darkSpyro

Thanks razz you're so wise sometimes. by the I'm an only child.

Also I forgot to put in post 48 that another reason was that spyro killed gaul.

Dude, getting fussed over one minor plot element is NOTHING when it comes down to game enjoyment.

Somehow, this is reminding me of my situation with the Jak fandom at its peak again. I considered ditching the fandom all due to the heavy changes done towards Haven City in Jak 2 and 3, not to mention the bashing towards any characters that simply don't deserve it (Keira and Krew keep coming to mind here). Plus there was all this fanservice for characters that "had" to be brought back from the dead (Vin and Errol's re-appearances in Jak 3 were just too cheesy for me), and the addition of Krew to the cast for Jak X (even though he was shown in the game as a mere pre-recorded hologram), coupled with its crappy story, made me want to leave it all behind. (Yeah, go figure, I wanted to see more of the Baron but nevermind.)

See, THIS is a lot worse than concerns on romance or whatever. But regardless, all this is just silly if you just end up realising that you're playing a videogame, presumably one that you'll find yourself to enjoy playing. Trust me, the Spyro franchise is actually a little timid when it comes to having its storyline tearing apart by rabids that dislike certain elements, in comparison to those that tend to get that bit more marketing to them.

Rexy, I love you. I felt the same way about the Jak fandom.

Wait...is that sarcasm or not? I can't tell. And what's this about Spyro killing Gaul? I'm so confused...

What I mean is how am I supossed to like the series when the hero kills someone?

What're you talking 'bout foo? Old Spyro killed, new Spyro has killed, furure Spyro will too. I pity the foo.

I'm talking about how spyro killed gaul.

That was part of the emotional punch to the game. Yes, Spyro killed Gaul, but did you note he was completely crushed by it? He didn't enjoy what he'd done.

Plus the fact that he knew he had turned into a monster. That's why he kept repeating he couldn't stop.

poor gaul

Agreed. I feel bad for the old monster. But I guess he wanted it that way; he did egg Spyro on to do it.

What I'm still confused on is why Spyro was so upset about killing Gaul when he's never been phased by killing anything else? He technically killed Skabb and saw Sparx kill one of his birds, and he's killed dozens of speaking, sentient apes. He also technically killed Cynder, but she came back, so I guess that was okay. I'm just confused about why Gaul was the tipping point. Stress, maybe? *scratches head*

That he did it while being controled of course.

At the part where Gaul was telling "dark Spyro" to finish him off, from what I remember that D Spyro closed his eyes right after Gaul said that, indicating that he was somehow resisting to kill him. After like 5 seconds, Gaul starts to laugh at the fact that Spyro just can't seem to kill a mortal enemy.

But if it was part of the dark master that had some control (not full) over Spyro, he would have not approved that and took control of Spyro during the time of fury. (as you can see in Spyro's eyes at that point, he was showing no emotions, no fear, no care for anyone who dies at that time)

That was just my opinion. Agree or disagree, I don't care

For all I know once a fury is started there is no way of stopping it.

But that would imply that Spyro doesn't care if he kills someone so long as he himself is in control of the action... That's creepy. o.O

I think he doesn't care about the apes though. But when he defeated Gaul I thinks it's the way he finished him off that hurt him inside.

P.S: Skabb got killed by being a stupid idiot and falling off the plank.

skabb wasn't killed when he fell. he had fallen into the water and it's likely he can swim. also spyro would never take another life it just isn't in his nature to do such a horrible thing.

If you saw that Skabb fell from a great height hitting the water would be similar to hitting the ground.

Also if spyro wasn't under that dark influence and were gaul to fall off the edge of the arena hanging on to the edge and slowly losing his grip chances are that spyro would help him up. by the way in an episode of silverwing shade learns to never underestimate an act of kindess even towards one's enemy.

If he was hanging, Spyro would just sit there and see what happens like he did with Skabb. Since Spyro knows that if Gaul lives the Dark Master will most certainly return.

spyro would save gaul. while they are enemys it's still the right thing to do.

Quote: Razz

Agreed. I feel bad for the old monster. But I guess he wanted it that way; he did egg Spyro on to do it.

