they can with another 16 year old. You could be 12 and 14, 15 and 13... as long as the two are on the same side of the 18 dividing line, it's fine.

Not in Ireland. I believe it's straight out 18. I admit, I'm not 100% on it, but the legal age for smoking is 21, and 18 for alcohol, so as you can see, it's pretty strict.

Right now, I'm trying to think of how Spyro and FF could be combined... It could be genius...

Funny you should mention that. I remember conjuring up ideas for LoS and FFXIII fan fiction.

Think about it. Magic and combat (along with items and weapons depending on character) used in turn based combat, just like FF. It could totally work. I can easily see Spyro working like that.

If they got Mario and Sonic to work in that kind of formula, they can do it for Spyro.

Easy too. Limit breaks could be awesome.

@LevanJess:
Duhh, of course pretty much all TLoS fanfic ends (if not starts) with SxC, since that's what the entire storyline of LoS dictates, more or less. Nothing wrong with that And call me narrow-minded, but the LoS games are by far the most story-heavy of all Spyro games so far, and this story-heaviness also allows for ample development of relationships between characters, so it's hardly strange that Cynder would seem the most viable partner for Spyro. This is further emphasized by how even the only other option(s) - those residing outside of TLoS - are not exactly viable - Ember (a very, VERY cliché female character, might I add) ends up falling for Bandit, and who else is there, Elora the faun? X)
If you ask me, it's either SxC or then Spyro is single. If that's what you would wish instead, then I guess I can't argue with you

Also, relationships aren't only about falling in love and admitting it, there's also their evolution, romance, helping and supporting your partner, sharing the good and bad times... I don't see why it wouldn't allow for a good game to be created, as long as the basics are in good hands.

Quote: Silvery

@LevanJess:
Duhh, of course pretty much all TLoS fanfic ends (if not starts) with SxC, since that's what the entire storyline of LoS dictates, more or less. Nothing wrong with that And call me narrow-minded, but the LoS games are by far the most story-heavy of all Spyro games so far, and this story-heaviness also allows for ample development of relationships between characters, so it's hardly strange that Cynder would seem the most viable partner for Spyro. This is further emphasized by how even the only other option(s) - those residing outside of TLoS - are not exactly viable - Ember (a very, VERY cliché female character, might I add) ends up falling for Bandit, and who else is there, Elora the faun? X)
If you ask me, it's either SxC or then Spyro is single. If that's what you would wish instead, then I guess I can't argue with you

Also, relationships aren't only about falling in love and admitting it, there's also their evolution, romance, helping and supporting your partner, sharing the good and bad times... I don't see why it wouldn't allow for a good game to be created, as long as the basics are in good hands.

BWAHAHA! AHAHAHA! AHAHAHA!

STOP IT, YOUR KILLING ME!

...What's funny? The fact that what I stated is so blatantly obvious?

No, that it's so ridiculous!

Not only did say LOS, a overused cliche plotbase with plotholes galore all over, was a STORY-HEAVY game, but you said that the characters, the very epitome of worthless acting and blandness, were able to develop ample relationships!

To top it ALL off, you said Cynder, and oh believe me, I could spend HOURS pointing out every flaw in this bland, worthless, typical, cliche, oversexualized, wooden, cardboard, one-dimensional little shallow whore the gaming industry disgraced the very word "character" with, who just so happens to have the depth of a puddle and the appeal of rotting flesh (And don't even get me started on her sadomasochistic chains and shackles that she has ALL over her!), was a perfect match for ANYONE, let alone someone random like Spyro...

It's just all so hilarious! It's a riot! What is likely the most embarrassingly bad video game couple ever to disgrace a screen, and you SUPPORT it, as if it means something to you? It's just so funny!

Quote: Prysom

There are countries that prohibit it below 18? You've got to be kidding.

Welcome to the United States of America.

Quote: StevemacQ

I'm Spyro should like SoulCalibur because of the level designs, music and graphics. These are the reasons why I like SoulCalibur, Devil May Cry and Final Fantasy, because they remind of PSone Spyro.

Is that really a bad thing? You would rather AC/DC music?

I know what you were getting at. I was just making a bad joke earlier. And I would like a slightly dark tone, provided it was done right (it honestly hasn't). But at the same time, we must all remember that Spyro is a kids game at heart. It's honestly best not to tamper with that.

I like AC/DC.............though Thunderstruck is seriously overused.

But wouldn't you want a game that appreciated a balance?

Quote: Prysom

No, that it's so ridiculous!

Not only did say LOS, a overused cliche plotbase with plotholes galore all over, was a STORY-HEAVY game,

You're lowering yourself to the point of committing dramatic exaggeration which you yourself know is way overboard. Compared to the other Spyro games LoS was still story-heavy, if for no other reason then for the amount and length of cutscenes present, and the whole movie-esqueness of the game series.

Quote: Prysom

but you said that the characters, the very epitome of worthless acting and blandness, were able to develop ample relationships!

Opinion.

Quote: Prysom

To top it ALL off, you said Cynder, and oh believe me, I could spend HOURS pointing out every flaw in this bland, worthless, typical, cliche, oversexualized, wooden, cardboard, one-dimensional little shallow whore the gaming industry disgraced the very word "character" with, who just so happens to have the depth of a puddle and the appeal of rotting flesh (And don't even get me started on her sadomasochistic chains and shackles that she has ALL over her!), was a perfect match for ANYONE, let alone someone random like Spyro...

Opinion & huge exaggeration; Cynder is by far not from the worse end of female game characters I've seen in terms of the qualities you listed above.

Quote: Prysom

It's just all so hilarious! It's a riot! What is likely the most embarrassingly bad video game couple ever to disgrace a screen,

Opinion.

Quote: Prysom

and you SUPPORT it, as if it means something to you? It's just so funny!

Oh, so you're allowed to not only have all these radical opinions on the characters, but also present them as undisputed facts, while me even stating my opinions is hilarious and ridiculous?

Of course. It's an overrated couple, and I have to say I personally don't like it.
And that's not really what LoS dictates. LoS isn't a game that revolves around love. I guess it could, though.
There's nothing wrong with it, but I told you I personally despise the couple, so there's a problem.
True, it's heavy-storied, but it is FULL of plotholes, and it has a real cliche storyline. And relationship in that dark atmosphere? Doesn't seem too right to me. Especially when Cynder was a HUGE b**ch to Spyro in DotD( I could give reasons). Plus, Spyro didn't even KNOW Cynder that well.

