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The Definitive Skylanders PvP Tier List: Swap Force Edition [STICKY]
wreckingballbob Emerald Sparx Gems: 4420
#201 Posted: 20:40:41 18/12/2013
Quote: zap18
Quote: wreckingballbob
Zoo Lou Bucking Boar should be B, A or S tier.

If you ride the boar send out a wolf and spam birds, your opponent is defeated easily.

I beat Slobber Tooth Seismic Tail and Smolderdash Sun Forged-I need to do more tests on stronger Skylanders.

Wrecking Ball total tongue should be moved higher.

With Wrecking Ball Total Tongue I defeated Ghost Roaster Skull Master and Series 2 Terrafin Brawler.


This topic really doesn't need bias. It's pretty obvious that the person with Terrafin wasn't trying/an experienced player.
An E tier character beating an S tier character is probably as likely as finding a Wikked Thumpback


Wrecking Ball is highly improved in this game!

30 damage a Tongue Wrap and with how fast it goes that damage is great.

Maybe Terrafin isn't as good as he once was.
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5.7.
Hazard335 Yellow Sparx Gems: 1435
#202 Posted: 16:04:54 21/12/2013
Quote: Zenephret
I did not test both paths of Rattle Shake so I can't give you a good opinion there, but I personally feel Night Shift's better upper path is Proper Vampire for the following reasons.

you need to post more, I bet you have tons of pvp path recommendations that I want to read.
have you done any more testing on Scorp? or Free Ranger?

Quote: Arc of Archives
I have a Shake down Grave Springer. I think the charge up secondary move could be used to get him some distance, possibly, but seems unlikely. It's not a very powerful attack and takes some time to charge, so I would go with Bone Herder, but I didn't try that much either. It's been a while since I played him, so take that with a pinch of salt. Shake isn't great in PVP no matter wether you pick Bone or Grave, from my experience, so I would say just pick which you find more fun for Story. You can always reset the bottom and upgrade it the other way by using a top half that has a lot of gold.


Im still on the fence with Shake. I know there isnt really much of a difference, but im just to OCD to make a disision on my own lol. I don’t really have any skilled players to play with, and I have tried both paths. I just need more input from people like you because Im just weird like that.

Quote: EgoNaut
I must admit I feel what we could really do with right now is someone like Tashiji from the previous tier list threads; someone who will go the whole way to thoroughly and objectively evaluate large numbers of the old Skylanders in one go. If someone was willing to do that sort of work to all of the old pre-swap force Skylanders then it would really get things moving around here.

Quote: Arc of Archives
Okay guys, I'm putting this in this thread because I contributed the most here and this was the only one I cared for that much. I won't be making many more PVP contributions from now, because between all the sites I visit I've decided that I don't enjoy visiting darkSpyro that much any more and am leaving the forum. Good luck with the tiering guys, and sorry I won't be helping you with it any more. I didn't post here much in the past couple of weeks, and did a lot of testing I never ended up posting about, but it was really fun and kept PVP interesting for me. I intend to keep an eye on this thread a little because I do find it really fun, though, so maybe I'll be posting once or twice in a while if something needs more input.

First Tashiji goes away, and now Arc. Are you posting your recommendations else where Arc? Please let me know if you are.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 16:13:18 21/12/2013 by Hazard335
breakfastpugbam Blue Sparx Gems: 973
#203 Posted: 16:35:13 21/12/2013
Dont underdstand
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You can't compete with all that puginess.
All the pugginess was had that day.
Hazard335 Yellow Sparx Gems: 1435
#204 Posted: 17:08:27 21/12/2013
^this being posted right after my post, for some reason just makes me miss Tashiji and Arc even more smilie
Im starting to worry that this thread is going to die soon unless we do something.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 17:09:55 21/12/2013 by Hazard335
Mrmorrises Emerald Sparx Gems: 4958
#205 Posted: 17:15:22 21/12/2013
Quote: Hazard335
^this being posted right after my post, for some reason just makes me miss Tashiji and Arc even more smilie
Im starting to worry that this thread is going to die soon unless we do something.



I agree, his work in the SSA thread was the most impressive.
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"Well, the gate swung open and a fig newton entered."
wreckingballbob Emerald Sparx Gems: 4420
#206 Posted: 19:03:14 21/12/2013
Okay I have been testing Zoo Lou / Bucking Boar.