What I'm still confused on is why Spyro was so upset about killing Gaul when he's never been phased by killing anything else? He technically killed Skabb and saw Sparx kill one of his birds, and he's killed dozens of speaking, sentient apes. He also technically killed Cynder, but she came back, so I guess that was okay. I'm just confused about why Gaul was the tipping point. Stress, maybe? *scratches head*

Maybe Skabb's not dead. *brick'd and stoned* Oh, forget it... x.x

Also did you not notice the silverwing thing? do not underestimate an act of kindness even torwards one's enemy. also I still think that skabb survived after all spyro fell from a similar height and he survived.

But Skabb had no turtle to save him from drowning.

Anyway if Spyro hated killing and he's really kind why didn't he help Skabb when he was gonna fall off the plank (he could of used dragon time to save him).

arathyne i have made a topic for you.

skabb can swim no doubt about it.

I just praying that he doesn't come in the third game with sniff.

Quote: arathyne

I just praying that he doesn't come in the third game with sniff.

it's Scratch. I get confuzzled with the two.

Quote: arathyne

it's Scratch. I get confuzzled with the two.

We all thought it was Scratch... but some user (I think Ross or Zerodius) told us that was an error. <.<;

scratch didn't die he was only knocked out.

We don't know yet if he died or not.

But I don't want that trio to return.

i hope sniff is sparx and spyros partner sniff and sparxs jokes are so funny.

What was this topic about again, something to do with cynder, possibly?

lolz^ It was something about Cynder's life, of how it's in darkness or something like that, or something about Cynder. Anyways, I LOVE your avvie, Twilight!

Quote: Twilight

What was this topic about again, something to do with cynder, possibly?

No topic can stay on topic unless it is located in Spam Central (ironic, no?).

That is ironic.

Hmmm, interesting thoughts on Skabb. I hadn't figured he'd survived that fall, but he might have. I mean, the high fall didn't kill Spyro, so why should it have killed Skabb? And the smart bird lived, at least, so he still has his ambulatory brain.

But I still smell a plot hole. I shall break things down by enemies.

Ape hordes and pirates: It's likely Spyro doesn't feel too bad about these guys because it's literally a matter of survival. He knows some of these guys are sentient (one of them talked with Ignitus before the old guy killed him). I have this feeling that Ignitus might have made some excuse (namely that the apes aren't real living things anymore, they are just entities composed of crystal and not really alive, therefor it's okay to kill them and/or since they're minions of the Dark Master they're just fodder and killing them is okay).

Arborik, Stone Centinel, Ice King, etc.: These are pretty much non-sentient entities. They don't speak and are really just inanimate objects brought to life by magic. Spyro doesn't seem to understand religion and the Atlawa didn't mind when he killed their god, so he probably doesn't loose much sleep over them.

Dark Cynder: He totally killed her but, again, this was a matter of survival thing. And, of course, she came back to life, so it was all good.

The Conductor: An ape who held a conversation with Spyro. I'm sure he would've felt bad if he'd had time to think about it, but being attacked by a freaking scary she-dragon will drive most things out of your mind. Also, survival. The Conductor was totally going to run him down with that train, and he'd already done mean things to the Manweersmalls.

Skabb and Sniff: This is where things start to get muddy. He just stood there and watched Skabb fall presumably to his death. He also watched his brother fatally injure Sniff. Why didn't either of these bother him? Stress? PTSD?

Gaul: So, after all of this, he cares that he killed Gaul. Why? He's killed hundreds of things already. Gaul is as much a servant of the Dark Master as Dark Cynder was and he had no remorse over killing her or any other servant of darkness. What was it that made him shut down over Gaul? He says "I'm sorry. I couldn't stop...", implying that he feels bad because he couldn't stop himself from killing the Ape King, but if he hadn't, Gaul would have killed him. It's a survival issue, but it's gotten to Spyro and I really want to know why. Is he just feeling remorse for the purely selfish, sociopathic reason that he wasn't in control of his actions at the time, even though the results would have been the same whether he was in control or not?

See, this is why I get so frustrated when games make everything black and white. I hate the idea that an entire race or species is supposed to be evil (Orcs, rats, apes, etc). It's fictional racism and stereotyping and it drives me nuts. It's also very unrealistic and promotes the notion that it's easy to tell wrong from right when, in reality, it isn't.

