darkSpyro

Yeah, so I just took a look at Metallo's LGBT topic, and I was immediately pushed all the way back to the dS homepage by the tense atmosphere in there. This reminded me of something I've been wanting to say to the general populace of this forum for a long time. If you already know and understand all this stuff that's great, keep at it; If you don't, never fear! Now you can learn.
Anyway, you can probably guess what I'm talking about...

"My opinion is yadda yadda.."
"Your opinon is wrong my opinion is yadda yadda!.."

...Sound familiar?

I'd hate to spoil it for anybody, but there's no such thing as opinions, okay? That's basically it.
Opinions are simply points of view, they have no factual value of any kind altough they can offer new context to the discussion.

There are no "good opinions", they are called "facts"
There are no "bad opinions", they are simply misbeliefs (or no beliefs at all) caused by lack of information.

And get this. Every single opinion that has ever existed is a result of logical analysis, meaning that everyone will arrive at the same conclusion when they have the same context and the same information, just like in math. People just don't (and can't) have all that, so you can't ever expect everybody to think exactly alike.

Now that we're all aware of the things mentioned above, let's proceed further onto my point.

Legitimate, civilized discussions of any serious subjects will never happen on this forum or anywhere else, as long as people keep getting worked up by opinions that they do not agree with.
That is basically wasted energy, projected at disproving the point of view of another person (or just attacking the person themselves), rather than explaining your own. In a debate where people seek truth it doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right. It only matters what is true.

Grasp that difference, it's important whenever you're arguing with anybody. You want the truth, the real deal, whatever it is and in whatever way it is presented. You're not looking to bruteforce your own opinion to the top.

And if you disagree with someone else and get your own statement legitimately disproved, what does it matter? It's okay to change your opinion based on new information that you didn't have before. That's how all learning happens. You don't go to school thinking you know everything and refusing to listen to your teacher either. You'd end up learning nothing and where would that leave you?

Don't be afraid of not reaching an unanimous "consensus" either. Diversity of ideas is a great thing, given that people are willing to mix and refine those ideas into something better instead of hanging on to their own.

So there. I hope those who cared to read this wall of text learned something new. I've always wanted to see a sticky like this on SaN but there hasn't been many arguments around lately, so I dunno..

Now lastly, just so that there are no misunderstandings. I know that the incident we had at Metallo's topic happened not because of MagicFizz having a differing opinion. It happened because he stated his case pretty harshly, and basically judged a really large group of people seemingly without looking into the matter at all.
In the end people were being pretty harsh with him too, DragonCamo even laughed in his face and called him an attention whore when he said that he felt terrible and claimed to harm himself. That wasn't exactly a shining example of tolerance.
Anyhow, that whole incident should serve as an example for everybody to stay objective when discussing serious subjects, and sticking to your senses instead of saying what you feel like saying.

Quote: Seiki

omg so much tl;dr.....


Though yeah.... The problem wasn't really the opinion more how it was presented. This also isn't really the first time this has happened in regards to MF posting about how he feels about homosexuals. :/

I dunno if you read it all or not, but I did acknowledge that in the end of the post.
And if it's not the first time he's done that it's especially strange to see everyone react so strongly to what he said. It obviously wasn't a well thought-out post to begin with.

Quote: HIR

Very good points you raise, Samius. Especially when you consider that scientific principles, at their most basic levels, need to be testable (you can prove them true) and falsifiable (you can prove them false). So while certain facts are set in stone, we're still working our way toward the truth in a large number of things. And when you live in a world filled with different cultures that take different approaches to their lives, you're bound to have disagreements.

Hmm, I think I'm confusing myself again. ^.^

Exactly, people will also never reach real consensus as long as their motives differ. For everybody to work in unison in anything they'd all need a singular goal and similar viewpoints on the matter at hand.

The only real examples of anything even close to that are catastrophic events. War makes people act together (as long as it endangers everybody, and not just some soldiers fighting overseas), as well as natural disasters do.
Events like these are perceived as "opposition" by a large group of people, and so they all see these things as mutual problems that need to be dealt with. This enables them to work together.

But, when there is no outer factor inconveniencing people's lives on a personal level, they're left to their own motivations again.. ..And squabbling ensues.

Quote: Tel Prydain

I like your words, Samius

Thank you, I'm glad some of you bothered to read the thing.

I knew what would happen when I posted this on SaN as opposed to Idle Chatter, but luckily posts that don't contribute to the discussion can always be completely ignored. They are, after all, completely useless.

Quote: Metallo

Honestly I agree.

But how can you say that fact is what all people search for? I know it's not what I search for.

I didn't say that, did I? If there's a misunderstanding about something could you show me that part so that I may elaborate?

But yeah I guess you could think that in a way, because "the truth" (whatever it may be) is always an established fact, not an opinion.
Not all people look for truth in everything, however. People act according to their own motives.

Quote: Bluh

Couldn't use better words Samius

Thank you.

Quote: SoulFly

Clever.
Siinä on ihana tapa lopettaa mielipide-sodat.

Kato ku tää oikeasti lopettaa mitään. Vain ne jotka välittää jaksaa lukea, mutta kiitokset kuitenkin.

Thanks Carol, I'm glad I could help someone with some information.

Quote: SoulFly

Kyllä Se sodat lopettaa.
Olisi kolmas valtakuntakin kaatunut

Se nyt kaatu muutenki.

Quote: hardcoreignitor

I skimmed this before, read it nioow and you actually have some insightful thoughts. here.

Thanks.

Quote: Ninpire

I found a grammatical error in the topic title.

Ah, it seems I left that there by accident.

The topic title was originally supposed to be "An opinion on opinions", but I changed it and seemingly didn't notice that one error.

Well, thanks for telling me.