Yep, Elora is left. there are Elora x Spyro shippers. At least Elora isn't a huge b**ch to Spyro( Again, I can give reasons).
Ember can dump Bandit; it isn't very hard. I find that find that kinda funny how you're not in for a dragon x a faun but you seem fine with a dragon x an armadilo (is that what Bandit is?). That's the vibe I get from that "What's left? Elora?" thing.

Also, Ember is cliche (when we've seen less than 2 minutes of her on screen), but Cynder isn't, with her snotty little know-it-all attitude and whoreish shackles? Pfft, yeah, 'kay. I totally haven't seen that before in a story.

Spyro could go with Cynder, Elora, or Ember. Or he could be single. It's opinion on that one.

A game like that could be created, but they do need things like villains and such to make a good game PLUS the romance gaga stuff.
Maybe you have ideas, but I don't, as I don't read Spyro fanfiction.

Oh, I can't resist!

Quote: Silvery

@LevanJess:
Duhh, of course pretty much all TLoS fanfic ends (if not starts) with SxC, since that's what the entire storyline of LoS dictates, more or less.

Ahahaha! Whoa there, what game were you playing? I can tell what you're reading, certainly, and it's very limited fare. I've written at least one fic that starts with a dead Spyro and no SxC at all and I can point you to several other stories that don't assume that they're a couple just because every other drooling fanboy can't see past Cynder's butt long enough to write anything else. And, call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure the entire storyline of LoS was building up to the defeat of some world-killing evil. What was his name? Malefart? Something like that.

Quote:

And call me narrow-minded, but the LoS games are by far the most story-heavy of all Spyro games so far, and this story-heaviness also allows for ample development of relationships between characters, so it's hardly strange that Cynder would seem the most viable partner for Spyro.

Only if you count recycled cliches so old they're collapsing under their dust "story". Frankly, I found trying to save the world from a mysterious shadow plague and ending dragon racism (Shadow Legacy) a lot more interesting and far less predictable. And the only reason Cynder is a "viable partner" for Spyro in LoS is because there is literally no other option unless you wander into squick territory. Frankly, it struck me as massively out of character for Cynder to even care about that sort of thing, and Spyro sure didn't.

Quote:

This is further emphasized by how even the only other option(s) - those residing outside of TLoS - are not exactly viable - Ember (a very, VERY cliché female character, might I add) ends up falling for Bandit, and who else is there, Elora the faun? X)
If you ask me, it's either SxC or then Spyro is single. If that's what you would wish instead, then I guess I can't argue with you

I call fantasy racism on this one! Seriously, is your imagination so lacking that you can't abide the thought of two different species pairing up? Wait, no, you can because you do support Bandit/Ember. This pretty much confirms that the only reason you're arguing this at all is because you ship SxC so hard you can't stomach any other idea. Despite the fact that, of all the girls he's met, Elora is the only character to ever a) do something nice for Spyro of her own accord, b) feel bad for getting him into trouble and making him do more work, c) give him more than a second chance with her, and d) KISS him. Whereas Cynder...is the only female of his species, tried to kill him (consciously and unconsciously) no less than three times, betrayed him twice, and never lifted a claw to make him feel any better.

Quote:

Also, relationships aren't only about falling in love and admitting it, there's also their evolution, romance, helping and supporting your partner, sharing the good and bad times... I don't see why it wouldn't allow for a good game to be created, as long as the basics are in good hands.

None of which we see in LoS at any point. Relationships are also about time. At most, Spyro and Cynder have known each other for three weeks by the end of DotD. That's not love, kids, and if you think it is, boy are you going to be disappointed about a month down the road from that point.

Yes, that kind of story would make for a good game story. Has it ever been done? No. The closest we've gotten is "Catherine", which still falls very short. Will it ever be done? I hope so, but I don't think an overrated faux epic about a baby purple dragon is going to be the game to do it. Heck, I haven't even seen a single SxC fic that makes that pairing plausible, and I've read a few.

Edit: Whew, I just saw some of your other posts, Silvery. Yep, it's pretty clear what kind of fan you are, which is all well and good, but I do recommend not trying to force your desperate SxC love down the throats of people who aren't with you. At least half of this fandom is comprised of your fellow drooling Cynder fans and I know they'd love to hang out with you.

To quote a little ditty sung by Twilight Sparkle:
It's okay, to not like things
It's okay
Just don't be a dick about it!

Bleh, when they finally create a female character who has a sense of dignity and doesn't resign to the helpless-damsel-in-distress stereotype (which is evident from lines such as "Why should you lead?"), she then is a snotty, know-it-all *****?

That dominant attitude in fact makes her a lot less whore-ish than Ember (the one who literally forces herself on Spyro) for example; not offering herself willingly, even if it's to the only one who tried to save her - and successfully did so. The spiky shackles only serve as a memento of her dark past; they shouldn't be combined with her black scale colour in the sense of interpreting it as the dragon counterpart of slutty goth clothing if that's what you imply, since after all Cynder's egg was black to begin with. She couldn't pick her own colour.

The rest of your post seems like blind repeating of what LoS haters/criticizers have probably written here over and over again (no offence ); without caring to elaborate on how exactly the storyline is so much more cliché than the majority of the other offerings out there in the gaming world, or on how the game is full of plotholes and how that unavoidably ruins the experience. If this really is your own opinion then I expect you to give examples that I can't counter within good taste; otherwise you should practise more source criticism - don't accept what people say without truly and verily explaining the reasons behind it to yourself.

To everyone in general: Stop dissing Cynder only because so many people are fans of her . I know it's tempting to constantly pick on something that so many like while you don't (the more it's liked the more you want to diss it), but I seriously don't see how she is such an awful character that she would be of deserving this... near discrimination. Of course she isn't perfect, but trust me when I say she is definitely and by far not one of the worse characters I've seen. I for one am more than content with her character design. ;p

I really should stop writing things I know whoever I wrote them for isn't going to read. And you missed my edit, so here it is again:

Edit: Whew, I just saw some of your other posts, Silvery. Yep, it's pretty clear what kind of fan you are, which is all well and good, but I do recommend not trying to force your desperate SxC love down the throats of people who aren't with you. At least half of this fandom is comprised of your fellow drooling Cynder fans and I know they'd love to hang out with you.

To quote a little ditty sung by Twilight Sparkle:
It's okay, to not like things
It's okay
Just don't be a dick about it!