In the S Tier I only beat Terrafin S2 / Brawler and was defeated by Star Strike / Cosmic Reflector, Chop Chop S2 / Undead Defender and Rattle Shake / Deputy's Duty / Bone Herder.

So he shouldn't be S Tier.

However, in the A Tier I was able to defeat Ninjini / Swords of Might, Drobot / Master Blaster Stealth Elf S2 / Pook Blade Saint and Zook S2 / Floral Defender.

So I think he should be A Tier as he can spam his birds and ride his Boar.

Me and my brother both traded Characters on each go.

Wrecking Ball / Total Tongue can beat Terrafin S2 / Brawler and Star Strike / Cosmic Defender (Although I didn't get a go using her and I know how to use her better).

I would like more people to test Zoo Lou / Bucking Boar and Wrecking Ball / Total Tongue.
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5.7.
EgoNaut Yellow Sparx Gems: 1730
#207 Posted: 02:10:19 22/12/2013 | Topic Creator
@Gillgrunt987: Thanks for providing our first A-Tier-related recommendation! It's brilliantly useful that the tests you based your recommendation on were specific to A and S Tier Skylanders, even if there were only three of them. Because of that you've made a strong case for moving Hot Head / Burninator at least to B Tier for the moment (we'll move him down to C Tier later on if necessary when we get round to re-evaluating the B Tier).
So that we can get things moving along around here, I'm thinking i'll move him in to the B tier after a couple of days from now unless any further suggestions are expressed about him in the meantime.


@Angry Rage Quit: The Skylanders are currently arranged within each tier by element groups in the following order: Magic>Tech>Earth>Air>Fire>Water>Life>Undead. Within each element, the Skylanders are listed as follows: Original Skylanders>Series 2 Newlanders>Giants>Series 3 Newlanders>Swaplanders
Does anyone think it would be a better idea to have them arranged alphabetically? Feel free to give your opinions on this!


@Tigerbear222: Your post has reminded me of a question I need to ask everyone...
During the PvP I have done myself in Swap Force I have not yet used the "Fair Fight" feature. Can anyone inform me about what mechanics it changes during battles in Swap Force? Does it simply disable upgrades like it did in SA and 'Giants, or does it do anything different now?


@Hazard335: As long as there are people on this forum who still want to see a working Swap Force tier list at some point, I personally don't think this thread will ever die. It's progress might be very, very slow at times, but it won't die.
If people disagree with me here and are still worried about the lack of activity and/or organisation in this thread then do speak up. I am, as always, open to suggestions for things I or someone else could do to make things more organised around here.


@Wreckingballbob: I really like your post here about Zoo Lou! It's really easy to follow because of how you broke it up in to tier-related sentences like that. Thanks! smilie
It's also awesome to see that you and your brother swapped control of characters to have fairer tests. Keep up the good work!



  • I am planning to move Hot Head / The Burninator down to B Tier in a couple of days time. Would anyone have objections to this? Does anyone think he should be moved down even lower, perhaps to C Tier? Please provide your comments! Also, some research would be appreciated on Hot Head / Oil Baron!
  • Does anyone else think Zoo Lou / Bucking Boar should be in A Tier? Please provide your comments!
  • I understand that Wrecking Ball / Total Tongue has improved significantly in Swap Force. (I recall reading a post about how much his damage numbers have increased, though I can no longer find where that post was.) We need some solid research done on Wrecking Ball / Total Tongue so that we can get his Tier position nailed down!
  • At the moment, the Skylanders are arranged in each Tier by element groups. - A suggestion has come up that they should instead be arranged alphabetically. Does anyone think that this would be more helpful?
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Edited 2 times - Last edited at 02:14:25 22/12/2013 by EgoNaut
Tigerbear222 Green Sparx Gems: 358
#208 Posted: 02:20:58 22/12/2013
@Egonaut As far as I know, it never disabled upgrades. It only evened out the levels of the Skylanders. For example, a Lvl 1 against a Lvl 20 would even the levels to 10-10, but the experience would go from 1<2, and so on.

