darkSpyro

err... it took you a couple of games to figure that out?

Quote: Unreallystic

With out digging too far into the 'old figures still work' rabbit hole.

First - what are we really talking about...

Feats of strength? That was JUST MASHING 'X'. that doesn't qualify as 'content'.
Swap Zones? 'Mostly' (not all) annoying areas that you never wanted to replay once you aced it.

So I can't sit here and honestly say "Oh I miss those, I wish they were still here to make me pull my 'figure X' out", because I don't miss them.

Truth be told, the gimmicks have never altered the game in a way that made me 'want' them. It's simply been a matter of "Hey Giants have more health and seem to be more effective than the cores", "Hey the SF characters have some real nasty combinations and kill/move faster than the other characters", and "Trap Masters hit harder and have more splash damage".

So in the current 'format' of the series, lets not get delusional with where the fun is and what we do when playing the game. I've got just a large collection as anyone else, at least one of all characters, with a bunch of 'casual' variants and chase variants. So I want to play as other characters as well, I'm not blinded by that.

And frnakly, this game did a much better job than SF of making me feel 'OK' doing that. Does Boomer feel behind? As a S1 - yes he does, he needs a Wow Pow. But I can put EyeBrawl on and feel content with how fast I chew through bad guys.

So if you want more content, then just flat out say you want more content, but as someone who was nervous about using old characters and the such, this game has actually done a good job on that front. would I love a more 'organic' approach where different 'entries/gimmicks' in the game affected things more - yes I would. If I did a new game from the ground up, I'd aim it more towards the Spyro direction of an open world, with Giants having increased size due to Trap Masters, and this letting them have large AoE and PBAoE style attacks, while smaller characters might platform better, Swaps would have adjusted damage/health ratio in favor of health, and Trap Masters would net you more money and do more damage than anyone else (and still be able to use the trap mechanic while others can't).

But that would lose the 'Skylander' feel and require a bit more from the intended age-group. *shrug*
- Unreall

So much this.

Sure, Feats of Strenght and SWAP Zones were fun addictions, but I have NEVER bought a character because of them.

I personally simply want to try out all the Skylanders created, and the "lack of content" for specific categories of characters isn't going to stop me from doing that.

Trap Team managed to bring back the old Skylanders feeling, both in terms of characters (old and new) and gameplay, whether you like it or not.

Lots of great suggestions here.

My main gripe is the no new level cap increase. Just feels a sucky decision that was made. Who knows... maybe VV will increase it to 30 next time to make up for it, lol.

Quote: temperedreason

Lots of great suggestions here.

My main gripe is the no new level cap increase. Just feels a sucky decision that was made. Who knows... maybe VV will increase it to 30 next time to make up for it, lol.

I honestly hope so.

While I think TfB might have a point, when saying that the more your Skylander levels up, the more unbalanced he will be, I also think it shouldn't be too difficult to find a way to avoid that.

If they *hopefully* drop the Wii version next year, one thing that they really need to address is NPC dialogue. I think it'd be neat if the characters can recognize what character you're playing as. That was a really neat feature in the one level in Giants, but I would hope by now they could figure out a way to do it without having too much trouble.

It'd be neat, but with, what, 200 or so playable characters, you'd have to have all of the VAs read each of the names, likely in different emotions. I remember one of the developers somewhere complaining about the amount of work it takes to have dialogue for male/female characters. I can't imagine what it would take for all of the Skylanders...

I agree that the level should be increased.
But all of you missed something. Small, but it played heavily in the past games.
The Skylanders' personal quests, such as Trigger Happy acquiring 50K in gold, or Hot Dog consuming 10 hot dogs or Camo consuming 10 watermelons. Not a necessity, but quite fun any way.

Quote: UncleBob

It'd be neat, but with, what, 200 or so playable characters, you'd have to have all of the VAs read each of the names, likely in different emotions. I remember one of the developers somewhere complaining about the amount of work it takes to have dialogue for male/female characters. I can't imagine what it would take for all of the Skylanders...

Speaking of that, I noticed the dialogue in the sewer arena always refers to skylanders as "they."