Now to address this little doozey:

Quote:

To everyone in general: Stop dissing Cynder only because so many people are fans of her smilie. I know it's tempting to constantly pick on something that so many like while you don't (the more it's liked the more you want to diss it), but I seriously don't see how she is such an awful character that she would be of deserving this... near discrimination. Of course she isn't perfect, but trust me when I say she is definitely and by far not one of the worse characters I've seen. I for one am more than content with her character design. ;p

Oh ho, spoken like a true Cyndork. I'd tell you why I don't like her, but I know you won't read it and will insist that your theory about people only hating her for her fans is the only reason people don't like her. And, just so you're aware, Cynder's not real. It's quite impossible to discriminate against a bunch of pixels.

Ember is the Damsel-in-Distress when Cynder was the one who had to be rescued at least 3 times? When Ember wasn't even in trouble in any of the games (I haven't played SL, so I'm not sure on that one), and needed Spyro to help her?
She IS a snotty little know-it-all. She's "dominant" in DotD, but did you notice her attitude? Or how she pretty much told Spyro to "get over it and get a move on!" when Ignitus died?

You've seen less than 2 minutes of Ember. And Cynder being dominant doesn't completely bring her out of being a whore. Not offering herself, huh? She knew Spyro less than 4 weeks by the end of DotD, and then says "I love you". That sounds like offering herself.
Sure, Ember had her flaws and "forced" herself on Spyro, sure. It's not like Ember yelled "U MUST LOVE ME!111"
Cynder didn't either, but hey, at least Ember doesn't need Spyro to save her all the time. I don't think you can say the same for Cynder.
She couldn't. But the shackles still make her look a bit whoreish.

I don't hate LoS, I mostly hate most of the fandom and the annoying cliche story and plotholes. So, elaborate how I failed to make a point.
You seriously didn't notice the HUGE plotholes in DotD?

1. When Malefor had Spyro at the beginning of the game, he could've killed him. He didn't.
2. The shackles on Cynder. How did they get on there?
3. How did Spyro and Cynder grow up in a CRYSTAL?
4. How come in that one level where Hunter was on the other side of that building, they couldn't FLY over it?

I'm in a rush now, but if you want more, tell me.

The cliche storyline? I totally haven't seen the whole "A girl gets in trouble, a boy comes and saves her, she runs away, he saves her again, she falls in love with him even though he barely knows her" storylines before. :P
I was going to, I was waiting to see if you wanted me to.
Of course. See above sentence.

What an example of a Cyntard (no offense). I don't just hate her because she's overrated, or because "it's so COOL!" to hate things that are liked. That's a bad theory there, man.
I hate her horrible attitude, her design, a majority of her fandom, her whole "Damsel-in-Distress" deal, and her personality in general.

How is this discrimination? Especially when it's pixels on a screen? And who expects her to be perfect?
For me, she is one of the worst I've seen. One reason IS her design. I don't like "sexy dragon gurls" as half of your fandom does.


And why'd you ignore Razz?

He's ignoring me because he has no answer for what I've said. People like this only respond to the things they can respond to. I'm pretty used to it by now; I deal with a lot of Cyndorks, what with having once been one of them and, thus, having drawn a lot of their favorite pictures.

Ember was safe and sound in Dragon Village in SL. She actually seemed to be less upset by the encroaching Shadow Realm than everyone else and got over it immediately. But, yeah, I do seem to recall Cynder needing to be rescued in ANB (pulled out of the convexity portal), in TEN (it was the whole plot and she needed rescue twice), and DotD (who turned all evil and had no willpower until some purple doofus rescued her? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ember ).

I'll throw this in: I liked Cynder up until DotD, but what little personality she did have went out the window in that game. When she wasn't being a nasty, snarky little smart-aleck, she was wallowing in her own (out of character) self pity, betraying her friends, completely giving in at the slightest hint of trouble, and pretty much being one of the worst stereotypes for a hormonal girl child I've ever seen. And there's no way her design wasn't meant to look skanky, especially when there was almost no dirty art of her before DotD came out but immediately after her design was revealed it was (and still is) everywhere. Cynder being skanky is pretty much all she's known for outside of the very small group of people who played DotD.

And I predicted everything that happened in DotD from the end of ANB (except that it would be so horrible and wouldn't even be consistent with ANB and TEN). I'm not normally that sharp (I managed to be surprised by the twist in "Psycho" in spite of it having literally been spoiled by all of American culture; same with the twist in "Empire Strikes Back"). When even I can call plot details right down to Obi Wan...I mean Ignitus biting the big one and someone being in love with someone else, you've done a bad job telling your "story".

You might just want to give up, LevanJess. Cyndorks don't change their minds on these things. Nothing you say will convince Silvery that Ember isn't Satan for having the audacity to like Spyro, or that Cynhder isn't a sex goddess. It'd be all well and good if we weren't all expected to agree with these things.

Quote: Silvery

You're lowering yourself to the point of committing dramatic exaggeration which you yourself know is way overboard. Compared to the other Spyro games LoS was still story-heavy, if for no other reason then for the amount and length of cutscenes present, and the whole movie-esqueness of the game series.

And you're lowering yourself to the point of borderline fanboy/girl trying to defend a game with too many flaws to ignore, even as a fan of those games.

Oh, Silvery's way past borderline, CAV. Way past.

Are you going to allow me time to write a reply to your post? Yes? Thanks. Please be patient. I noticed you're a fast typer but please be patient, English is not my native language.

Post shall follow shortly.

Edit here since my next post would otherwise exceed the character limit: I'm gonna go sleep now, it's so much past midnight where I live that the sun is going up soon, and I need to attend to lectures tomorrow. I'll get back to everyone's other replies tomorrow. Sorry for having you wait! G'night~

Agreed with CAV. Also, happy birthday CAV. :3 I keep forgetting to tell you.

@Razz
Ah man, I know that feel. I used to be a Cyntard, too. And I know tons of people like that. Heck, Cyntards don't usually really have very good arguments, do they?

Haha. xD I should play that game sometime.
Agreed. Cynder had to be rescued a lot, and like you said in your last post, Cynder didn't lift a claw to make it up to Spyro.

I agree; I think Evil Cynder and TEN Cynder is okay, but DotD Cynder lacked personality and what little she had was just rude, and everything you listed (sorry, in a bit of a rush xP). It was pretty annoying how she kept wallowing and complaining all the time.
And YES over the dirty art! Cynder's design in DotD did look a bit stanky. :/

That's true, they aren't easy. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just defending my opinions.