I know it never disabled upgrades because I am able to use all upgrades on the path I chose for every Skylander I tested.

BTW, I have some info on Zoo Lou/ Wild Wolf. It is bad in PvP, seeing as the wolf dies quickly to almost ANY attack, and that it is essentially useless. I tested it on A and S tier characters and I lost to almost every single one. I think Zoo Lou/ Wild Wolf NEEDS to be in C-Tier or lower, IMHO.
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My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/thetigerbearman123
Hazard335 Yellow Sparx Gems: 1435
#209 Posted: 02:56:50 22/12/2013
I think the way you arrange the list already is the best possible way.
wreckingballbob Emerald Sparx Gems: 4420
#210 Posted: 11:44:00 23/12/2013
I'll ask my brother if we can test someone else today.

More people need to test Zoo Lou / Bucking Boar for A Tier!
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5.7.
gillgrunt987 Emerald Sparx Gems: 4733
#211 Posted: 13:55:36 23/12/2013
Thanks Egonaut. More testing done soon. I'll focus my efforts on Slam Bam S2 Blizzard Brawler next. Unfortunately, one of my mums friends sons is coming over with her. He loves Skylanders, but he's as skilled as a snowflake(moves randomly and melts quickly). True story. So I will hopefully get my sister to help test instead.
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I can survive scalding hot coffee and being whipped for 24 hours a day. Digestive biscuits or riot.
EgoNaut Yellow Sparx Gems: 1730
#212 Posted: 23:10:18 23/12/2013 | Topic Creator
I'm driving off to spend christmas with my cousins tommorow and I may not be able to check on this thread for a while, so I'll make a couple of Tier list changes now...


  • Hot Head / The Burninator moved down to B Tier based on gillgrunt987's recommendations. We can re-position him some more later if people come up with other ideas. We still need research done on Hot Head / Oil Baron, too!
  • Sprocket / Operator moved down to B Tier based on some of Arc of Archives' recommendations from a while back.
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Hazard335 Yellow Sparx Gems: 1435
#213 Posted: 05:43:19 24/12/2013
does Sprocket's wow pow do anything for her in pvp?
EgoNaut Yellow Sparx Gems: 1730
#214 Posted: 23:26:27 28/12/2013 | Topic Creator
I'm back. I hope you've all had a brilliant Christmas!
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GhostRoaster24 Blue Sparx Gems: 942
#215 Posted: 17:03:19 29/12/2013
Thanks, you too! smilie

Now on topic, I don't think this will make any significant changes to Ninjini's Tiering, but after using her for a bit in Swap Force, I noticed a couple of things:

  • Her bottle seems to move a lot faster, which may or may not make it harder to be hit by an enemy's attacks.
  • And also, I don't know if I'm just seeing it wrong, but Ninjini's four orb attack (can't think of its name at the moment) seems to move slower. Maybe it's just me, so I would highly appreciate someone else also give Ninjini a go.

Other changes worth noting that I've noticed are:
Tree Rex has been nerfed. I'm pretty sure of this one. His Shockwave Slam's shockwave does not go near as far as it did in Giants. Also, his Photosynthesis Cannon seems harder to control in Swap Force without activating his charged up laser (can't think of that name, either.)
Stealth Elf does is indeed slower than ever in Swap Force. Sorry is that has been already established, just confirming it. smilie On the bright side, however, her Acrobatic Spin (I'm a little off today with my names) seems to be faster and longer than in Giants if you hold down Z.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 17:04:35 29/12/2013 by GhostRoaster24
wrecknroll Yellow Sparx Gems: 1044
#216 Posted: 17:44:08 29/12/2013
S2 Wrecking Ball has increased greatly in damage numbers to 156 for a one hit and 286 for a crit.Just sharing.
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My collection! http://imgur.com/gallery/G7lsX
wreckingballbob Emerald Sparx Gems: 4420
#217 Posted: 18:05:17 29/12/2013
Quote: wrecknroll
S2 Wrecking Ball has increased greatly in damage numbers to 156 for a one hit and 286 for a crit.Just sharing.



What attack and what path?
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5.7.
GhostRoaster24 Blue Sparx Gems: 942
#218 Posted: 21:49:02 29/12/2013
Quote: wrecknroll
S2 Wrecking Ball has increased greatly in damage numbers to 156 for a one hit and 286 for a crit.Just sharing.