Quote: Insane01

I agree that the level should be increased.
But all of you missed something. Small, but it played heavily in the past games.
The Skylanders' personal quests, such as Trigger Happy acquiring 50K in gold, or Hot Dog consuming 10 hot dogs or Camo consuming 10 watermelons. Not a necessity, but quite fun any way.

Everything can change their minds with some money

One thing that i really liked about SF was they put in a way to still make your giants somewhat useful. There was a crate in each chapter that only a giant could open. It did not affect the story line, you didn't miss out on anything but a little coin if you did not have a giant but it was just nice to have something just for them. They could do the same with swap zones in the future games, they need not be part of the main story line just another option for someone who wants to do it. I personally would not do them as i did not like the swap zone but i'm not the only player out there. The biggest thing they need in any game to make it popular with as many fans as possible is options. Give people options on how they want to play, with what and with who, it dose not have to be set in stone that you can only do the game one way with these characters. Anyway just my opinion

^ I agree. I wasn't' much, but at least VV tried.

Quote: UncleBob

err... it took you a couple of games to figure that out?

I knew about the toys on SSA and SG, but I had false hope for two games more like GM is ranting about now that they really care about our experience or depth of the game. This was my official white flag "I give up".

So, at this point last year I'd chime in on all of these improvements like GM is talking about. Now, given the execution, it's a waste of my time. In my opinion, the franchise is literally going 180 degrees away from what I liked and want. I'm literally speechless.

Toy customization is literally 1. XP and 2. upgrades and 3. hats. Removed quests, Removed heroics. I loved PvP. I loved Bonus Missions. I wanted some online capability -- even if it was the card game. Nope--rip it all out. And worse yet--don't replace it with anything. Just lots of villains and traps.

Quote: UncleBob

It'd be neat, but with, what, 200 or so playable characters, you'd have to have all of the VAs read each of the names, likely in different emotions. I remember one of the developers somewhere complaining about the amount of work it takes to have dialogue for male/female characters. I can't imagine what it would take for all of the Skylanders...

My sympathy would be higher if I didn't spend 10-15 bucks on each figure. Conceptually speaking 4-6 figures is equivalent to buying a brand new video game. With that kind of money - they can do the work.

I don't EVER want to hear Activision/TfB/VV complain about money or resources, assuming the starter pack is a wash and non-profit *doubt it*, then they are still making money hand over fist with the figures and adventure packs.
- Unreall

Quote: temperedreason

Lots of great suggestions here.

My main gripe is the no new level cap increase. Just feels a sucky decision that was made. Who knows... maybe VV will increase it to 30 next time to make up for it, lol.

No, Naw, Nope.

Where we are now is a sweet spot. You don't get to it over night, but it doesn't take forever. The idea of how long it would take to get to level 30 is a turn off as is the idea of content designed for level 30. Unless I missed something in this entry, typically the levels only really affect your health and not your damage, I'm not trying to have content where some of my unleveled characters are dying to chompy bites.
- Unreall

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

While I love the game and consider it to be the best yet, I do have problems with it. Many Ghost Roaster pointed out.

No Score or Time attack mode

No Feats of Strength or Swap Zones.

Shorter levels: This one hurts me the most. I LOVED Swap Forces long levels, feels like a real adventure. TT are still great ones though.

Also this game is repetitive, I mean REPETITIVE. They use nearly all the same mechanics from the last two TfB games and you know the crane games in Rainfish Riviera? They used that in the Madagascar game! Skystones, Lock puzzle, Sky stones, lock puzzle, SKY STONES, SKY STONES AAAGAGAHGAH SSSKKYYY STTOOONNESS!!!! I H-----I HATE Sky Stones. I know you can get "cheats" for both but still come on TfB have something new. I know Swap Force used level gimmicks like rail riding in Motleyville and the Musical Bonce pads in Iron Jaw Gulch, but they were quick and easy.

Not a fan of the Trap Masters are the only ones to unlock elemental gates thing either. What's the point of The Crystals then? Now THAT was stupid. And I don't just mean stupid design but really, it's absolutely moronic. I'm suspecting it was Acti's decision, not TfB's.

