darkSpyro

I agree to the part that DOTD weren't that great, but to me, I don't think that TLOS was doing very well with Krome either. It didn't do much for me, and also it didn't do much for other people.

I agree, that is what attracted me to A New Beginning at first.

Like I said, even at it's best, LoS was mediocre. A number of Spyro fans agree and almost everyone else who isn't a Spyro fan agrees. The critical reception of the LoS franchise backs that one up.

That being said, DotD was even worse. It wasn't just mediocre, it was bad.

Yeah I guess so.

I'd like to say that they are both just as bad. Although I don't like the TLOS series, I wouldn't mind having a go at A New Beginning again.

EtD was really bad and even less fun to play than DotD, at least for me, but it at least never got anyone's hopes up. I think everyone knew that one wasn't going to be great from the start. DotD, however, was supposed to improve on what we'd seen before in LoS and be a great finish to a trilogy. What we got was a poorly written, obviously rushed game that didn't even feel like it had anything to do with its predecessors, makes no sense storywise if you didn't play ANB and TEN (which most DotD players didn't), and was a giant punch in the mouth to everyone who's ever played a Spyro game, especially the fans of the LoS trilogy.

At least that's how I felt at the time (and that was when I was trying my darnedest to like the stupid thing).

That's why I think they're both as bad in the respect of them both being rushed.

Quote: Razz

Like I said, even at it's best, LoS was mediocre. A number of Spyro fans agree and almost everyone else who isn't a Spyro fan agrees. The critical reception of the LoS franchise backs that one up.

That being said, DotD was even worse. It wasn't just mediocre, it was bad.

I agree with this.

If it was Krome who made DotD, this game would be a hit! Without all those plotholes, stupid moments, growing up in crystal... But this is "what if" thinking... I wan Krome DotD. Anybody is a pro in programming?

If Krome Studios developed DOTD, to me it would be just as bad, end of story.

I think DotD might've been marginally better if Krome had been allowed to finish it. At the very least, it would have had consistent art design, recognizable character designs, and there would possibly have been more time to fix the holes left in the story (many of which are said to be there, according to Mike Graham himself, because of the game's rushed nature). I doubt it would've been any better than the other two games, but I would've been better than what it was.

It doesn't make much difference to me.

Quote: Razz

I think DotD might've been marginally better if Krome had been allowed to finish it. At the very least, it would have had consistent art design, recognizable character designs, and there would possibly have been more time to fix the holes left in the story (many of which are said to be there, according to Mike Graham himself, because of the game's rushed nature). I doubt it would've been any better than the other two games, but I would've been better than what it was.

I agree, Krome should have finished it. Particularly on the consistent art style, it caused so much confusion, and so many people think they 'grew up' in the crystal despite one of the staff (can't remember who) informing us that it was just a mistake/difference in character art.

I would have loved to see a DotD Hunter, Krome style.

Well how do you know what Hunter would have looked like in Krome style?

I don't, all the more fun of seeing it

Quote: Razz

EtD was really bad and even less fun to play than DotD, at least for me, but it at least never got anyone's hopes up. I think everyone knew that one wasn't going to be great from the start. DotD, however, was supposed to improve on what we'd seen before in LoS and be a great finish to a trilogy. What we got was a poorly written, obviously rushed game that didn't even feel like it had anything to do with its predecessors, makes no sense storywise if you didn't play ANB and TEN (which most DotD players didn't), and was a giant punch in the mouth to everyone who's ever played a Spyro game, especially the fans of the LoS trilogy.

At least that's how I felt at the time (and that was when I was trying my darnedest to like the stupid thing).

Actually, most TLOS fans loved DOTD, and believe it's the best game in the triolgy, and the best Spyro game.....

There answer is always the same. "Because you can fly!" "Because you can play as Cynder!". It's like the don't care about the actual game at all, and only love it because of the features.... >_<

Quote: GamingMaster_76

^I agree. Krome will be missed. Until DoTD, TLoS was actually doing pretty well IMO.

Bad upgrades/unlockables, medicore controls, too many changes, bad characters, everything is wrong, way too many plotholes, too much that failed, tried too hard to be dramatic, not enough in the game, and the Wii version is absolutely horrid compared to the other versions- including the DS version, which I actually enjoyed. (But yeah, that's taking away the things I like from the game.) Oh, and you can rarely use your abilities to their full extent, because either the enemies are too strong and kill you in two hits or they're too easy, or you can just button mash randomly.

The Wii version was horrible. You had to keep that numchuck strait otherwise Spyro/Cynder will do that Wing Shield ability. And the characters sounded like they were speaking through a microphone. It echoed, and sometimes muffled.