EDIT: And sure, Silvery, go ahead.

Well, for as harsh I am about your fannish inclinations, I will say that you write English very well. Though I should say that you're probably wasting your time. I've read/watched/played a lot more than you have just by virtue of being a decade+ older. I've also been in this fandom for several years longer and have likely seen everything you're going to say. It didn't change my mind then and it won't change it now, just as I don't expect my above diatribes to make any lasting impression on you. I just can't resist jumping into these things for the sheer fun of it.

LavenJess:
Yeah, they really don't. I remember some of my arguements from back in my Cyndork days. They pretty much boiled down to "This subtext backs me up! Blah!" until I discovered crack pairings and also remembered my Star Trek training (multiple universes are a-okay ).

Oh, yes, SL is great fun! Some of the story bits end kind of suddenly, but I enjoyed myself. It really is LoS only with more fun and surprises.

I still like ANB/TEN Cynder and I tried to like DotD Cynder for a long time, doing exactly what fans like Silvery are doing to try and justify her. I got over it, though. She's just a bunch of pixels at the end of the day and, frankly, it's not worth dealing with her fans just to write/draw something that might salvage her destroyed image.

CAV: Happy birthday, dude!

Alright, here's my reply to your first reply:

Quote: Razz

Ahahaha! Whoa there, what game were you playing? I can tell what you're reading, certainly, and it's very limited fare. I've written at least one fic that starts with a dead Spyro and no SxC at all and I can point you to several other stories that don't assume that they're a couple just because every other drooling fanboy can't see past Cynder's butt long enough to write anything else.

It would be more than obvious to assume that since you either dislike SxC shipping or are strongly against the notion that SxC is the only true pairing (which is noble as a concept), you'd be more familiar with non-SxC stories than the average Spyro fanfic reader. I personally haven't known LoS for all that long, which is why I probably haven't had the chance to specifically delve into that category yet, no, I've been more than content narrow-mindedly and exclusively reading SxC fanfics such as those written by Spartan-029, Riverstyxx, Dardarax, etc. X)
And I'm going to just ignore your way of incorporating Cyndork-hate related rhethorics in your post, since I'm not (well, I definitely don't consider myself to be) one of them; I'm trying to be as open minded as possible given the circumstances, and I'm definitely not furry (scaley?) for Cynder or anything like that lmao, hope that's not what you were trying to insinuate.

Quote: Razz

And, call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure the entire storyline of LoS was building up to the defeat of some world-killing evil. What was his name? Malefart? Something like that.

Well duh. Maybe what I said was worded wrong or something (blame it on English not being my native language I guess), but obviously LoS revolves on both saving the world AND developing the SxC relationship (or at least DotD does).

Quote: Razz

Only if you count recycled cliches so old they're collapsing under their dust "story". Frankly, I found trying to save the world from a mysterious shadow plague and ending dragon racism (Shadow Legacy) a lot more interesting and far less predictable.

The more epic you want a game to be, the more difficult it is to knowingly create a story that isn't a cliché, due to the obvious reason that epicness is often popular and as such sought after by game creators, and as such often done, resulting in clichés. It's pretty much the case of near direct relativity between clichédness and epicness. LoS was a game series of more epic proportions, and as such it's more than obvious that it's also going to be more predictable in nature than some of the smaller games (Shadow Legacy for example). It's an acknowledged tradeoff.

Quote: Razz

And the only reason Cynder is a "viable partner" for Spyro in LoS is because there is literally no other option unless you wander into squick territory.

True, but why should this necessarily be wrong? LoS advances predeterminedly like a movie or a novel, not like a game such as Mass Effect where you can pick your direction yourself. All I did was reason that since I liked LoS and the story in it, it only comes naturally that I also "ship" SxC (if it can even be called shipping, with all the obvious references to it being more than fans' imagination being present in the game series).

Quote: Razz

Frankly, it struck me as massively out of character for Cynder to even care about that sort of thing, and Spyro sure didn't.

I respect your opinion, and it is why you probably found yourself drawn to Spyro games in the beginning - in some circumstances the main character(s) need to be oblivious to love for the good of the game / story. However I didn't have any problem with Spyro and Cynder going with the way they did in DotD; I only found it natural after all they'd gone through together.

Quote: Razz

I call fantasy racism on this one! Seriously, is your imagination so lacking that you can't abide the thought of two different species pairing up? Wait, no, you can because you do support Bandit/Ember. This pretty much confirms that the only reason you're arguing this at all is because you ship SxC so hard you can't stomach any other idea.

The more carefree environment in the earlier Spyro games allowed for different species pairing up (evident with Bandit and Ember), and that's what made me do as much as acknowledge Elora as a prospect of Spyro's love. However, the LoS universe is different in this regard from what one would reason after fully experiencing the games' contents, and I guess this made it feel weird for me to pair Spyro with someone of another species. Though this results in a confusing comparison between the two universes, and might again be a case of narrow-mindedness on my behalf, so apologies if it indeed is so.

Quote: Razz

Despite the fact that, of all the girls he's met, Elora is the only character to ever a) do something nice for Spyro of her own accord, b) feel bad for getting him into trouble and making him do more work, c) give him more than a second chance with her, and d) KISS him. Whereas Cynder...is the only female of his species, tried to kill him (consciously and unconsciously) no less than three times, betrayed him twice, and never lifted a claw to make him feel any better.

Though you're kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel with your reasoning here (though you're probably doing it on purpose just for the sake of pointing out these funny facts), the things you listed are mostly true, not the last part though! Cynder did give Spyro a comforting nuzzle after Ignitus (in a very clichéd manner, but nonetheless) died; and voluntarily chose to stay with Spyro when he brought the world back from the brink of destruction!

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Also, relationships aren't only about falling in love and admitting it, there's also their evolution, romance, helping and supporting your partner, sharing the good and bad times... I don't see why it wouldn't allow for a good game to be created, as long as the basics are in good hands.

Quote: Razz

None of which we see in LoS at any point. Relationships are also about time. At most, Spyro and Cynder have known each other for three weeks by the end of DotD. That's not love, kids, and if you think it is, boy are you going to be disappointed about a month down the road from that point.

Good point, that's exactly what I wanted to say with the SxC relationship not being fully utilized yet in any game, and why it'd be a shame not to do so!

