darkSpyro

Roy is easy for me.

I just got the DLC Collection #2. Some great content here.

I've been trying to get the hang of ROB and DK.

I play Bowser a lot, I can time things pretty well. I also play Captain Falcon a good amount.

Roy has become my favorite and best character. Ryu is also a favorite. While I found him tricky to use at first, I quickly got the hang of it and do pretty well with him.

Quote: Matteomax

Ryu is difficult to use for many since he has his button input moves, which is the key to unlocking his true playstyle; combos.

pls dont use a semicolon if you dont know how kthx

CAV are we gonna fite or wat

Quote: ZapNorris

CAV are we gonna fite or wat

are WE gonna fight or not?

Quote: ZapNorris

CAV are we gonna fite or wat

If you're still down to fight I'm available.

So EVO came and went. ZeRo predictably won.

Also, Bill Trinen had to drop out due to Iwata's sudden passing, as he had to attend the funeral instead.

Zero's victory also means he may drop Smash 4 in favor of Melee. A while ago he made a promise to someone saying such. This could make the Smash scene more interesting as it won't be just one guy winning all the time.

Quote: CAV

Zero's victory also means he may drop Smash 4 in favor of Melee. A while ago he made a promise to someone saying such. This could make the Smash scene more interesting as it won't be just one guy winning all the time.

IIRC he didn't say he would entirely drop Smash 4, he'd just star playing Melee.

I'm sure he might take a break, but I doubt he will drop Smash 4. Winning Smash 4 tournaments is more than paying his bills.

Makes sense. From what I hear he was fairly good in Melee, but not far enough in the ranks to where he could comfortably make a living off it.

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

Unused potential is basically dedede.

Smashified just released their new Bomberman render.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

He's fairly low.

He can get some super early KOs, but you would have to have real slow reaction times to get hit by any of them, and in general he's nowhere near as good as he was in Brawl.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Mrmorrises

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

He's fairly low.

He can get some super early KOs, but you would have to have real slow reaction times to get hit by any of them, and in general he's nowhere near as good as he was in Brawl.

How do you think he compares to the other heavyweights (DK, Bowser, and Ganondorf)?

I know most people would consider him to be better than Charizard so I won't bother asking about him.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Mrmorrises

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

He's fairly low.

He can get some super early KOs, but you would have to have real slow reaction times to get hit by any of them, and in general he's nowhere near as good as he was in Brawl.

How do you think he compares to the other heavyweights (DK, Bowser, and Ganondorf)?

I know most people would consider him to be better than Charizard so I won't bother asking about him.

Actually, I'd easily say Charizard is better than Dedede. Charizard is very viable after the recent buffs he got. He has a combo throw (down throw) and a KO throw (up throw), and his KO throw is about as strong as Ness's back throw in terms of knockback, but it also has the same property as Kirby's and Meta Knights in that he flies off screen and lands on the first piece of ground he hits, meaning you can start the throw from the bottom platform of a stage, but land on the top platform at the end of the animation, and since the move launches upwards, you can get some seriously early KOs that way.

Dedede might be a little better than Ganondorf and DK, though I don't have a full opinion. Bowser and Charizard are well above those guys though. Bowser has always been fairly good, and he's even been buffed across patches so he's only improved since launch. Charizard was initially terrible, but his recent buffs (the throw buffs aren't the only buffs he got) have done wonders for him. He's easily mid-tier now.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: sonicbrawler182

He's fairly low.

He can get some super early KOs, but you would have to have real slow reaction times to get hit by any of them, and in general he's nowhere near as good as he was in Brawl.

How do you think he compares to the other heavyweights (DK, Bowser, and Ganondorf)?

I know most people would consider him to be better than Charizard so I won't bother asking about him.

Actually, I'd easily say Charizard is better than Dedede. Charizard is very viable after the recent buffs he got. He has a combo throw (down throw) and a KO throw (up throw), and his KO throw is about as strong as Ness's back throw in terms of knockback, but it also has the same property as Kirby's and Meta Knights in that he flies off screen and lands on the first piece of ground he hits, meaning you can start the throw from the bottom platform of a stage, but land on the top platform at the end of the animation, and since the move launches upwards, you can get some seriously early KOs that way.

