darkSpyro

Hi Guys ~

Random kind of question here...I'm a massive fan of skylanders and I love how the giants and lightcores light up, but i barely get to see them light up as of course..theyre either on the portal and im playing
or theyre on the shelf and theyre not lit up

Im curious if any of you guys have any ideas or any links to someone smart enough to of created a device that allows the skylanders to light up when off the portal? ~ now i know i could simply
power a portal off usb and have one lit up..but i'd love to make something that could power a group of 4-5 in a small grouped up area.

Looking forward to hearing some suggestions !

Well, the only way I can think of doing this would be to replicate what the portal does over a larger scale, a shelf for example, whilst keeping the radio frequency signal constant over the whole surface.

The issue with that is the size of your shelf. For example, if you have a large shelf and had a copper wire running around the edge connected in the same way the portal works then (depending on the size of your shelf) then figures around the edges of your shelf would have a brighter light than figures in the middle of your shelf - the reason the portal itself works well is because it's small and over an even space.

The solution to that would be to have multiple rings of copper wire under the shelf and connect them to a power source much like the portal. But you'd then still need to connect it to a power source so you might as well just use the portal on it's own and keep your lightcore/giants on or around your portal.

Also, it's not just a copper ring that does it - or else you'd be able to set a Lightcore figure onto the 3DS portal when it's on and it'd work (and it only works when the 3DS portal is communicating).

It seems to me, the most effective way of doing this would be to get some spare portals, rip 'em apart, and use the spare parts in your shelf.

Yes, that's what I mean. You'd need the copper wire to be constantly receiving the same signal. If you were going to us any portal, you'd need to use the Giants one since that's the only one that is constantly sending/receiving signals when the game isn't on.

yeah, you raise a good point, i do have a spare portal as i had the ps3 version for the original, and i have the wii u version for giants, i may need to get creative thanks for your help guys!

Heh, I'd really be interested in seeing if anyone figures this one out, preferably without Frankensteining a portal... Wasteful and not everyone has a spare (I don't). Hard to manage without learning the specifics of what tells the figure to light up and/or how the light works (I had thought it was reflecting the light from the portal, but my guys light up even when close, even when on the side, and not when I shine a flashlight at the base)

i initially thought it was reflecting light, but its definitely powered through NFC, i dont know much more then that, but i would assume it would require an NFC transmitter of some sort to power the lightcore led's

If I'm just hanging out my xbox is always on for some reason or another. I just leave my portal plugged in and switch between who i want to look at lit up. I know that doesnt help at all..But thats what i do.

Quote: Tupelo

If I'm just hanging out my xbox is always on for some reason or another. I just leave my portal plugged in and switch between who i want to look at lit up. I know that doesnt help at all..But thats what i do.

In general I leave my XBox on 24/7 - generally with one of the Skylander games paused on the Ship/Ruins, when I'm not playing of course - and I find if I leave it alone long enough, must be less than a half hour, the portal light turns off. I know the wait time is longer than how long it takes my wireless controllers to turn off, but it's not a heck of a lot longer

How do the lightcores work anyway?

If I knew THAT I could do this myself, I have a degree in electronics design.

The only somewhat relevant information I can provide is that the portal's RFID reader operates at 13.56 MHz. Maybe if you can get something to broadcast that signal over a wider area, the lightcores would light up?

Quote: Orohu

The only somewhat relevant information I can provide is that the portal's RFID reader operates at 13.56 MHz. Maybe if you can get something to broadcast that signal over a wider area, the lightcores would light up?

Actually I wouldn't go for a wider area, I'd go for a Display Portal.... Something I could just plug in (either to the wall socket or a USB ) to keep it powered no matter what. Maybe wiring it into a shelf, so anything on the shelf lights up. I have a bookcase with glass shelves from Ikea, it would be AWESOME to wire up one of them like that,

Quote: Orohu

The only somewhat relevant information I can provide is that the portal's RFID reader operates at 13.56 MHz. Maybe if you can get something to broadcast that signal over a wider area, the lightcores would light up?

Do you happen to know the wattage?

I've done some research on this and can't really find anything on the lightcores to make them work with something other than the portal. I would be interested to know if you find something as well.

