darkSpyro

How good is sprocket? I hear everyone talking about how low her health is , and. She would be better with more of it. Is this true?

^ Sprocket's HP is much less problematic for her than it would be for, say, Trigger Happy, because of her defense-oriented playstyle. It's way easier for Sprocket to defend that HP than it is for the vast majority of other characters, so if anything, it's sort of a check to stop her from becoming TOO powerful and not a serious vulnerability for the character. 600~ isn't a ton, but keep in mind, on Sprocket, you're playing a character whose entire strategy is predicated on letting other objects (turrets and mines) do the fighting for you. Ideally, you don't skirmish much on Sprocket, so you won't be taking huge damage.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Then why aren't you answering it, or giving a reasonable explanation on why you don't want to answer it?

Also, if this question isn't also too unreasonable, why are you leaving?

He's buttmad that you told him you trust the more veteran and tested opinions over his out of the blue contrasting opinion.

Quote: Soopa Koopa

Quote: Bean Sprout

Then why aren't you answering it, or giving a reasonable explanation on why you don't want to answer it?

Also, if this question isn't also too unreasonable, why are you leaving?

He's buttmad that you told him you trust the more veteran and tested opinions over his out of the blue contrasting opinion.

But I wasn't the one who told him that. But anyway, lets get back on topic.

What was the reasoning for Drill Sergeant being S now?

I'm not disagreeing or anything but seems like the Wow Pow made a huge difference considering he wasn't that great in SA. Might have to go try him out later on.

Yes, the Wow Pow makes a huge difference.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think every fourth laser shot with the auto-blaster does 10 damage. Considering the speed of that thing, that makes a huge impact.
Also, the auto blaster is stickier and it auto-aims more efficiently now, allowing DS to just drill dash around, damaging the opponent easily. He can also shoot his rockets or drill for a little extra damage.

Put RR Bouncer in A-tier. His speed helps him easily get far away so he can spam rockets and cause a buttlooad of damage. Also, he has a very large pool of health, so even if he gets caught up to, he can take it.

^ This.

Quote: noco99

Put RR Bouncer in A-tier. His speed helps him easily get far away so he can spam rockets and cause a buttlooad of damage. Also, he has a very large pool of health, so even if he gets caught up to, he can take it.

I don't have Bouncer, but do the rockets auto-aim? Because if they don't, that path looks very difficult to use efficiently.

^ They can, if you just Press B instead of Holding B, but if you Hold B, he can fire off unlimited rockets.

^It's kinda like Lightning Rods Grand Lighning attack, except you can lock on very quickly.

It'd be better if it WEREN'T like Grand Lightning.

Auto-target might make them worth the danger but relying on a move that not only need to be charged up AND aimed but has a delay before it hits the ground is risky.

I think you'll be wanting to focus on the Fingerguns and Mines with Bouncer with his I-Beams coming into play when you've got them in range.

Lightning rod is very weak lightning lord. Not good dmg, hard to control, he stays still. He is an inferior ignitor. I suggest putting him in the lower D group or low E.

He is already in D.

The thing is, he's not built for close range. While his fingerguns may be long range, they don't do sufficient enough damage to justify choosing an entire path for his 2 weakest attacks. Even with the path, the fingerguns don't do enough damage and the I-beams don't tick fast enough.

Oops. Sorry. Wham shell is really upper A. His mace combos deal tons of dmg, and tue AAX attack(xbox) ticks really fast. He can beat tree rex lumbering laser easily. The only thing he lacks is speed. Je has decent health and nice armor, which helps him too. He is easily better than cynder, and fright rider gets wiped out, too.

Quote: Soopa Koopa

Quote: Bean Sprout

Then why aren't you answering it, or giving a reasonable explanation on why you don't want to answer it?

Also, if this question isn't also too unreasonable, why are you leaving?

He's buttmad that you told him you trust the more veteran and tested opinions over his out of the blue contrasting opinion.

There was one guy who DID think super shards flashwing should be D tier if you look back. And no calling his opinions "out of the blue does not make you look cool". I thought ALL opinions were welcome here.

Quote: Soopa Koopa

What was the reasoning for Drill Sergeant being S now?

I'm not disagreeing or anything but seems like the Wow Pow made a huge difference considering he wasn't that great in SA. Might have to go try him out later on.

It's because his Auto-Blaster and Future Lasers lock on no matter which direction he's facing. This is S-rank material for two reasons.

Auto-Blaster rapid fires 2 damage, every laser does 10. Seems low, but adds up quickly, and keep in mind, it can be fired just as accurately while you are running away. Considering that the character travels VERY quickly, you can score unlimited cheap wins against nearly all characters by running away and never engaging them directly.