Quote: Razz

Yes, that kind of story would make for a good game story. Has it ever been done? No. The closest we've gotten is "Catherine", which still falls very short. Will it ever be done? I hope so, but I don't think an overrated faux epic about a baby purple dragon is going to be the game to do it. Heck, I haven't even seen a single SxC fic that makes that pairing plausible, and I've read a few.

Mhm, if I understood you right then I agree.
As for the fics, you should try Tears of an Oracle, AoH, Dark Legacy to name a few. Dunno if you've already read them all, but those are some I found myself liking, and they're all SxC.

On topic: My brother saw the first ad on National Geographic. While he's rather interested in the game, he admitted that the ad looked stupid.

Quote: Razz

Oh, Silvery's way past borderline, CAV. Way past.

Trying not to flame anyone.

Quote: LevanJess

Agreed with CAV. Also, happy birthday CAV. :3 I keep forgetting to tell you.

Quote: Razz

CAV: Happy birthday, dude!

Oh. Well thank you. Both of you.

@Razz
Ah yes, crack pairings and multiple universes. :3 I love those.
Same here. I rarely argued, though whenever I did they just boiled down too.

Sweet! Sounds great. <3

So true. I like them too a bit, though DotD Cynder seems real overrated. :l I used to like her, then a few years later I disliked her due to her personality.
True, just a bunch of pixels. xP

@Silvery
Go ahead, take your time! I should get to bed myself soon.

@CAV
You're welcome! <3
And I do agree, the funny ad maybe should be more serious, although I guess it does grab the attention of kids.

It grabs the attention of kids, but probably because there isn't a silent moment in the ad, and it's all noise and yelling.

"BLOW IT UP".

Quote: Silvery

It would be more than obvious to assume that since you either dislike SxC shipping or are strongly against the notion that SxC is the only true pairing (which is noble as a concept), you'd be more familiar with non-SxC stories than the average Spyro fanfic reader. I personally haven't known LoS for all that long, which is why I probably haven't had the chance to specifically delve into that category yet, no, I've been more than content narrow-mindedly and exclusively reading SxC fanfics such as those written by Spartan-029, Riverstyxx, Dardarax, etc. X)

I'm glad you're honest about your bias. Just remember that SxC is not everyone's OTP. Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with it if it a) hadn't been rammed down our throats by the game (though not nearly as conclusively as everyone would like to think) and b) the fans of the pairing would be as kind to fans of other Spyro couples as they want us to be to them. You only need to block so many rabid SxC shippers from your gallery on Christmas day to feel it's a bit old. And I liked Spartan-029's first story, incidentally.

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And I'm going to just ignore your way of incorporating Cyndork-hate related rhethorics in your post, since I'm not (well, I definitely don't consider myself to be) one of them; I'm trying to be as open minded as possible given the circumstances, and I'm definitely not furry (scaley?) for Cynder or anything like that lmao, hope that's not what you were trying to insinuate.

Well, that's good to know. Your post and the way you were responding to the possibility of other Spyro couples read like the usual Cyndork rhetoric, so I may have jumped the gun there.

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Well duh. Maybe what I said was worded wrong or something (blame it on English not being my native language I guess), but obviously LoS revolves on both saving the world AND developing the SxC relationship (or at least DotD does).

Yeah, you did phrase it as if the whole point of LoS was SxC. But I do have to say that SxC was never a big part of the series as far as I saw it. In ANB, there was nothing. In TEN, there was some subtext that Spyro might like Cynder in a doopey puppy-love kind of way, but nothing more. In DotD there was nothing until, bam!, Cynder randomly confesses her love for a guy who is a stranger to her at a time when he probably didn't hear it and in a state of mind which suggests she is confused more than anything else. It was way to sudden to be really believable unless you really want to see it that badly.

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The more epic you want a game to be, the more difficult it is to knowingly create a story that isn't a cliché, due to the obvious reason that epicness is often popular and as such sought after by game creators, and as such often done, resulting in clichés. It's pretty much the case of near direct relativity between clichédness and epicness. LoS was a game series of more epic proportions, and as such it's more than obvious that it's also going to be more predictable in nature than some of the smaller games (Shadow Legacy for example). It's an acknowledged tradeoff.

I'm afraid that's laziness talking. Something you may not know about LoS is that it was not written by writers, but by it's producers. If you'd like to see a real epic story in game form, might I suggest Portal 2 (which is based very heavily in Greek mythology), the first God of War, Okami, Beyond Good & Evil... You'll not a pretty big lack of predictability in these titles and a lot of orginality. The problem with "epic" is that most people assume it's a word that describes a cliche summer blockbuster when, in fact, it is a specific form of Western story telling. There's a good way to tell an epic and a bad way. LoS is not the good way. Yes, LoS has some redeeming qualities, but its story is not one of them.

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Quote: Razz

And the only reason Cynder is a "viable partner" for Spyro in LoS is because there is literally no other option unless you wander into squick territory.

True, but why should this necessarily be wrong? LoS advances predeterminedly like a movie or a novel, not like a game such as Mass Effect where you can pick your direction yourself. All I did was reason that since I liked LoS and the story in it, it only comes naturally that I also "ship" SxC (if it can even be called shipping, with all the obvious references to it being more than fans' imagination being present in the game series).

No choice at all is not a right choice. And I can tell you that there are more unpredictable movies/novels than predictable ones, I'm just guessing you haven't encountered them yet. You're working off a bit of a flawed premise on this one. Now your last sentence is dead on! That's the best reason to like anything. It's when you argue that there's some other reason besides "I like it" that people get up in arms. You're trying to tell us why we should like based on your experiences, which are not ours. I fully support you liking SxC because you do, but I don't supporting being told I need to like SxC because of observations that may or may not be true.

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Quote: Razz

Frankly, it struck me as massively out of character for Cynder to even care about that sort of thing, and Spyro sure didn't.

I respect your opinion, and it is why you probably found yourself drawn to Spyro games in the beginning - in some circumstances the main character(s) need to be oblivious to love for the good of the game / story. However I didn't have any problem with Spyro and Cynder going with the way they did in DotD; I only found it natural after all they'd gone through together.

Haha! Oh, goodness. You don't know me at all. I was drawn to Spyro because it was a brightly colored game where you could play as a dragon and it was super fun to play (this is the original Spyro, btw). I only played LoS at all, ironically, because of Cynder. Even so, I never could take the overwrought faux epic seriously when I actually played it. As for SxC being dumped on the players, it destroyed my suspension of disbelief entirely. I was in favor of the pairing in ANB and TEN since it was plausible that they could wind up together way down the road when they grew up. Telling us that a pair of preteens who barely known each other are in love is what I like to call some serious BS.