Tried a Yahoo search for "How do Skylanders light up", came across an article http://kotaku.com/5884643/its-...-certain-things which says:

Quote:

A radio frequency emitted from the portal triggers illumination in the figure. The strength of the frequency affects the brightness of the lights.

The article also includes a video clip from (presumably) last year's game fair, in the video clip they introduce this light up concept, and the guy says point blank "No batteries", which is something I've wondered. Since they're not reflecting the portal's light, I thought maybe the portal just uses the connection as an on/off switch to turn on a battery powered light, and eventually the battery would die and the figure wouldn't light up anymore. I'm glad it's not that, but it makes me wonder how the hell it's powered then? (Not just triggered, POWERED).

Quote: Tequiza

Quote: Orohu

The only somewhat relevant information I can provide is that the portal's RFID reader operates at 13.56 MHz. Maybe if you can get something to broadcast that signal over a wider area, the lightcores would light up?

Do you happen to know the wattage?

Well, researching RFID tags, I found that there are 3 classes of RFID tags: one read-only and two read/write. This frequency identifies exactly which class it is, one of the read/write ones. I would assume it's whatever wattage RFID readers/writers of that class operate at.

I really want to do this, but the only leads I have are towards the RFID end of things... If the lighting isn't triggered by the mere presence of an RFID reader, I've got nothing... And investing in RFID hardware is a risk. I found ThinkGeek has an intro to RFID kit, but it operates on the wrong class of tags, so it'll be useless here (too bad, it's easy to get and seems like a cheap way to start).

it's got nothing to do with the rfid chips. you just need a copper antenna and a resistor to get the portal to light an led ...

http://s1212.beta.photobucket....amagic.mp4.html

That video only shows the reverse, recreating the light up effect using the portal... Still, this shows an understanding of how it all works, this person could manage it. When I try to search for information, I get nothing though! And there's no information or description on that video!

Quote: niceguy1

That video only shows the reverse, recreating the light up effect using the portal... Still, this shows an understanding of how it all works, this person could manage it. When I try to search for information, I get nothing though! And there's no information or description on that video!

the person was me and i've found the original link information i used http://www.creative-science.or...LED_simple.html

have fun

Okay, I thought it might be you but I wasn't sure, LOL!

Thanks for the link! So you've recreated the Skylanders, at least the light-up part... LOL! Did you use the same/equivalent components from this website, or did you have to use a different diode or something? You mentioned using a resistor, and I see none in the circuit diagram...

Since this website specifies that it's to use to detect radio waves from phones, I tried seeing if my phone would light up my Skylanders, but no dice. LOL! I couldn't find a setting to change networks on my phone, as a smartphone it may not have the option.

^ lol - i do like where this conversation is going, we are starting to get close

my thinking is if you open up a portal and then patch in a larger copper wire you could extend the area that is putting out the energy to power the lightcores ... and there should be a way to make something mains powered to allow this to be plugged into a socket

i have a spare portal, and a spare tree rex..think im going to make a youtube vid of me dissecting both of them, ill post the results here when im done (granted it may yet be another week until i get time to do so.)

^ if you just want a lightcore to test functionality try and get hold of a lightcore drobot as the led is in the base and not in the actual figure

Quote: IJJusion

i have a spare portal, and a spare tree rex..think im going to make a youtube vid of me dissecting both of them, ill post the results here when im done (granted it may yet be another week until i get time to do so.)

Awesome!

Quote: t7gga

^ if you just want a lightcore to test functionality try and get hold of a lightcore drobot as the led is in the base and not in the actual figure

hmm, i am getting a lightcore drobot in the 3 pack of lightcores this coming week...but i dont want to damage/modify a figure that im actually using, the tree rex is a throw away sitting in my room for decoration at the moment, so its no loss. im curious to see the insides of them anyway ~ and i figure a giant is the best to dissect due to its size.

Cool, I'd definitely would like to see what you guys come up with...the technology alone is cool as heck to tinker with. Using RFID for games was such a ridiculously easy and ingenious idea...sometimes the best ideas are right in front of you.