Quote:

The Wii version was horrible. You had to keep that numchuck strait otherwise Spyro/Cynder will do that Wing Shield ability. And the characters sounded like they were speaking through a microphone. It echoed, and sometimes muffled.

Agreed X 999,999,999,999. I hate the Wii version, especially considering that it constantly freezes. The only reason I said 'compared to the other versions' is because there are much worse games out there.
Also, you misspelt Nunchuck.

Ugh, that thing got on my nerves. I'd be flying along, and then BAM, Spyro stops flying or attacking and does his wing shield.


I don't think I ever used that shield in the game (minus the times it forced me to).

I'm so glad I had the PS2 version, then. o.O

In regards to the flying: I love how everyone says it's great when, in fact, it doesn't even work as well as the flying levels from the first game on the PS1. I hated flying in DotD.

I'm pretty sure the real reason people like DotD is because they got to play as Cynder and because she said the "l" word at the end. Every other person who isn't a Spyro fan (especially a LoS fan) hated this game. Most reviews of it are negative and everyone I know who's played the game outside the fandom thinks its crap.

I was disappointed in flying too. Most of the time it was quicker to just run everywhere, loads of hidden barriers for no reason (Twilight Falls comes to mind - Nothing in front of me, yet I'm not allowed to go any further because there's a tree underneath the screen).

And I also believe that too.

Although I must admit, I really hate how people try and 'hide' the plotholes in the game by making excuses.

Agreed. I can understand needing to fill in a few things, but the LoS fans are required to fill in the blanks for at least half the story because it was never addressed in the games. That's just sad (and further proof that producers should not write your game's story).

Am I the only one who uses a Classic Controller for their Wii?

The flying wasn't the problem in DotD, it was the wind and the barriers. On the Destroyer, you could fly up for a while without stopping, and proved that there was nothing wrong with the flying controls themselves, it's just those barriers pull you down in a lot of areas.

The DotD flying was fine for the purpose it served, as was the StD flying. But put StD flying in DotD or vice versa and then it will be a nightmare.

StD flying in DotD would've been awesome. You could fly anywhere (because StD flying handles almost the same as DotD flying, only you can go anywhere or earn the ability to fly higher as you wish). If DotD had StD flying, it wouldn't have been so bad.

But you couldn't stop or even effectively slow down while flying and the camera always tried to stay behind Spyro's tail. It's fine in a bare level designed for speedrunning, but in levels that require exploration and have more in them, it would be a nightmare. Also, it would ruin the co-op mode. AND fighting would be impossible.

If DotD didn't have any platforming, co-op or fighting, it would probably have been designed with levels that are catered for StD style flying. Also, you couldn't go anywhere, there was an invisible roof that prevented you from getting on top of mountains and what not(although I glitched my way on top of the cliffs in Sunny Flight) and there was an invisble wall too. StD flying handles nothing like DotD flying.

StD flying: Spyro flys straight automatically at a high speed, and you use the control stick to turn and adjust trajectory. You use the shoulder buttons to tilt to the side and to perform loop tricks. Tap the X button to beat your wings. In Spyro 1, this seemingly does nothing. If you fly straight up, a great amount of speed is lost, similar to flying in Super Mario 64. If there is no player input, Spyro flies straight. To land, fly into the ground or start charging. Press O to flame.

DotD flying: (Using Xbox 360 version) Tap A to beat your wings, giving you upward momentum if done repeatedly. Use the control stick to move around freely. If there is no player input while flying, you will gently land. Other methods of landing are holding A to start gliding, B to attempt to grab, which automatically stops flight mode, or a forward or backwards dodge using the LB button and the control stick(the best method, IMO) or holding the opposite direction you are facing. You can also dodge side to side. Press A rapidly while holding a direction on the control stick to pick up momentum. You will do a barrel roll and get a good boost if you do it fast enough. All your combat moves are available during flight. Just like when walking, the further you tilt the control stick, the faster Spyro/Cynder will fly, but if you want real speed, tapping A is a must.

If the flying was like StD in DotD, plus no limitations, there would be no platforming and the Classic fans would hate it even more.

Yes you could. Just press the triangle button and you've stopped. I don't remember being able to stop flying in DotD beyond just stopping the same way.

I'm guessing you never finished the game 100% and got to the final flight level, Gnasty's Loot. It involved some platforming along with the flying. We saw similar things with the mini games in the flight levels in RR and YotD.

The barriers in DotD aren't separate from the flying for most players. If I can't go anywhere without slamming into an invisible wall and if flying is just like walking (which it was for me) then I'm not going to think it was very well done. It was just like flying in Gnasty's Loot, only crappy instead of fun, as far as I'm concerned, and I thought this way even when I was trying to like DotD. It was a letdown, especially after they'd built it up as being some great thing. I've had more fun flying in a Super Mario game, honestly.