Dedede might be a little better than Ganondorf and DK, though I don't have a full opinion. Bowser and Charizard are well above those guys though. Bowser has always been fairly good, and he's even been buffed across patches so he's only improved since launch. Charizard was initially terrible, but his recent buffs (the throw buffs aren't the only buffs he got) have done wonders for him. He's easily mid-tier now.

So that would put Bowser at Upper-Mid tier, Charizard at mid, Dedede around low, and DK and Ganondorf lower in the low.

I guess I was a bit stuck in the past for putting Charizard down there, his U-throw is incredible.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Actually, I'd easily say Charizard is better than Dedede. Charizard is very viable after the recent buffs he got. He has a combo throw (down throw) and a KO throw (up throw), and his KO throw is about as strong as Ness's back throw in terms of knockback

Da***.

Is there and way that Tails will make it into smash? I mean they have Sonic.

Quote: Camo22

Is there and way that Tails will make it into smash? I mean they have Sonic.

He's not impossible, but he's pretty unlikely. I personally don't think he'll get in.

Quote: Camo22

Is there and way that Tails will make it into smash? I mean they have Sonic.

I wouldn't count on it if I were you. Capcom managed to get two reps but it's worth noting they're from different franchises. I imagine if Sega got another, it would not be a Sonic character.

Quote: CAV

Quote: Camo22

Is there and way that Tails will make it into smash? I mean they have Sonic.

I wouldn't count on it if I were you. Capcom managed to get two reps but it's worth noting they're from different franchises. I imagine if Sega got another, it would not be a Sonic character.

Persona 5 antagonist please (Persona and Atlus are SEGA property :3)

^That would be interesting, but with Persona never having had much presence on Nintendo (Persona Q is the only game I can think of) and largely being a Sony exclusive franchise, it probably won't happen. We'd sooner see NiGHTS or Bayonetta.

Quote: CAV

^That would be interesting, but with Persona never having had much presence on Nintendo (Persona Q is the only game I can think of) and largely being a Sony exclusive franchise, it probably won't happen. We'd sooner see NiGHTS or Bayonetta.

Kidding about Persona, although NiGHTS would be amazing.

Starting to think that, now that Activision teamed up with Nintendo for the Skylanders/Amiibo crossover, we could possibly see Activision owned characters get into Smash. Just a thought.

*coughCrashOrSpyrocough*

I don't think that means anything. Not every deal is two way.

Quote: LunarDistortion

Smashified just released their new Bomberman render.

That looks simply glorious I would love it if Bomberman got in Smash. In fact he's one of the many candidates I want to see in SMash along with a pretty few others I already suggested here.

Remember when there was huge speculation about Ridley being a playable fighter?

Quote: Mrmorrises

Remember when there was huge speculation about Ridley being a playable fighter?

Remember all of the people who had common sense and knew he wouldn't be

I still see no reason why Ridley couldn't have been a fighter in Smash 4, but it's long over so I don't feel like getting into anymore arguments about it.

This is why Ridley isn't in Smash:

I feel like the Pyrosphere stage is just there to prove why Ridley shouldn't be playable. Whenever I play there, once Ridley shows up, everyone who is not his ally gets destroyed. It's barely even a fight anymore. Even if they somehow made him smaller he would be ridiculously powerful and not at all fun to fight.

The only reason I want to see Ridley playable is to piss off those who don't want him in.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Mrmorrises

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

He's fairly low.

He can get some super early KOs, but you would have to have real slow reaction times to get hit by any of them, and in general he's nowhere near as good as he was in Brawl.

I know he's low tier, but... ... Why can't I beat him online!?!

Also, people were doing mains earlier, so...

1: Bowser
2: Wario
3: Yoshi
4: Mewtwo
5: Little Mac
6: Rosalina and Luma
7: Mr. Game and Watch

One last thing... is it wrong that I noticed that Ness and Lucas' forward smash can deflect projectiles just recently?

Quote: MugoUrth

The only reason I want to see Ridley playable is to piss off those who don't want him in.

Reveal Spoiler

Well that, and because he's not human.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Mrmorrises

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

He's fairly low.

He can get some super early KOs, but you would have to have real slow reaction times to get hit by any of them, and in general he's nowhere near as good as he was in Brawl.