All this auto-target stuff is great at interrupting characters who have to charge their attacks. Since the first thing I would do against a normal keep-away character is blast him with things like Trigger Happy's Golden Yamato Blast, it's good for Drill Sergeant that attacks like this never have to be an issue.

Basically, he just has a really cheap and highly exploitable playstyle, and he can defend that playstyle. Very few characters are fast or strong enough to stop him from just charging around the field and out of the way, letting the Auto Blaster do most of the work, and firing the occasional drill rockets when he knows you're so far away that there's no risk in doing so.

Quote: Mrmorrises

There was one guy who DID think super shards flashwing should be D tier if you look back. And no calling his opinions "out of the blue does not make you look cool". I thought ALL opinions were welcome here.

Not talking about Flashwing.

He was arguing for Brawler being the better path and was getting mad because EgoNaut refused to take his opinion as fact when he was the only one arguing for it whereas people like Tashiji and Earth-Dragon, who have been known to but a lot of effort into these topics disagree with and have evidence against it being the case.

EgoNaut made it clear that he took the opinions into consideration but until other people could confirm it that he couldn't just take this one contradictory opinion that flew in the face of all the established research.

LightSpyro continued to have an attitude about it and made it clear he doesn't care about the opinions of everyone else and that he only cares about his own findings. He continued to prove his immaturity by arguing with and being downright rude to Bean Sprout for no apparent reason other than Bean Sprout doesn't agree with him.

Quote: Tashiji

Quote: Soopa Koopa

What was the reasoning for Drill Sergeant being S now?

I'm not disagreeing or anything but seems like the Wow Pow made a huge difference considering he wasn't that great in SA. Might have to go try him out later on.

It's because his Auto-Blaster and Future Lasers lock on no matter which direction he's facing. This is S-rank material for two reasons.

Auto-Blaster rapid fires 2 damage, every laser does 10. Seems low, but adds up quickly, and keep in mind, it can be fired just as accurately while you are running away. Considering that the character travels VERY quickly, you can score unlimited cheap wins against nearly all characters by running away and never engaging them directly.

All this auto-target stuff is great at interrupting characters who have to charge their attacks. Since the first thing I would do against a normal keep-away character is blast him with things like Trigger Happy's Golden Yamato Blast, it's good for Drill Sergeant that attacks like this never have to be an issue.

Basically, he just has a really cheap and highly exploitable playstyle, and he can defend that playstyle. Very few characters are fast or strong enough to stop him from just charging around the field and out of the way, letting the Auto Blaster do most of the work, and firing the occasional drill rockets when he knows you're so far away that there's no risk in doing so.

Well this sounds really intriguing. Grr this means I'm actually going to have to play as him and try him out. Can't stand the little bugger.

Which path is better for camo in pvp and why?

Vine Virtuoso, I think. From what I can figure out, though I'm not 100% sure on it, Melon Master's Melon Fountain- and Camo's Melon Fountain altogether- can now be popped by just any attack, a huge nerf if it is correct. Melon Master also lacks a good ranged attack, as the Vines are quite weak down that path. In general, both paths were almost equal in the first game and it really came down to wether you wanted a powerful mid range defense tactic or very quick and useful ranged trap, but due to Melon Fountain's seeming drop Vine Virtuoso now seems like an obviously superior pick.
Tashiji, I know you test Skylanders a lot so can you help me out over the Melon Fountain? Whenever I use it in Story it usually gets popped by enemies, so...

What about for spurious? Most people including me kind of think sheep burner sucks in pvp but I just want to know that if we had to bring one of them up a tier who would it be and why?

Sheep Burner by a long shot. I never understood the love for Blitz. The only worthwhile reason to pick that path is the combination of Stun and Ibex, but it seems in Giants the Stun has been cancelled or at least nerfed. Sheep Burner was always just an average projectile character, but at least using his Daybringer can actually hit enemies far away(it's honestly not as bad as it's made out to be when combined with the standard shots correctly).

Blitz WAS the better option, before tree Rex and fright rider entered the field and dominated the charge/jousting technique. The fact blitz spyro still stuns, I might still go with him. Kids have a massive tendency to overlook utility and just concentrate on damage numbers. You still get the triple fireballs on blitz as well, giving great coverage as you pivot around after the charge and flail off a couple shots.

Spyro is rough at either rate. If you do go Blitz, DON'T take his soul gem power. It just knocks out your ability to charge from flight. You'll want to do most of your maneuvering while flying for the extra defense.

^Well said.