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The more carefree environment in the earlier Spyro games allowed for different species pairing up (evident with Bandit and Ember), and that's what made me do as much as acknowledge Elora as a prospect of Spyro's love. However, the LoS universe is different in this regard from what one would reason after fully experiencing the games' contents, and I guess this made it feel weird for me to pair Spyro with someone of another species. Though this results in a confusing comparison between the two universes, and might again be a case of narrow-mindedness on my behalf, so apologies if it indeed is so.

Who says? Sparx outright admits that Cynder is sexy. There you go: one species in LoS is attracted to another one. In fact, Sparx shows just as much interest, if not more, in Cynder than Spyro does. What it boils down to is this: LoS is a fantasy, and in a fantasy, anybody can pair up with anyone they like, regardless of species. It's cool to like dragon/dragon pairings, but they don't exclude dragon/other creature pairings. I know it's a bit overwrought, but saying one character can't love another just because they're different species always sounds a bit too much like "but you're white, and he's...ew, black...you can't get married!" to me and it makes me rather uncomfortable. And it does stunt the imagination unfairly. We all know how two dragons pair up and interact, so where's the fun in that? But a dragonfly and a dragon, or a dragon and a faun? Now those are some pairings I like to see explored!

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Quote: Razz

Despite the fact that, of all the girls he's met, Elora is the only character to ever a) do something nice for Spyro of her own accord, b) feel bad for getting him into trouble and making him do more work, c) give him more than a second chance with her, and d) KISS him. Whereas Cynder...is the only female of his species, tried to kill him (consciously and unconsciously) no less than three times, betrayed him twice, and never lifted a claw to make him feel any better.

Though you're kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel with your reasoning here (though you're probably doing it on purpose just for the sake of pointing out these funny facts), the things you listed are mostly true, not the last part though! Cynder did give Spyro a comforting nuzzle after Ignitus (in a very clichéd manner, but nonetheless) died; and voluntarily chose to stay with Spyro when he brought the world back from the brink of destruction!

Yes, right after she told Spyro very callously to get over the death of the most important person in his life. And we don't know how long she and Spyro were hanging out in Avalar after the world was remade. It looked to me like they were just doing a little celebratory loop-de-loop before going back to tell everyone what happened. Still, that's not really an indicator of much and, again, Cynder had ulterior motives for doing both of those things. By contrast, Elora teamed up with Spyro to help him, celebrated at least one victory with him that she wasn't a part of, and treated him like a friend from the start and not just a means to an end.

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Quote: Razz

None of which we see in LoS at any point. Relationships are also about time. At most, Spyro and Cynder have known each other for three weeks by the end of DotD. That's not love, kids, and if you think it is, boy are you going to be disappointed about a month down the road from that point.

Good point, that's exactly what I wanted to say with the SxC relationship not being fully utilized yet in any game, and why it'd be a shame not to do so!

I think most Spyro fans have had enough of SxC. It's something that needs to stay in the realms of fanfic. Spyro has gone back to his roots and is now a game for youngsters, a game in which exploring romantic relationships has no place.

As for the fics, I probably won't be reading them. If you'd gotten to me a couple years ago, I might have been interested, but, as I've said, I've had it up to my eyeballs with SxC. It's literally everywhere and nobody is doing anything interesting or unique with it. I've read some of AoH already and I did enjoy the first story but the rest was too bogged down in OCs and really frustrating plot "twists", so I never finished it.

BOT: A funny ad is usually a good way to sell to kiddos. It's a bit doofy and annoying to us, but it'll stick in a kid's mind and make them remember it.

^My little brother is a kiddo, and was annoyed.

haha not to be mean or insult skylanders lovers... but its more like BOO time.

Part 1/4:

Quote: Razz

And, just so you're aware, Cynder's not real. It's quite impossible to discriminate against a bunch of pixels.

That's why I said near discrimination. I'm already aware of the existence of CNR; I checked it and found myself agreeing to its base mentality, as well as disliking the more rabid Cynder fans that it states itself to be making fun of. (Maybe I'm a hypocrit then? Hope not. )

Quote: LevanJess

Ember is the Damsel-in-Distress when Cynder was the one who had to be rescued at least 3 times? When Ember wasn't even in trouble in any of the games (I haven't played SL, so I'm not sure on that one), and needed Spyro to help her?
She IS a snotty little know-it-all. She's "dominant" in DotD, but did you notice her attitude? Or how she pretty much told Spyro to "get over it and get a move on!" when Ignitus died?

Nothing wrong with her attitude as far as I've seen; the part after Ignitus' death I blame on a poorly VA'd line by Christina Ricci; she wasn't exactly on Wood's level in my opinion. I very much doubt the story states that she should be saying it with a vibe that makes her seem uncaring; after all isn't Ignitus the closest thing to a father figure she had too?

Quote: LevanJess

You've seen less than 2 minutes of Ember. And Cynder being dominant doesn't completely bring her out of being a whore. Not offering herself, huh? She knew Spyro less than 4 weeks by the end of DotD, and then says "I love you". That sounds like offering herself.
Sure, Ember had her flaws and "forced" herself on Spyro, sure. It's not like Ember yelled "U MUST LOVE ME!111"
Cynder didn't either, but hey, at least Ember doesn't need Spyro to save her all the time. I don't think you can say the same for Cynder.
She couldn't. But the shackles still make her look a bit whoreish.

Well, yeah. Ember didn't force Spyro to do anything in the powerful sense of the word, but in terms of dialogue she was all over him the minute they saw each other (a stereotypical fangirl reaction to a hero's presence); that's what differs her and Cynder.
As for Cynder, she was saved by Spyro numerous time throughout the series, and they spent a great amount of time both trapped in the crystal (coming back to that later) and chained to each other. It's obvious that in such a situation the relationship of two people will advance much more rapidly than in the real world, where a new couple rarely meets up more often than once a day for a few hours. Coming back to the shackles as well.

Quote: LevanJess

1. When Malefor had Spyro at the beginning of the game, he could've killed him. He didn't.
2. The shackles on Cynder. How did they get on there?
3. How did Spyro and Cynder grow up in a CRYSTAL?
4. How come in that one level where Hunter was on the other side of that building, they couldn't FLY over it?