Quote: t7gga

my thinking is if you open up a portal and then patch in a larger copper wire you could extend the area that is putting out the energy to power the lightcores ... and there should be a way to make something mains powered to allow this to be plugged into a socket

Well I think anybody interested in this would rather not Frankenstein their portal, LOL! Besides which, the portal turns off and (I believe) stops lighting the figures after a certain point. Something independant of the portal would be the most ideal, especially some setup that can plug into the wall (or perhaps a USB ).


Quote: IJJusion

i have a spare portal, and a spare tree rex..think im going to make a youtube vid of me dissecting both of them, ill post the results here when im done (granted it may yet be another week until i get time to do so.)

Awesome, keep us updated! I would advise being careful anyway... The portal probably comes apart, like with screws, but Tree Rex... I would try not to damage his RFID chip, in case it has something to do with the process, and RFID tags are easily damaged from what I know. I would run a sharp knife, like an X-Acto or hobbiest's knife, along the seam between the orange plate and the rest of the base... Looking at the bottom, it's quite clear to me that the orange plates are put on then rotated (notice the knobs), but glue must also be involved as I've never seen an orange plate that will rotate back. (I've tried a few times, half-heartedly)

For security purposes they sometimes hide screws under labels and such, so watch for that if the portal isn't coming apart for you.

Back to the copper wire, I have plenty of electronics wiring, the kind coated for shielding (if it isn't obvious by now, I have a degree in electronics design), would that work?

Ok, I actually had some time this evening and pulled apart two (yes..i got greedy) portals, it wasnt 'that' amazing what I found/did in the video, but its a start - just patching it together now, will be on youtube in the next 12-24 hours, ill let you know.

secondly, perhaps 'dissect' is the wrong term, as i have no intention of saving my tree rex, i was going to go at him with my old dremel and hack him to pieces, but i found that i am actually missing my saw blade attachment for my dremel..so now its going to have to be put on hold until i find another.

(hes a double as i found a very cheap starter pack for the 3ds, so i got it for the punch pop fizz, the other 2 figures i already had - so theyre there for me to destroy )

i may try being careful and prying him apart ~ I do (or 'did') model warhammer...so I do have an array of modelling knives at my disposal.

~ uploaded http://youtu.be/gIDv7AabgDI

as i said, there probably isnt much in the vid we didnt already expect, but it does give a little insight as to how it all works.

Quote: IJJusion

~ uploaded http://youtu.be/gIDv7AabgDI

as i said, there probably isnt much in the vid we didnt already expect, but it does give a little insight as to how it all works.

Nice video...thanks for sharing!

Quote: IJJusion

~ uploaded http://youtu.be/gIDv7AabgDI

as i said, there probably isnt much in the vid we didnt already expect, but it does give a little insight as to how it all works.

yup, proves my theory posted above ...

Quote: t7gga

my thinking is if you open up a portal and then patch in a larger copper wire you could extend the area that is putting out the energy to power the lightcores ...

yes, which is why i said 'there isnt much in the vid we didnt already expect' (or perhaps what you thought t7gga )

but it puts pictures to words i suppose lol building blocks, we will get a lightcore display yet!

Yes, definitely informative. And THANK YOU for speeding it up, LOL! We definitely don't need to see screws removed in real-time. And as I thought, the screws are hidden in an attempt to avoid kids from messing with it.

I'm starting to wonder if Power + Wire + Resistor (to avoid an actual short circuit of connecting positive to negative) will do it, if it just needs power running nearby to trigger it...

And for a larger area than the portal, which would be more effective...

1. A circle like the portal
   
2. This shape (let's call it MW):
   


3. Or this shape (let's call it @):
   

im no expert in the field of electronics, so i may be well off base with what im saying here

but the fact that in the video i was able to power the wireless portal but not light up tree rex, does that indicate that theres something else we need there in order to
power the LED's? it cant simply be power + cable?