I've noticed for camo's melon master, the melons don't roll for a bit like they do in SA, so that could affect melon master's position

I reckon Bouncer's (Robot Rocketeer) should be in B because you have to manually aim the rockets and the aiming guide is very slow, and you can't shoot far, but they do 45 damage each when fully upgraded. Also with the Rockets on Demand upgrade you can shoot unlimited rockets, but only one rocket comes out every second. The I-Beam does 20 damage, with very short range and takes a second to adjust. The Fingerguns do under 10 damage each, but there's a lot of them. The only upgrade I haven't got yet is the Soul Gem Fists of Destruction, I will update you guys when I get it. The only thing keeping Bouncer in B is because of his health. Otherwise if he had an average normal Skylanders health he would probably be in C or D.

^ Agreed actually. Bouncer is the only Giant who could qualify as being a little weak, and I haven't seen any indication that the A-tier doesn't destroy him either.

As for Melon Master, I will definitely test this the next time I can sit down and play. Until the weekend gets here, there's scarcely time for more than work right now, but this really does sound like something that could reduce Melon Master's tier standing in a large-scale way. If anyone else tests first, please let us know the results.

Keep in mind, B is still good, which Bouncer is still good, he just doesn't have the maneuverability needed to pull off his move against the solid landers. B tier is an excellent spot for the rocket path. Eye Beam Supreme may be there, but could squeak into A with a better primary weapon.

I didn't even think Camo (on either path, but the Vine Virtuoso in particular) was as great as folks wanted to claim last go round. I feel his newness got him into A more then his effectiveness. Is he good? Of course. Is he great? That has been debatable. Just look at most of the beginning entries for all the newer landers in this thread. Everyone was supposedly B or better, and then someone had to come in later and say "Nah. That guy is D".

Be careful just putting freshly painted figures in the top three categories. It just causes more of a headache later.

The reason that freshly painted figures are so readily placed in the upper tiers is due to the unknown capacities of each character. Of course they seem stronger than the older ones at first because it's hard to counter a strategy you've never seen before, so the new character always has that advantage. Everyone knows what Bash brings to the table for example, but even a weaker-end Giant like Bouncer had valid reasons for seeming good at first. It's easier to be caught by his relatively simplistic strategy when you don't know it's relatively simplistic.

I do feel, though, that we've been diligent with where we place whom, for the most part, with Giants to this point. Most new guys don't have placements, and the advantages that gave certain characters that S-rank edge were all evident fairly quickly.

Well sure. And there has been some adjustments down for a few of them, which is to be expected. I agree Bouncer is B and on both paths at that, but I am more referring to watch it when when these last few come out. Unless Ninjini is a dud, she is destined to be overrated in the same way Camo is. There is that unappreciated factor that can come in as well with Wham-Shell for instance. Many didn't like him because of his pulse forward striking style, but most have come around.

Egonaut may want to clarify the tiers at the beginning to clear up some confusion. Too many see "good" by B and want to start there as opposed to defaulting to C. Maybe change C from describing them as average and change it to "competitive". That alone might prevent the list from getting so top heavy.

Put LL Tree Rex on A tier or above. the spammed laser can rival, if not surpass, Drobot. And the held laser does extreme damage.

Not quite. B tier definently. It is powerful but the last two upgrades are pretty much useless. Skewer dosent really make a difference and plant pods is useless. And the 100 damage attack can be destroyed by an attack before charging.But it is still powerful, though the s1 hex could easily kill him woth her skulls and orbs. I went for laser and it is good but not enought to make it into a or s tier. That is my opinion.

Also remember that there is always a degree of flexibility in this tier list, and the characters are expected to move around all over the place as more research and evaluation comes through.
As long as the placement of a certain character is correct at the time it was placed there, for the ammount of information that was on the table at that time, then the Tier list is doing its job.

• Bouncer / Robot Rocketeer placed in B Tier.
  
• Bouncer / I-Beam Supreme placed in B Tier, for now.
  
• Also changed how some of the tiers are labeled, based on a suggestion by Earth-Dragon.
  

Right, when I get Bouncer I will do research on his I-Beam Supreme path. Might though as robot rocketeer sounds interesting.

Actually Melon master doesnt need to go down. Vine virtuoso sucks at pvp, melon master is much better the melons do like 60 damage and the vines are really weak either path. Melon master is much much much better then vine virtuoso at pvp, hands down.

^ However, it seems the Melon Fountain physics have changed.
Quote: Nibelilt

Vine Virtuoso, I think. From what I can figure out, though I'm not 100% sure on it, Melon Master's Melon Fountain- and Camo's Melon Fountain altogether- can now be popped by just any attack, a huge nerf if it is correct. Melon Master also lacks a good ranged attack, as the Vines are quite weak down that path. In general, both paths were almost equal in the first game and it really came down to wether you wanted a powerful mid range defense tactic or very quick and useful ranged trap, but due to Melon Fountain's seeming drop Vine Virtuoso now seems like an obviously superior pick.
Tashiji, I know you test Skylanders a lot so can you help me out over the Melon Fountain? Whenever I use it in Story it usually gets popped by enemies, so...