1. Malefor is twisted in the way that he enjoys destruction (evident from laughing at watching others suffer), so obviously he wouldn't simply squish Spyro when he had his minions securely (or so he thought) capture him; he and Cynder were being sacrificed to the Golem, a fate that anyone would think to be hard to escape. A case of underestimation.
2. That's true; she didn't have them before being trapped in the crystal, and had them after being freed. This is the first thing I can't explain within reason, and probably isn't the only one. Anyway, this was one of the smaller details which I honestly didn't even notice until you pointed it out, and I still don't feel it bothering me all that much.
3. I'd explain that by saying that the crystal (crystals being the life force of dragons) gave them nutrition directly, disappearing from around them and becoming part of their body mass when they grew; sort of like embryos in a womb. That would also explain why Sparx didn't grow in size. And they survived in the first place when their bodies' biological upkeep ground to a halt, with them not having to incorporate energy, since no energy was spent.
4. I'm going to answer the general question "Why couldn't they just fly over everything and skip the platforming in the game entirely?". The answer is obvious: The game wouldn't have been a platformer then. As for story-based explanations; they're a bit on the shoddy side, but you could say the wind currents in place then didn't allow for the young, inexperienced flyers to pass the obstacles. More importantly, IMO one shouldn't let things like this bother themselves; it's for the good of the game and doesn't really ruin the experience (as far as I'm concerned, anyway).


Quote: LevanJess

The cliche storyline? I totally haven't seen the whole "A girl gets in trouble, a boy comes and saves her, she runs away, he saves her again, she falls in love with him even though he barely knows her" storylines before.
I was going to, I was waiting to see if you wanted me to.
Of course. See above sentence.

What makes it uncommon is the fact how the girl just so happened to be the final boss of the first game in the series'; not your usual scenario; though it did succumb more into the direction you pointed out later in the series, it didn't come to me as a cliché anymore thanks to the situation in the beginning. As for the "abrupt" falling-in-love, see my explanation above.

Quote: LevanJess

What an example of a Cyntard (no offense). I don't just hate her because she's overrated, or because "it's so COOL!" to hate things that are liked. That's a bad theory there, man.

Fair enough, I'm positively surprised, and sorry for thinking like that.

Quote: LevanJess

I hate her horrible attitude, her design, a majority of her fandom, her whole "Damsel-in-Distress" deal, and her personality in general.

How is this discrimination? Especially when it's pixels on a screen? And who expects her to be perfect?
For me, she is one of the worst I've seen. One reason IS her design. I don't like "sexy dragon gurls" as half of your fandom does.

Already explained my point of view on her attitude and the fandom. As for her design, if I really think into it then it may have been made a bit skanky on purpose by the designers, though this - again - is not something that instantly struck me; I was more concerned with her persona and history than her looks. [Actually, I'm surprised you didn't mention her scale colour changing from black to deep purple in the list of plotholes; another change made to improve the playability of DotD (similar to not being able to just fly everywhere; would be hard to see where Cynder is if exploring or fighting in a dark place).] Anyway, Cynder's design never happened to bother me too much; which says something since I very much dislike blatantly skanky characters.

Part 2/4:

Quote: Razz

Ember was safe and sound in Dragon Village in SL. She actually seemed to be less upset by the encroaching Shadow Realm than everyone else and got over it immediately. But, yeah, I do seem to recall Cynder needing to be rescued in ANB (pulled out of the convexity portal), in TEN (it was the whole plot and she needed rescue twice), and DotD (who turned all evil and had no willpower until some purple doofus rescued her? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ember ).

I forgot to put the tags around the word helpless in "helpless damsel in distress", that's where my emphasis was when arguing that Cynder being bold (or "rude") to Spyro was in fact a saving grace in this sense. Of course the damsel in distress part still applies, for the reasons you listed.

Quote: Razz

I'll throw this in: I liked Cynder up until DotD, but what little personality she did have went out the window in that game. When she wasn't being a nasty, snarky little smart-aleck, she was wallowing in her own (out of character) self pity, betraying her friends, completely giving in at the slightest hint of trouble, and pretty much being one of the worst stereotypes for a hormonal girl child I've ever seen. And there's no way her design wasn't meant to look skanky, especially when there was almost no dirty art of her before DotD came out but immediately after her design was revealed it was (and still is) everywhere. Cynder being skanky is pretty much all she's known for outside of the very small group of people who played DotD.

When being a 'nasty, snarky little smart-aleck' she was again showing refusal to accepting the role of the helpless girl, and the self-pity she wallowed in was IMO far from out of character for her, seeing her past of killing countless innocents. This disturbed duality of her nature is in fact more than approppriate for her; I only wonder how it isn't even more imbalanced and giving up than what was shown, her being raised and tortured by apes since her birth (emphasis on how it's her past that's affecting her, not hormones).

Quote: Razz

And I predicted everything that happened in DotD from the end of ANB (except that it would be so horrible and wouldn't even be consistent with ANB and TEN). I'm not normally that sharp (I managed to be surprised by the twist in "Psycho" in spite of it having literally been spoiled by all of American culture; same with the twist in "Empire Strikes Back"). When even I can call plot details right down to Obi Wan...I mean Ignitus biting the big one and someone being in love with someone else, you've done a bad job telling your "story".

LoS might've had an obvious storyline, but I still insist on that not necessarily being a merely bad thing. In a story with a young purple dragon and a dragoness his age adventuring apart and together you would (IMO) have to be sick (or very, VERY oversaturated by Hollywood-style stories) to wish for a hugely unexpected plot twist in the base of the story (one that would for example kill one of the main characters). There were plot twists in the series - Spyro being abruptly caught by Skavengers, the Apes attacking the Skavengers, the Destroyed proceeding even after its heart was destroyed... Everything in the plot that was unexpected is a twist in its own right, there just weren't any of the more major ones that I mentioned earlier.

Quote: Razz

You might just want to give up, LevanJess. Cyndorks don't change their minds on these things. Nothing you say will convince Silvery that Ember isn't Satan for having the audacity to like Spyro, or that Cynhder isn't a sex goddess. It'd be all well and good if we weren't all expected to agree with these things.

And here we go again with some more powerful rhethorics, though by the time you're reading this you've hopefully already noticed that I'm not as stupid as the Cyndorks your past seems to be plagued with.

Quote: CAV

And you're lowering yourself to the point of borderline fanboy/girl trying to defend a game with too many flaws to ignore, even as a fan of those games.