Wait, what?! That's insane! That's like, S Tier already if the attack is even semi-easy to use. smilie
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Tumblr: hunter-alex
Arc of Archives Yellow Sparx Gems: 1486
#219 Posted: 04:40:01 30/12/2013
I'm just posting this because I've seen a lot of people suggesting X character should be A-Tier. There can't possibly be that many A-Tier characters, and if there are- we really need to work on balancing them more.

Quote: GhostRoaster24
Quote: wrecknroll
S2 Wrecking Ball has increased greatly in damage numbers to 156 for a one hit and 286 for a crit.Just sharing.



Wait, what?! That's insane! That's like, S Tier already if the attack is even semi-easy to use. smilie

Nope, I think not. I know it sounds like a lot, but consider pretty much everyone has 800+ HP now(and some non-Giants have 1000+) and you need to use it just as often as before. It's simply scaling him up.

If they've made it (uhh, I'm assuming this attack is the disco ball?) easier to use then maybe but I can see him being A-Tier easily. But he doesn't seem to have any especially broken skill that would really warrant S-Tier. I haven't actually used him a lot in PVP so I don't really remember what tweaks he has, but keep this in mind: S-Tier isn't about pure power, unless a Skylander is exceptionally strong like S2 Hex was. S2 Hex's power would still be useless without substance, for instance, if it were too difficult to ever actually set up. (SA is the exception to this rule... because the tiering was a lot simpler and more blunt then)

No, S-Tier is about Skylanders who absolutely WALL a large amount of Skylanders and take a ridiculous amount of skill, luck and a really good Skylander to beat. Who are basically UNFAIR to use. Remember, as I posted before we judge things objectively, so if he is S-Tier he should wall everything without needing to "play him right". Yes, when you know how to use a Skylander it helps, but if we put everyone in high tiers just because if you "use them right" they can be as good as a high-tier character, EVERYONE would be high-tier and this list would be pointless. S-Tier is about CHEAP characters who even beginning players can use and probably still win with against a non S-Tier.

In my opinion, we should do the same as Smogon in the case of the S-Tier: S-Tier is a ban list first and an actual tier second. Its primary use is to ban Skylanders that even A-Tier characters can't compete against without luck and stupid amounts of skill and patience, and who you'll probably still lose against then. S-Tier should be used to keep characters that are just too strong from standard tiers so that they aren't totally unfair and don't completely unbalance everything.

The question here isn't how strong Wrecking Ball is, it's wether characters who aren't in S-Tier can actually, objectively compete against him fairly.

Is the disco ball easy to avoid, difficult to aim, how fast is it, does it still make him invincible, do the characters in A-Tier have attacks that can whittle him down at a fair rate? (The latter is the most important question and I think it's one of the biggest points about an S-Tier.)
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 04:49:23 30/12/2013 by Arc of Archives
GhostRoaster24 Blue Sparx Gems: 942
#220 Posted: 04:54:35 30/12/2013
Quote: Arc of Archives
Quote: GhostRoaster24
Quote: wrecknroll
S2 Wrecking Ball has increased greatly in damage numbers to 156 for a one hit and 286 for a crit.Just sharing.



Wait, what?! That's insane! That's like, S Tier already if the attack is even semi-easy to use. smilie

Nope, I think not. I know it sounds like a lot, but consider pretty much everyone has 800+ HP now(and some non-Giants have 1000+) and you need to use it just as often as before. It's simply scaling him up.

If they've made it (uhh, I'm assuming this attack is the disco ball?) easier to use then maybe but I can see him being A-Tier at the best. I haven't actually used him a lot in PVP so I don't really remember what tweaks he has, but keep this in mind: S-Tier isn't about pure power, unless a Skylander is exceptionally strong like S2 Hex was.

It's about Skylanders who absolutely WALL a large amount of Skylanders and take a ridiculous amount of skill, luck and a really good Skylander to beat. Who are basically UNFAIR to use. Remember, as I posted before we judge things objectively, so if he is S-Tier he should wall everything without needing to "play him right". Yes, when you know how to use a Skylander it helps, but if we put everyone in high tiers just because if you "use them right" they can be as good as a high-tier character, EVERYONE would be high-tier. S-Tier is about CHEAP characters who even beginning players can use and probably still win with against a non S-Tier.