I don't have a Vine Camo, but our games have been going dismally for Melon Boy. With Drobot in there in A now, it's a rough fight, both the Waters are anything but gimme matches for him, while the undead residents show no mercy with various tools to destroy the melon fountain.

I'm convinced. I vote to move Melon Master to B. I'd really be shocked if what I remember before resetting Camo if he would fair better with Vine seeing how there are no heavy hitting moves in a landscape starting to be flooded with Hit Point Sinks.

No... I wouldn't say either version of Camo is A now. He's just outdone by a lot of the damage points in there. On the other hand, his strategy or ranged huntdown is as effective as it was before. And it can't just be me but it seems his Vines home in BETTER this game. I think it's time to test Camo in general this game. Then perhaps iron out B and C a little more.

yeah. camo is way overrated. my cousin bet that camo would beat zook, but zook won the first 2 easy.i got 50 cents from that.

I'll move Melon Master down to B Tier for now, though it's sounding like he's one of those characters who could get moved as low as C once the tiers become more refined. I'd quite like to see Vine Virtuoso investigated, too.

• Camo / Melon Master moved to B Tier.
  

Vine virtuoso id D tier cuz its weak and it loses to the entire c tier, and some E tier like typhoon titan and clobber troll, and smash n bash.

Flashwing Super Shards is gonna be a tough one to nail done because she is all about style. A couple players have been borderline unstoppable, while others are horrid with her. Her ability to jet away, catch people in a crossfire and heal herself can sometimes be a complex task of figuring out where you can position yourself to gain an advantage against your opponent and it changes per arena and per opponent. I've seen matches where she was nearly killed in the first 15 seconds, yet finished the fight with full life and a victory. You HAVE to bring your A game every match, but you are awesome if you can.

Now, I've already seen people post negatives, and I can see why. She is another one that has an extremely high ceiling, but isn't for everyone. Similar to the success a decent portion some had with Gill Grunt being able to blanket out damage with the fish and spray while jetting around (which you can't do anymore with the hose cutting out when you fire fish and fish not firing as fast) and others thought he was just mediocre. According to Toys for Bob, the last list was wrong about Grunt and his ceiling got bashed, but it wasn't do to a broken, spammable attack, it was due to his ceiling.

So we have a couple options. We can put her at her ceiling in the A tier, even though many will never be able to compete up there, or we can pop her to C where some will still claim she's too high, but others will gripe because they can dominate. I don't really see any difference in my nieces and nephews radical differences in success with that of Gill Grint in Spyros Adventure, and because of that I don't feel comfortable recommending her for A personally (even though she can beat S tiers) since this is a general list.

On Bouncer's rocket path, Fists of Destruction! do 43 damage, but they don't go far, and are somewhat tricky to pull off before someone hits you.

Edit: With the I-Beam Supreme path, the fingerguns now do 8 damage, and a bit faster, the I-Beam does 10 damage when it's adjusting, and 30 damage when it is actually firing. When you drop mines, they hover in the air and fires out lasers in a very short range. They do 12 damage. They last for about 7 seconds, then disappear. I reckon this path should be in B too, the only attack that isn't useless in PvP is Fingerguns.

This topic... where has it gone?

I miss it...

REVIVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

Ok, so why does everyone think Golden Frenzy is so bad?

HOW COME NOBODY PAID ANY ATTENTION TO MY FLASHWING REVIEW ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE!?!

I believe that Flashwing should be in A-Teir on Super Shards, as mentioned before, it is a double-edged sword. I am the user who moves away fast and shoots from afar. Her shards shoot rapid fire on no end, doing 13 damage a pop! She has beaten my Tree Rex and Sprocket easily.

Quote: weebbby

HOW COME NOBODY PAID ANY ATTENTION TO MY FLASHWING REVIEW ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE!?!

It wasn't ignored. Well, definately not by me anyway. I guess no-one else in the thread had any comments to say about it besides all the general Flashwing talk going on around here anyway.

EDIT: @Skybagel: Glad you like this thread, but there's no need to act like it's been inactive. It just gets pushed over to the second page of the 'Giants thread index ocasionally because the 'Giants area of the forum is so popular right now! If you look at the date and time of the post before yours, you'd see that post was made earlier the same day.

As for why Golden Frenzy is so bad. Well, it's been discussed two, maybe three times in this thread already. I'm actually too tired to go through it again right now, but i'm sure someone else will happily explain it to you. If not, then I'll tell you myself some time tommorow I guess.

I've got a question: With Tree Rex's Treefolk Charger, how much damage does the Elbow Drop do and the Ultimate Stampede? I am on the Lumbering Laserer path so I don't know.

^ Not much, LL is much better, I was on TC, and switched, and LL is MUCH better.