I know he's low tier, but... ... Why can't I beat him online!?!


One last thing... is it wrong that I noticed that Ness and Lucas' forward smash can deflect projectiles just recently?

1: Maybe you just don't play good against D3

2: Yep, they can deflect villagers bowling balls as he drops them actually.

Quote: MugoUrth

The only reason I want to see Ridley playable is to piss off those who don't want him in.

Reveal Spoiler

Well that, and because he's not human.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Mrmorrises

Any opinions regarding King Dedede's tier placement in Smash 4? I haven't heard much about him at all.

He's fairly low.

He can get some super early KOs, but you would have to have real slow reaction times to get hit by any of them, and in general he's nowhere near as good as he was in Brawl.

I know he's low tier, but... ... Why can't I beat him online!?!

Also, people were doing mains earlier, so...

1: Bowser
2: Wario
3: Yoshi
4: Mewtwo
5: Little Mac
6: Rosalina and Luma
7: Mr. Game and Watch

One last thing... is it wrong that I noticed that Ness and Lucas' forward smash can deflect projectiles just recently?

Dedede can be difficult to beat online for some characters. I've been playing quite a bit of Mr. Game and Watch recently, and I've found that his biggest weakness is fighting characters with large smash attacks (ie. Dedede, Link, Bowser).

Quote: awesomerockets

I feel like the Pyrosphere stage is just there to prove why Ridley shouldn't be playable. Whenever I play there, once Ridley shows up, everyone who is not his ally gets destroyed. It's barely even a fight anymore. Even if they somehow made him smaller he would be ridiculously powerful and not at all fun to fight.

He's like that because he's a boss. Ganondorf could also realistically kill everyone on the battlefield easily, but they toned down his powers to fit inside of a fighting game. His Other M model could work well with scaling him down much more than the Brawl model, as seen in this Brawl mod. Sure, he's a bit too powerful even in that mod, but with some tweaks he could work.

Like I said earlier though, there's not much use fighting about it. He's not in and he's not getting in. I'll wait until Smash 5 to support him again.

^Palutena could also kill everyone on the battlefield, but w/e

The reason Sakurai didn't include Ridley was because he was too big. Not even trying to be a troll here.

And before anyone brings up the Bowser or Kirby arguments - it's a proportions thing. Ridley is supposed to look absolutely massive compared to Samus. Making him near her size would just look wrong and would take away from how intimidating he is supposed to look.

Every other character that has their size changed still looks their proper size relative to their home stage and other characters in their series, which seems to be Sakurai's general goal. Kirby characters may be massively scaled up on the Mario stages, but on the Kirby stages, non-Kirby characters are actually scaled down relative to Kirby. While there are discrepencies, particularly with characters who have an officially confirmed/fan deduced canon size (Rosalina is still noticeably shorter in Smash than she is in Galaxy, as she is only a little bit taller than Peach in Smash, while she towers over Peach in Galaxy, and she actually should be even taller than Ganondorf by like 4cm, yet Ganondorf is taller in Smash - but she still towers over Mario in Smash, which is the main thing Sakurai was aiming for), and while I do think some characters have some amazing liberties taken even between franchises (Sonic is the tallest of "the big four" in Smash, yet canonically, he should be the shortest, or at least shorter than Mario and Mega Man), most of the characters that have their size played with in Smash are both cartoony and symmetrical, and also humanoid. Ridley is none of these things, meaning you can't simply scale him down in a 3D model editor and call it a night. His anatomy is built around his large size. It doesn't translate well into making him smaller (no, that Project M mod is not a good example, it only backs up my point).

I don't care for Ridley either way, so I'm unbiased. But as a game designer myself, and as someone who has worked with 3D models and animation, I understand exactly why Ridley isn't in Smash as a playable fighter, and Sakurai has said as much. You would have to change him up to a point where he isn't Ridley anymore.

Besides, I don't get why people don't want him as a boss - there are many giant characters like him I would love to as Smash bosses. I wish the game actually had more stage bosses, so we could have had enough for a Boss Rush Mode. I loved all of the bosses in Subspace Emissary. I particularly would love to fight more legendary Pokémon like Rayquaza as bosses.