I like the Minis, but they're unnecessary. I hope we don't get anymore the next game (Though we likely will.).

And don't get me started on Meditations on Boom. I'm starting to get annoyed with Flynn.


So, over all, I want the game Ghost Roaster wants. Here's what I'd like see.

Score Mode and Time Attack

Bonus Missions and boost stats of the Skylander that completed it said mission.

Return of PVP.

Ways to make your Skylanders faster.

Reposes of Ghosty, Dino-Rang, Boomer, Voodood and Sunburn.

Levels with the length of Swap Force and the amount similar to SSA and TT.

Giants and Swapper Zones (Not necessary, but appreciated)

Story Scrolls with good lore.

New Trappable Villains and a new main villain (With NO Kaos as the "surprise" villain)

A bigger story with some dark undertones.

Basically, exactly this. Activision and TFB, READ THIS!!!

Nope naw no to longer levels. More levels, sure, but the long levels in SF made it boring...I wasn't the only one complaining about the long levels. some of it was magnified by them having too man tinykitty gates, but the levels were simply too long.

I think heroics should come back in some form, I'd much rather them have a bunch of 'mini' missions that boost character stats, than raise the level cap.

PvP always looked like a joke to me so it can kick rocks.

Swap zones can kick rocks, for me they were simply a waste of time.

I've NEVER cared about the scrolls #KickRocks

Score Mode I've never cared about...unless its going to give me something #RocksGetKicked

Time Attack? Wit hthe long as heck level from SF it was simply not fun compared to the previous titles. In this one, I think it would have been nice for time to be a star requirement again.

If Koopa can be the bad guy for Mario 30+ years later...then Kaos can remain the bad guy, heck, in this game, is he really the bad guy? He maybe the last villain (I havne't gotten that far), but the story revovled around the Doom Raiders as the bad guys., just like Super Mario 3 and super Mario World were really focused around Bowser/Koopa's kids.

I feel like the lust for more content in general is 'fair', but that's almost always going to be the case in a game with so many future compatible figures. The main story is sufficient in length, but they need something akin to Disney Infinty's Toy Box mode - not a copy of it - but essentially something that helps to perpetuate content additions or extended playing. Score & Time attack are 'cop outs'. Kaos Mode is a step in the right direction. If they had just gotten heroics on there along with Kaos Mode, I think it would have been pretty spot on.
- Unreall

Quote: Unreallystic

Quote: temperedreason

Lots of great suggestions here.

My main gripe is the no new level cap increase. Just feels a sucky decision that was made. Who knows... maybe VV will increase it to 30 next time to make up for it, lol.

No, Naw, Nope.

Where we are now is a sweet spot. You don't get to it over night, but it doesn't take forever. The idea of how long it would take to get to level 30 is a turn off as is the idea of content designed for level 30. Unless I missed something in this entry, typically the levels only really affect your health and not your damage, I'm not trying to have content where some of my unleveled characters are dying to chompy bites.
- Unreall

Please, don't take it as a critique, Unreall, (even if it DOES sounds like a critique), at least not a personal one, but in my opinion that isn't absolutely the right way to think about the whole experience thing.
You don't have to see it as a chore.

Skylanders is after all a dungeon-crawler.
Griding for money and xp is a key aspect of it.

I would personally like a lot an increased level cap, for Skylanders 5, because it would give me a reason to play again all my 100+ characters (aside from the fun of doing so, of course).

And while I understand and share your opinions about the "overpowered level 30 Skylanders", I think the devs could easily find a way to solve that problem.

But, YES. Levels should affect more than just the health.

Quote: Drek95

Quote: Unreallystic

Quote: temperedreason

Lots of great suggestions here.

My main gripe is the no new level cap increase. Just feels a sucky decision that was made. Who knows... maybe VV will increase it to 30 next time to make up for it, lol.

No, Naw, Nope.

Where we are now is a sweet spot. You don't get to it over night, but it doesn't take forever. The idea of how long it would take to get to level 30 is a turn off as is the idea of content designed for level 30. Unless I missed something in this entry, typically the levels only really affect your health and not your damage, I'm not trying to have content where some of my unleveled characters are dying to chompy bites.
- Unreall

Please, don't take it as a critique, Unreall, (even if it DOES sounds like a critique), at least not a personal one, but in my opinion that isn't absolutely the right way to think about the whole experience thing.
You don't have to see it as a chore.