I can't finish it 100% because my game keeps freezing whenever I try to free a certain dragon in Haunted Towers(and it's not THAT dragon). I've done everything else though. I've seen Gnasty's loot via Youtube and I didn't see any real platforming. The player only landed when he needed to go inside or light a firework because, as I've said before, StD flying is not well suited to exploration or tight areas, but speedrunning.

By stopping, I meant staying still while still being in middair. What you're describing is landing(which I forgot to mention in my previous post).

In RR and YotD, you just flew to the character who hosts the minigame, talked to them and then played said minigame, which was either a flying race or a unique minigame with a unique control scheme. No platforming there.

I initially didn't like the flying in DotD, but I got used to it in the Valley of Avalar, worked out all the kinks and then I loved it as I was flying without problems. The invisible barriers were in places I knew would be out of bounds, with one or two exceptions. The only reason I don't like the invisible walls in some areas is because I love glitching, and there is no pass through walls glitch in DotD.

I gotta say, I feel bad giving Dawn of the Dragon an 8.5/10 in the reviews topic. I think about 3 weeks later after playing DotD I saw the flaws and just had to return it, for it had killed the only good thing TLoS had. :/

First off I like TLoS music and was anticipated for the new music in DotD. Turns out we got 98% remixed music of the other games, and the new music wasn't that fun to hear (the only ones I liked was the battle with the golem at the Dragon City and the Burned Lands fighting music)

Second, well many of you had said it, but the characters have changed. No one was light hearted or cheerful in the game, heck even TEN had silly moments in 'the darkest of times'. Dark Spyro, even if he was engulfed with evil, had fun battling with Gaul (when he flew in the tornado, he went "Woohoo!" it may be silly to enjoy being tossed by a twister but hey, it was fun for him x] ). Now in DotD its all serious business, I think the only ones who broke the serious tone was Sparx and Cynderp. Spyro was there just to look [almost] heroic and whine about no one being there for him. And on the side note, I was disappointed with the appearance of Malefor. In TEN we got a cool demon dragon who looked boss, in DotD it looked like his father's father came back to life with a slurred speech.

Lastly, obviously the plot. It's been covered many times so we now how much the plot failed :b

I prefer the flying in the Original Spyro games, it was a lot more fun and I liked the speed, and the fact that the camera stayed behind Spyro, where else do you want it to be? In Dawn of the Dragon I keep on getting awkward camera views, where the camera kept moving to the side of Spyro, that wasn't any good. I thought that he moved too slow and everytime I wanted to try and fly away from an elite enemy, no matter how fast I pressed the Jump button to get away, I still somehow get hit, because it's too slow. I must admit, The Valley of Avalar is a great level, and the developer got the platforming elements just right. I still find the flying in that game hard to control, when you turn left or right, it feels like you're trying to turn a big tank that's very sluggish left or right, takes too long to land down, even when I press the button to land, it's nothing fantastic. The Original Spyro flying was a lot more active and quicker when it comes to landing, and a lot easier on the turning, I just done a level on Year of the Dragon which was Crystal Islands, and you can go through an upgrade to fly everywhere, and that was fantastic. No problems at all.

re: DotD flying
When could you stop in the air? The best I got was slowly circling. It was annoying as sin.

Glass Gryphon, you've got it. Those are some of the (many) things that bugged me about LoS. Especially the lack of humor. There were a few times in ANB/TEN when I got some laughs. With DotD, I think one thing Sparx said was vaguely amusing (same with Cynder) and the rest of the time I just wanted them all to shut up because they were annoying.

SuperSpyroFan said most of what I hated about the flying in DotD. In the older games, there's a nice control scheme that requires good timing and precision. It always really felt like I thought flying should feel in a game and I've seen numerous other games copy it. With DotD, flying didn't feel any more interesting than walking. I got really sick of constantly having to land and run because it was often faster. And the way the dragons moved was just pathetic; it really was like trying to control a barge, only a lot clumsier.

I'm not saying the StD flying was bad, nor am I saying DotD's flying is bad. I'm just saying DotD's flying would be bad in a speedway type setting, and that StD's flying would be bad in the DotD levels, which require exploration. Both of the systems work extremly well for the purpose they were made for, and only that. If you swapped them around things would be really awkward.

I like StD flying for it's simple, speedrun oriented nature. Oh, and the loop move!
I like DotD's flying because you can fly at your own pace, and because there is a sense of momentum and realism.

Razz, DotD's flying didn't feel at all like walking for me, but that could be because we both have different versions of the game.

Yeah, we are definitely at a disagreement here. I think DotD's flight was horrible on its own and can't really see where you're coming from with saying it was good. I've played many flight games (dragon and otherwise) and the only game I know of which is comparable in badness when it comes to flight is Dragon Rage (which is bad on multiple levels and was probably meant to be a PS1 game; the flight controls are the same as DotDs, except you never land, and it's horrible to play).