Well I suspect that it's designed that way... Being wireless, maybe it doesn't "power" the copper wire if there's no wireless connection active. I DID read somewhere that the lights are powered by drawing the power wirelessly from the portal (that part still mystifies me, but I've seen cell phone charging mats which work like that), so lighting up the Giants/lightcores will use up power quicker. If there's no wireless connection, it might not power the wire in order to save battery power. Actually, I think you said the wireless one is an SSA one. It might accidentally work like that anyway, to conserve power. As it is I've heard left and right how the wireless portals eat batteries like no tomorrow. Between that and the extra power requirements, I hear that's why the Giants portals are ALL wired now. The portal's own light, in SSA that was the only light show, guess they made THAT light turn on whenever powered and attempting to connect, let you know it has enough battery power and what-not.

So yeah, my guess is power conservation.

I also noticed you had the copper coil out of position. It's unlikely, but it might be uni-directional, only projecting "up", and Tree Rex was "down" from the coil.

out of position yes, but it still transmitted through the wii u's cable when they touched, and the coil is looped onto the board, so i dont believe the way it was sitting makes any difference (and also the fact that when its fully assembled and i turn it on it wont light up the character until its wirelessly connected)

but you could be right about the power conservation

must...make...more...progress!

I just did an experiment... I took a wire clothes hanger and lay it across my (still intact) portal, letting it hang off to recreate what people call daisy chaining, and I was able to get some reaction off of the portal that I couldn't get without the hanger. My guys didn't light up as much, but I managed to get enough of a connection for the game to read a character standing well off of the portal, resting on the hanger. Wired right, I might be able to cut up and use the wire hanger as my "copper wire".

hmm interesting, and the fact that it wasnt directly connected to the copper cable within the portal probably weakened the signal, would be interesting to get a 5 meter length of cable and see how far the signal will travel (when directly connected to the existing cable.

I feel like the odd shape is what helped weaken the signal... The circle probably focuses the signal for maximum strength (I think it's no coincidence that the portals are all round). A rectangular portal whose short side is as big as these round portals wouldn't be much bigger, but would fit things MUCH easier, yet still they're round.

I've seen videos where people put an unpowered portal next to and touching the active portal, and putting a character or magic item on it seems to be just as strong a connection as if on the real portal. But move the portal a quarter of an inch away, barely not touching, and no glow, no connection anymore. They call this daisy chaining (though before now I've heard that term as meaning to wire one thing to the next, like plugging one extension cord into another, and in this case there's no physical connection other than touch). I even saw someone do this with two full-sized portals for characters and a small 3DS portal reserved for a magic item.

the wire coathanger will not transmit well ... copper is used specifically because it is a good transmitter

Yeah, I had trouble digging up some copper wire lying around... All I could find at a cursory glance was speaker wire (of indeterminate material) and lead solder. The former would obviously need to be stripped of its sheilding, which I don't want to do during testing to avoid wasting it, and neither worked. Which is weird, because both are designed for conducting electricity.

"designed for conducting electricity" ... ah, but not for transmitting signals

it needs to be solid copper wire, not the strands used in normal wiring

this is going to be my job for the weekend...get cable..run it from an opened portal and see how far i can get the signal

Well somewhere I should have the wires we would use for circuit design... Stranded wire was always a pain to work with, so any electric circuit wire I have would be solid....

And I can't think of how I could get copper wire... I don't usually know what stuff around me is made of, LOL!

OK so I posted this question in reddit's /r/skylanders sub, and I was pointed to this thread...

I'm a radio communications technician that does work for the military and after reading this thread and watching the videos here's what I gathered: (Copy pasta from what I wrote on reddit)

OK So from the thread that portalflip linked, this is what I gathered.
You need an RF Signal Generator that generates RF at 13.56 MHz. The power I assume is really really low, less than 1W I'd guess. The way these lights work is that the RF Energy is transmitted via the copper ring once the 'portal' decides that it's good to go (when it achieves communication with the console, and not before, so as to conserve power in the case of the wireless model). If you could isolate the RF generator portion of the circuit board, you could force it into an 'always on' state and use that. OR the better option is to either buy or build your own RF Signal Generator that operates at 13.56 MHz and is lower power.
This RF Energy is transmitted into the air via the copper antenna (the ring) which doesn't need to be a ring btw, it could be any metal really and any shape. Some will work better than others of course.
That RF Energy is POWER (wattage) which in turn is received by the LED's power circuit and provides enough energy to light up the LED's.
SO, in case it's not clear, RF Generator at 13.56 MHz at an unknown (low) power level, will turn on these LED's. I just so happen to have access to an RF Signal generator I use in my field of work to test radio communications equipment for the military, so I'll tinker around with it this weekend and see if I can get something to work :3
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[–]bsmithi[s] 13 hours ago
Thinking back on it, I'm not even so sure that the frequency has to be that specific frequency. The LED's circuit may just be powered by RF energy that is naturally generated in this application (to communicate with the RFID chip) at that frequency. I'm pretty sure the way the LED's would work, would work with ANY frequency at sufficient wattage/proximity