Skylanders is after all a dungeon-crawler.
Griding for money and xp is a key aspect of it.

I would personally like a lot an increased level cap, for Skylanders 5, because it would give me a reason to play again all my 100+ characters (aside from the fun of doing so, of course).

And while I understand and share your opinions about the "overpowered level 30 Skylanders", I think the devs could easily find a way to solve that problem.

But, YES. Levels should affect more than just the health.

Naw- its no offense. But with all the games I've played over time, from the RPGs on SNES to MMOs like City of Heroes (MDK for life!) to Diablo 3, there are usually two aspects of leveling.

There is improving your base stats via out right increasing levels, usually your hit points and attack points, sometimes this also includes whatever the game calls its version of 'mana/resources' as well. Then there is the more specific type that centers around 'leveling up your powers' or learning new abilities or changing gear only supported by the higher levels that may impact your base stats further.

the problem is this game throws those ideas to the side in some capacity. Leveling only really affects health, it doens't change your playstyle as characters don't become tanks or anything. Then the 'learned' or 'improved' powers aren't tied to your level at ALL. There is no 'get to level 15' to unlock your Wow-pow, you could do the sky-diamond trick in SF and have a glass cannon level 1 character with ALL their powers. That character will NEVER evolve again, never hit harder, only survivability increases. The way this game plays however, if you are a 'decent' gamer, it is rare you die. And if you die, so what, most likely you have other characters that you can tag in. Now you have extra VILLAINS you can tag in on TOP of your characters, who have infinite health essentially - so how important is that sustainability?

Not very. If it's not super important, then I ask how important is actually leveling up? It's not. You level up in this game simply because 'you want to'. (I'm not saying naything negative about it, just that its a want more than a need). My strongest character - in my eyes at least is Lob-Star. It wasn't until last night that I realized he was only level 7. My Headrush is like 14 and can't SNIFF Lob-Star, because frankly no one ever hits him. Also at lvl 7 he has all unlocks. I didn't cheat or scheme to get there...I did Kaos mode and made enough money to max out his powers. No items or farming (I just really like Kaos mode heh).

So that is why I don't see the benefit of raising the level cap further. You level at a good pace 'now' (SF felt so slow to level), leveling up higher doesn't really change the game and is just a carrot on a string in front of you - that you put there with your own arms.

Now, if they somehow tied other benefits to levels - I'm right there with you. Something as simple as a damage boost with each level, then I'm right there *smacks back of hand into palm or emphasis*. But there is no cake for getting to 20. If my lvl 7 (now 11) Lob-Star fought a lvl 20 Jawbreaker, I'd most likely win, not because Lob-Star is broken, but because the only difference is health, I still hit you just as hard.
- Unreall

Quote: Unreallystic

My sympathy would be higher if I didn't spend 10-15 bucks on each figure. Conceptually speaking 4-6 figures is equivalent to buying a brand new video game. With that kind of money - they can do the work.

You're not just talking about "doing the work" though. Outside of the cost (VAs can be pretty pricey), there's the time involved in recording ("Say each Skylanders' name five times in five different emotions") and the amount of data requred by the game to not only store 5 different versions of 200 different names in high quality audio, but the programming requred to make sure that the game pulls the right soundfile based on the character and the situation. Even then, it'll still probably have a somewhat unnatural feel to it...

I *hate* that the NPCs all say "Skylander" instead of your actual name... it's cold and impersonal in a world where everyone is suposed to be huge Skylander fans. But I fully understand the technical reasons behind it.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: Unreallystic

My sympathy would be higher if I didn't spend 10-15 bucks on each figure. Conceptually speaking 4-6 figures is equivalent to buying a brand new video game. With that kind of money - they can do the work.

You're not just talking about "doing the work" though. Outside of the cost (VAs can be pretty pricey), there's the time involved in recording ("Say each Skylanders' name five times in five different emotions") and the amount of data requred by the game to not only store 5 different versions of 200 different names in high quality audio, but the programming requred to make sure that the game pulls the right soundfile based on the character and the situation. Even then, it'll still probably have a somewhat unnatural feel to it...