Honestly, I just can't separate DotD's flying (which still controls badly by itself) from its levels (which are terrible in terms of design and limitations). If DotD had been half the game we were promised, it would've had flying not unlike StD's.

Heck, in ANB, we actually had several flight levels which were similar to the StD flight levels and fans really liked those. If DotD had just done that instead of their "free flight" garbage, I think it would have been better.

I liked the free flight. I didn't like ANB's flight levels too much though. It was way too controlled. It flew for you, and all you just did was speed up and slow down, with a little rolls thrown in there.

I haven't played ANB, but the flying looks like a Starfox clone. Not that it's a bad thing.

Quote: Razz

Yeah, we are definitely at a disagreement here. I think DotD's flight was horrible on its own and can't really see where you're coming from with saying it was good. I've played many flight games (dragon and otherwise) and the only game I know of which is comparable in badness when it comes to flight is Dragon Rage (which is bad on multiple levels and was probably meant to be a PS1 game; the flight controls are the same as DotDs, except you never land, and it's horrible to play).

My thoughts exactly - And the exact same game came to mind as a reference. I love Cael Cyndar, but the game itself is poor. But the flying reminded me of DotD.


I found StD's flying much more efficient, you just have to be really good at games to keep up with him and look around. I went flying in the other levels too (GS ftw) and it's just amazing in comparison to DotD.

StD's flying is great, and I am skilled with it, but it just wouldn't work in the more complex or small levels of DotD. I just like both flight systems.

I disagree about the DotD levels being complex. Convoluted, unnecessarily cluttered, sure. But complex? Hardly. If you strip away the shiny environmental paint that is the art of the levels, you're left with some very dull design. As a lifelong platformer, I found it annoying at best.

I said MORE complex. Their not that complicated(good thing) but they are definitly more complicated than the speedways, even the normal levels of Classic Spyro.

I wouldn't go that far, in my opinion, I really didn't think nothing much of the levels, when I passed a level and went to the next, I thought "Was that it? Hardly rocket science to get through that" The only thing that seems to slow me down are the pain in the ass enemies.

Again, MORE complex than the OLD Spyro games, but not complex per se.

Again, completely disagree. The classic Spyro levels allowed for a ton of exploration, to the point where, even after a decade, a lot of people are still finding new things in them. Most of the old Spyro levels were tons bigger and had a lot more to do and more to explore. They were much better platforming areas as well.

Compare the Valley of Avalar in DotD with Sgt. Byrd's Base in YotD. Sgt. Byrd's level is a lot bigger than any level in DotD, you can go back to areas in it as often as you like, and it's not even one of the bigger levels from the classic games. It's also a lot more inventive in terms of environment and won't give you a headache from the pointless overuse of the bloom effect.

One main selling point of Classic Spyro was it's simplicity. I honestly think the newer ones are more complex. The old ones were just more plain and basic but still great. Big doesn't mean complex. GTA4's Liberty City is huge, but it is really just a load of bland roads connected together.

You're young and didn't grow up with gaming tech, so I'll let that slide. Believe me, when it came out, the original Spyro game wasn't just a cute kids' game, it was actually innovative and introduced things that hadn't been seen in games prior.

I still hold that everything about it was more interesting, more complex, more creative, and most of all, more fun (as in, actually fun) than anything in LoS. All of LoS, but especially DotD, was nothing new in any way and was just a sad aping of other, far more successful games without any of the things that made those games successful.

The only people who have these discussions about the good vs bad of the classics and LoS are Spyro fans. Why? Because every other person who's ever played a Spyro game and loved it but didn't go on to be a fan like us hates the new games. When compared against the innovation and fun of the originals, the Spyro franchise after them and LoS in particular is just trash in every possible way from story to gameplay.

And, seriously, guys. This a DotD hate topic. Why are we having to defend our position on this? That's not what this topic is for. Frankly, I'm getting tired of talking about the flight. It sucks. Nothing anyone says will change my mind. I played the game, too, you recall, and I thought it was garbage. It's cool if you liked it, but that's not what we're here to discuss. If you want to go in an endless circle (or at least go until every one on this topic just ignores you), whatever floats your boat, I guess, but it's entirely pointless. Arguing about it all isn't winning anyone to your side here.

I've never really found the classic games simple, considering they require you to think about your next move. LoS games, however, I do. You can get away with just smashing away at a button, at max you need to work out a boss pattern but that's all.

DotD is by far the most simplistic game I've ever played in the Spyro series - No need to go looking for items (Yeah they help, but really, the armor is useless unless you're really bad at gaming), and the game has some of the easiest bosses I've played in ages. TEN at least gave me a little challenge.