Quote:

Quote: Mesuxelf

^Palutena could also kill everyone on the battlefield, but w/e

There are many, many characters that out class Palutena in Smash, going by canon abilities. She is a goddess, but she isn't a particularly powerful one.

Ridley would look like a stick with a Funko pop head.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

The reason Sakurai didn't include Ridley was because he was too big. Not even trying to be a troll here.

And before anyone brings up the Bowser or Kirby arguments - it's a proportions thing. Ridley is supposed to look absolutely massive compared to Samus. Making him near her size would just look wrong and would take away from how intimidating he is supposed to look.

Every other character that has their size changed still looks their proper size relative to their home stage and other characters in their series, which seems to be Sakurai's general goal. Kirby characters may be massively scaled up on the Mario stages, but on the Kirby stages, non-Kirby characters are actually scaled down relative to Kirby. While there are discrepencies, particularly with characters who have an officially confirmed/fan deduced canon size (Rosalina is still noticeably shorter in Smash than she is in Galaxy, as she is only a little bit taller than Peach in Smash, while she towers over Peach in Galaxy, and she actually should be even taller than Ganondorf by like 4cm, yet Ganondorf is taller in Smash - but she still towers over Mario in Smash, which is the main thing Sakurai was aiming for), and while I do think some characters have some amazing liberties taken even between franchises (Sonic is the tallest of "the big four" in Smash, yet canonically, he should be the shortest, or at least shorter than Mario and Mega Man), most of the characters that have their size played with in Smash are both cartoony and symmetrical, and also humanoid. Ridley is none of these things, meaning you can't simply scale him down in a 3D model editor and call it a night. His anatomy is built around his large size. It doesn't translate well into making him smaller (no, that Project M mod is not a good example, it only backs up my point).

I don't care for Ridley either way, so I'm unbiased. But as a game designer myself, and as someone who has worked with 3D models and animation, I understand exactly why Ridley isn't in Smash as a playable fighter, and Sakurai has said as much. You would have to change him up to a point where he isn't Ridley anymore.

Besides, I don't get why people don't want him as a boss - there are many giant characters like him I would love to as Smash bosses. I wish the game actually had more stage bosses, so we could have had enough for a Boss Rush Mode. I loved all of the bosses in Subspace Emissary. I particularly would love to fight more legendary Pokémon like Rayquaza as bosses.

Quote:

Quote: Mesuxelf

^Palutena could also kill everyone on the battlefield, but w/e

There are many, many characters that out class Palutena in Smash, going by canon abilities. She is a goddess, but she isn't a particularly powerful one.

Rosalina isn't that much taller than Peach, the reason why she'll look taller is because she's floating, not standing. When (rarely) standing, she's about the same height, maybe a tad taller.


Anyway, as much as I'd love him in Smash, we likely won't get Ridley for a while.

Also, yes, while Palutena is a goddess, she doesn't seem that powerful canon wise compared to Dyntos or Hades. Maybe because she's (likely) younger then the two I mentioned, but not even Palutena could beat all the characters.

I understand a lot of your points, Brawler. While I still don't think it would be impossible to put him in, he's not in Smash 4, he's not getting in as DLC, and if Sakurai is still director of Smash 5 he's most likely not going to be in that one either. (Even if he's not, there's no telling if the new director would even consider him, let alone put enough priority on him to make him work).

Rosalina is canonically 7'7", Peach is only 6'1". That's not what I call "about the same size". And Rosalina often brushes off the ground while floating anyway.



If for some reason you still don't believe this, boot up Galaxy, walk directly in front of Rosalina, and enter first person mode. Mario's eyes are literally just about level with Rosalina's crotch.

Also as far as Palutena's power goes, let's just say that in her trailer for Smash, she literally says "I won't hold back from anyone!". Meanwhile, Sakurai had to go out of his way to clarify that Rosalina is using her gravitational powers to make herself lighter so fighters have an easier time dealing with her, and also clarified that she is non-chalant to the "damage" she takes.

- - -

As said before, I understand why Ridley isn't in the game. I don't personally care for Ridley much (I don't use heavyweights often), but I wouldn't mind him in the game if the dev team somehow managed to make him work in the future.

And there's a good list of people I'd rather see get in sooner.

- - -

^ Alpharad eue

Roysalina.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Roysalina.

Are you jealous, SonicBrawler?