Are you sure it's not only you trying to force the flaws on me, wanting me to "admit" that the game series sucked? If I and many others could still enjoy it this much despite of the flaws you mention, then it's not like the game should necessarily have to be damned into the deepest pits of hell? It's not like I'm defending it only because it's cool to stand up for things being "harrassed"; would it be true then I'd be quite the hypocrit by blaming some of you for doing the opposite.


Quote: Razz

I'm glad you're honest about your bias. Just remember that SxC is not everyone's OTP. Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with it if it a) hadn't been rammed down our throats by the game (though not nearly as conclusively as everyone would like to think) and b) the fans of the pairing would be as kind to fans of other Spyro couples as they want us to be to them. You only need to block so many rabid SxC shippers from your gallery on Christmas day to feel it's a bit old. And I liked Spartan-029's first story, incidentally.

This is what I don't understand; it's not like movies that you watch let you pick who the main character falls in love with? You're viewing the LoS pairing of SxC as something that "discriminates" (pixels, heh heh) Ember and Elora. With all due respect but still cold logic, why should LoS concern itself with giving the player options on who to ship Spyro with? In what way is it "ramming it down your throats"; isn't that what every predetermined story does?

Part 3/4:

Quote: Razz

In ANB, there was nothing. In TEN, there was some subtext that Spyro might like Cynder in a doopey puppy-love kind of way, but nothing more. In DotD there was nothing until, bam!, Cynder randomly confesses her love for a guy who is a stranger to her at a time when he probably didn't hear it and in a state of mind which suggests she is confused more than anything else. It was way to sudden to be really believable unless you really want to see it that badly.

In ANB, there was Spyro recognizing the familiarity in Dark Cynder's eyes, and his expression when Ignitus told him the truth about how (Dark) Cynder came to be, an expression filled with sadness and compassion; all of this and how Spyro said Cynder is "just like him", and how he saved her. While in no way a romantical involvement this soon, these were nonetheless the baby steps of the social relationship between them.
In TEN, Spyro wakes up in the middle of the night to stop Cynder from leaving, and in the end admits to her openly that he doesn't want her to leave. The final part of the entire game is only spent tracking and saving Cynder, which further shows he cares for her (not necessarily in a romantically involved way but nonetheless cares).
In DotD, the two are chained to each other for the entire game, and as such forced to interact with each other even if they didn't want to, and them having to interact with each other, developing their relationship some more.
When you take all of this into consideration, it should hardly feel surprising or abrupt how Cynder in the end confesses her love. At least this was never the case with me and I hope my explanation sheds some light on why I am of this opinion.
One thing I can think of is the player being in a "childrens'-game-mode" of sorts when playing LoS (such as with classic Spyro games where Spyro is completely oblivious to love similar to Ash Ketchum in Pokemon and other such young main characters of various franchises), and not expecting romance to take place in the games, and Spyro and Cynder's relationship to be purely that of friendship and comfort. In that sense I imagine it would feel abrupt.

Quote: Razz

I'm afraid that's laziness talking. Something you may not know about LoS is that it was not written by writers, but by it's producers. If you'd like to see a real epic story in game form, might I suggest Portal 2 (which is based very heavily in Greek mythology), the first God of War, Okami, Beyond Good & Evil... You'll not a pretty big lack of predictability in these titles and a lot of orginality. The problem with "epic" is that most people assume it's a word that describes a cliche summer blockbuster when, in fact, it is a specific form of Western story telling. There's a good way to tell an epic and a bad way. LoS is not the good way. Yes, LoS has some redeeming qualities, but its story is not one of them.

This is why I - again - comfortably slid some responsibility off my shoulders by saying "near direct relativity". It would be strange if there weren't exceptions to that rule; it's not like epicness or clichéness are mathematically measurable variables or anything. ;p But I feel what I said is true in the average case, and that alone proves my point: The story in LoS might've had its share of clichés, but it wasn't totally in vain. Of course, would we be striving towards perfection, then the direct relativity I mentioned could be further defied to achieve an epic story with less clichés, but it's not exactly the simplest of feats, and in the end I personally didn't find said clichés too disturbing. That's me though, I guess.

Quote: Razz

No choice at all is not a right choice. And I can tell you that there are more unpredictable movies/novels than predictable ones, I'm just guessing you haven't encountered them yet. You're working off a bit of a flawed premise on this one. Now your last sentence is dead on! That's the best reason to like anything. It's when you argue that there's some other reason besides "I like it" that people get up in arms. You're trying to tell us why we should like based on your experiences, which are not ours. I fully support you liking SxC because you do, but I don't supporting being told I need to like SxC because of observations that may or may not be true.

Would you have seen the development of my conversations here you might understand me better. My side (and hopefully one that's not too biased) is something like:
Me: OMGOMG I just played TLoS through and I LOVED IT!!! *essay*
Others: LOL LoS/SxC sucks
Me: ???
Others: It sucks, I didn't like it because blah blah
Me: No it doesn't! I liked it because yada yada
*more and more people jump on the bandwagon, in the end I have to reply to 5 people*

While since I was so enamored by the games in the beginning, some might've taken my praising of the game as an attempt of intruding their own beliefs and forcing them to change their opinion. That being true isn't entirely out of the options either, since I was so convinced that it was awesome and whatnot (and I still am, though my first hype has settled down a bit). But it's not like the people arguing with me are any less guilty of doing the opposite at me, trying to convince me that the series sucked, and feeling that it is the righteous thing to do since "they are right". I hope you understand how biased it feels that I should be the one being considerate of the other side and not force my opinion, while the other side can just use rhethorics to their full extent in trying to force their opinion on me. o_o

Quote: Razz

Haha! Oh, goodness. You don't know me at all. I was drawn to Spyro because it was a brightly colored game where you could play as a dragon and it was super fun to play (this is the original Spyro, btw). I only played LoS at all, ironically, because of Cynder. Even so, I never could take the overwrought faux epic seriously when I actually played it. As for SxC being dumped on the players, it destroyed my suspension of disbelief entirely. I was in favor of the pairing in ANB and TEN since it was plausible that they could wind up together way down the road when they grew up. Telling us that a pair of preteens who barely known each other are in love is what I like to call some serious BS.

That's quite exactly what I meant: a brightly coloured, carefree game where you can kill other beings without feeling bad; with no love, stress or similar emotions shadowing it. Apologies for not being more elaborate in the first place. As for the SxC part, I already explained my reasoning on it being believable earlier in this post.