None of those apes were killed they were just defeated. after all spyro is too kind hearted to kill something and that time with arborick was an accident and he didn't kill the stone sentinel either. as for the conductor he probably jumped off the train before it exploded. and the parrot thing: that wasn't fatal it's called a bruise

How is groaning and falling into death throes, then vanishing into your base elements (gems) not dying? o.O And I'm pretty sure Sniff(?) was dead. That was one serious seizure. As for the Conductor...he jumped off the train...into the collapsing, burning, about-to-errupt volcano. He didn't have wings. I don't think he made it. o.o

I'm not saying Spyro is doing these things out of malice. He seems pretty innocent about most of it, really. Heck, it's possible he doesn't even know what's going on (maybe the elders told him a whole bunch of crazy stories to spare his innocence). But he seems too smart to not realize what's happening, and he was raised by small prey animals who wouldn't skimp on the harshness of life.

So far, no one has yet explained why the death of Gaul would matter after Spyro's killed so many other things knowingly and the only reason I can see (the one the games imply) is that there's something off about Spyro.

It's either that or this is one HUGE plot hole. I'm betting it's really the plot hole, but it'd still be nice to get a definitive answer.

I think he was hurt because he killed Gaul mercilessly and probably threw in an evil smile. Usually Spyro does show mercy to the enemy. Eg. Arborick Spyro didn't finish him off and Skabb Spyro didn't finish him off.
As for the elemental enemy's they technically didn't have any souls they where just created by the elements.

The reason why killing Gaul bothered Spyro?

The real reason, in my opinion, is not in the act itself. Spyro has clearly been developed to be able to act as a warrior and thus, kill in cold blood. But for him, it's either an act to insure his own survival or to uphold his ideals.

... so how is the situation with Gaul any different?

It's not Gaul but rather himself that scared him.

Upon being exposed to the Soul Beam, Spyro transformed into Dark Spyro, a perfect although younger recreation of the Dark Master. The same vile, unholy power coursed his veins and his anger was totally running out of control, causing him to go beserk.

It's not killing Gaul that traumatised him... but rather his own state.

He didn't just kill him like he did with the others. He totally destroyed him in a relatively long and horrible way... and not out of the will to survive or win against evil. No, he did it because that he was totally beserk and that he wanted to kill, to make him suffer, to taste blood.

This is why Spyro wished to end it all, to die in the destruction of the Well of Souls: because that he had become the same as his enemy ; a blood-thirsty monster. He realized who and what he truly was and what he could become if things went unchecked.

It was ultimately because of Cynder and Sparx that he didn't indirectly commit suicide.

Apes are living creatures they probably carry some gems with them when they go into battle oh what's the point you don't understand anyway.

I really don't care if characters kill, if your fighting evil you HAVE to kill to defeat it. It's a necessity, as evil is born into a being while wickedness is performing evil actions through conscious choice. A wicked creature can be saved however small the chance but an evil creature cannot be saved since evil is in their very spirit and their mind is constructed around performing it. An evil creature must be killed or imprisoned forever.
At least that's my impression of it anyway.

Yes! Someone actually read what I wrote! And your response makes a lot of sense, Zerodius. Thank you. Spyro isn't entirely innocent, but, like any good patriot, he believes he is doing the right thing. When he was overtaken by the DM, he was not himself and he killed in a slow, violent way that he would not have done if he'd had a choice. Did I interpret that right?

Didn't bother me at all, I thought he deserved it.

It didn't bother me at first either cause, I mean, c'mon, Gaul was the main bad guy. He's done all sorts of nasty things in his life. But when I started to think about it, I caught a few things not adding up and then it did start to bother me.

Krome needs more people with AD/HD on their team to prevent these sorts of errors.

I loved this series so much but now that I know the hero is a killer I just don't know what to think. I'm angry disgusted and heartbroken all at the same time.

That is fairly typical, if one can stop evil and not kill, then they are not a hero, they are a cartoon.

As I said it is more how the darkness was effecting him than what he had done. (Note: it is more likely that he was upset about that he had been about to attack Sparx and Cyder than what had happend to Gaul).

Agreed Gwenio, in all things.