I *hate* that the NPCs all say "Skylander" instead of your actual name... it's cold and impersonal in a world where everyone is suposed to be huge Skylander fans. But I fully understand the technical reasons behind it.

A a sound engineer part time, a programmer previously, and a project manager now - malarky.

Storage is none issue with the current disc formats, and audio can be compressed - especially just vocals - losslessly - and in batch/automated. VAs can be pricey - reuse as much as possible from the previous effort, its not like the Landers 'talk', in fact them not reusing EVERYTHING from the previous entries in the game would be flat out idiotic. The only VAs they need to hire are the main NPCs...and short of I think it's Warburton, are there any VAs that couldn't be replaced with some one cheaper?

Then there is the overall bottom line. It may take 'X' number of games, but companies are spending 10s of millions+ to make games these days and are still turning a profit...off 'still' $60 games. If they are turning a profit with a $60 game, then I'm sure, even if they redid all the 3D models, redid all the VA for all the previous characters, ran them through the most expensive filters known to Pro-Tools or even hardware based filters recorded to reels 'for warmth *music snobbish voice*', they would still turn an enormous profit. They made $500 million dollars PROFIT in one year. How? By selling us on disc content with purchasable 'unlocks'. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that they make MORE than enough money to continue the effort.
- Unreall

Enjoyed reading many of your comments. I believe Swap Force is by far the best Skylanders game, thanks in great part to VV, a great developer. The game looks terribly slow in Youtube videos and I had real doubts. Have not picked the game up yet, but my kids want it, so I am holding out for 40-50% off deals or Target B2G1. Dark edition characters look great, hate to hear about all of the dropped features, short levels and the fact old characters are relatively pointless. I think this all goes back to TfB, not a big name developer.

Quote: Unreallystic

A a sound engineer part time, a programmer previously, and a project manager now - malarky.

Storage is none issue with the current disc formats, and audio can be compressed - especially just vocals - losslessly - and in batch/automated. VAs can be pricey - reuse as much as possible from the previous effort, its not like the Landers 'talk', in fact them not reusing EVERYTHING from the previous entries in the game would be flat out idiotic. The only VAs they need to hire are the main NPCs...and short of I think it's Warburton, are there any VAs that couldn't be replaced with some one cheaper?

Then there is the overall bottom line. It may take 'X' number of games, but companies are spending 10s of millions+ to make games these days and are still turning a profit...off 'still' $60 games. If they are turning a profit with a $60 game, then I'm sure, even if they redid all the 3D models, redid all the VA for all the previous characters, ran them through the most expensive filters known to Pro-Tools or even hardware based filters recorded to reels 'for warmth *music snobbish voice*', they would still turn an enormous profit. They made $500 million dollars PROFIT in one year. How? By selling us on disc content with purchasable 'unlocks'. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that they make MORE than enough money to continue the effort.
- Unreall

So, a few points: Storage - remember, they're still making this game for the Wii, which is limited to just under 5GB (about 8.5 if you use a double layer disc, but since Wii systems have trouble with the double layer discs as they age, I'm guessing they're going to try to avoid those costs).

As for reusing sound clips from previous games... ugh. As a sound engine, I assume that you know that people's voices change over time. Even from day-to-day - but can have pretty decent swings over the course of a year or two. It'd be bad enough to have the clips read "Hurry >insert Skylander name here<! Orcs are attacking!" - but to use two year old sound clips for the insert? Ugh.

VAs - I know they've had a couple of familiar voices, but, aside from Patrick Warburton (man, I wonder how much they're paying him), they've also got Richard Horvitz (Voice of Kaos). I can't imagine he's cheap either.

Aside from the technical issues, you also have the flat out logistics of it. This is the fourth game in the series. Generic sentences like "Hurry Skylander! Orcs are attacking!" obviously haven't done much to hurt sales - so why invest the money and time into fixing it?

I'd much rather they spend that time and money fixing the horrible glitches or developing more content. And I *hate* the generic name calling.