On the other thread, someone had mentioned that Skylanders will light up if you pass them over the card readers used by some public transit systems, it seems like it would be (a little) coincidental if it happens to be the same frequency. But that's definitely a good place to start. Of the electronic design equipment I have, an RF Signal Generator isn't one of them, so I can't check, really, LOL!

Also the game/portal doesn't "decide" that it's good to go and turn on the lights. At least the game doesn't. First of all, if the game isn't running you can still light the lights. Secondly, if SSA is running, it doesn't know anything about Lightcores (they came up with that feature later), and the figures do still light up. So far I don't think I have any light-up characters which work in SSA - the giants don't, of course, and other than that I think I only have LC Jet Vac and LC Pop Fizz, new characters who also don't work in SSA - so I can't test that more thoroughly, but if the non-functional ones light up, the functional ones certainly should.

And I just realize you mean when the portal is connected to the console, LOL! Which begs the question, if a wired portal was plugged into some other USB (not a console, not a computer), would the portal work to light the lights? Simply by being powered? Wireless probably wouldn't due to not having a system to sync with the portal.

That's what I mean about the portal "deciding" to turn the lights on.

A wireless portal has to conserve battery life. So it's not going to radiate RF energy to communicate with an RFID chip (which consequently will cause the LED's to illuminate from said RF energy) unless it knows it is connected to a system/game. The wired ones may not have this portion of the circuit because who cares about conserving energy when it's plugged in.

The fact that the old SSA portal lights up the new LC figures shows that it's nothing 'special' that the portal is doing to cause the lights to come on, and this is further reinforced by what you say about the card readers used in public transit. That frequency is a standard frequency for a particular class of RFID reader. A public transit reader is going to be constantly 'broadcasting' since they are plugged in, so I'm willing to bet money that all we need to do is generate an RF signal into open air to illuminate the LED's. It may or may not need to be specifically 13.56MHz but I'm also willing to bet it doesn't because for the LED's circuit to only come on with that frequency of RF energy, it would require a relatively more complex circuit to 'detect' that frequency of RF energy and disregard the rest.

I'll test this tomorrow and see.

Ok, in case you didn't read my replies in another thread...

Skylanders are RFID MiFare. 13.56Mghz, it's a standard. ALMOST ALL systems use a similar method.

The portal only powers the figures when the game is active and wants to read them, otherwise as mentioned, it would drain batteries.

While different shapes and lengths of antenna WILL work, the whole system is "tuned" to work best with certain shapes and lengths.

If you want to power a shelf of Skylanders your best bet would be a rectangle, just deep enough to fit the figures inside it but wide enough to fit say 8 Skylanders.
This simply has to be a loop of wire in multiples of I believe 30cm.

A crystal oscillator circuit at 13.56mghz will generate the right signal, then a power transistor on the output to power the Antenna and figures will do the job.

There are 2 ways to generate 14.56mghz. A ready made 4 pin Oscillator (most seem to be awkward surface mount these days) which simply needs 5v, gnd and has a 13.56mghz output.
OR, a 13.56 crystal and a small circuit with a couple of capacitors and an old logic chip.
This circuit is well documented and is a basic electronics design all over the web.

To "tune" the circuit, when it's powered and skylander is lit (or not) experiment with varying the length of the Antenna, this may be as much as mm adjustments or whole cm.

I have like 5 Portals, 2 of which are dedicated for hacking. They are in pieces right now with many wires soldered to them so you can trust me on this info

Ok, I filmed this quickly... As you can see, making a receiver for the power is incredibly easy.