In my opinion, we should do the same as Smogon in the case of the S-Tier: S-Tier is a ban list first and an actual tier second. Its primary use is to ban Skylanders that even A-Tier characters can't compete against without luck and stupid amounts of skill and patience, and who you'll probably still lose against then. S-Tier should be used to keep characters that are just too strong from standard tiers so that they aren't totally unfair and don't completely unbalance everything.

The question here isn't how strong Wrecking Ball is, it's wether characters who aren't in S-Tier can actually, objectively compete against him fairly.

Is the disco ball easy to avoid, difficult to aim, how fast is it, does it still make him invincible?


Everything you said is true. Honestly, I also agree with the whole S-Tier is a banlist first, tier second concept. I've actually been following Smogon for quite some time, and the Banlist first concept makes much more sense. Think about it this way (for all of you Pokémon fans,) imagine if somehow (SOMEHOW BY A MIRACLE) Arceus fails to succeed in Ubers completely, so therefore, he dropped down into OU! Arceus in Overused. Just Imagine that.

I apologize if the Pokémon reference was off topic, but if he/she wrecks the A-Tier, they should without a doubt be sent to S-Tier, whether they do well there or not.

Also, while making references to Smogon, would anybody feel that once in a while (AFTER EVERYTHING IS TIERED), we should have Suspect Tests? See who is too strong and/or too weak for the tier they are currently in? I know many of you will probably moan and groan for trying to make it too similar to Pokémon, but they (Smogon) have a well-organized and well-balanced Tiering System. It would help us have more defined and precise tiers! This is just a thought, so any additional ideas and comments/opinions would help very much. If you disagree with the idea, please share why! smilie
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Arc of Archives Yellow Sparx Gems: 1486
#221 Posted: 05:02:02 30/12/2013
^ Yes, I agree. Haha Smogon is incredibly organised, despite the rep they get sometimes smilie
Buuzer Hunter Gems: 4316
#222 Posted: 08:12:50 30/12/2013
Quote: Buuzer
I noticed that:
Eye Brawl - Brawler path is better than Eye for eye path. Now his eye is very very slow and weak. His punch do 50 per hit and his combo does high damage. The armor give more protection.

Bouncer - His rocket path is overpowered now. A rocket do 50 dmg, with the Rockets on Demand he can launch unlimited rockets very fast. He shoots his projectiles very slow and move slowly like Hot Head/Burminator

Hot Head - His Burminator path looks weak now. I'll try to change into the right path.

Fright Rider - His Sir Lance A Lot path is better because his Joust Jockey path was very nerfed, uneseful combo and slow spin.

Flameslinger - His pyromancer stay powerful, they buffed it.


I've re-quoted my post if anyone didn't see it.
And I've tested the Oil Baron for Hot Head. Oil Baron >>> Burminator.
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smilie smilie smilie youtube.com/user/GOWBuuzer smilie smilie smilie
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 08:14:35 30/12/2013 by Buuzer
Arc of Archives Yellow Sparx Gems: 1486
#223 Posted: 14:51:30 30/12/2013
Guys, I've decided to make a blog to archive PVP (as well as story mode, and possible general franchise) "analysis" about Skylanders. Why? We don't seem to have anything that just archives reviews and analysis on Skylanders, and I feel like it would be a really useful to have that so there are notes on how useful each Skylander is besides just vague tiering. It also helps because then we can see why we agreed a Skylander belonged in a certain tier without having to dig through pages upon pages to find them and can just look at the blog instead.

However, I'm looking for suggestions at the moment- you guys got anything you think should be on there?

Currently I'm planning on making one for finished analysis- ones we check and agree on, then have "standardised" as that Skylander's own unofficially official article- and for posts that help with understanding PVP like that old "Tier List Clarifications" thread Nibelilt made. I'm considering another for gathering unfinished notes to dump useful notes to finish analysing more easily, and just check what we've observed. What do you guys think?
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 14:54:59 30/12/2013 by Arc of Archives
mario kart 9 Blue Sparx Gems: 772
#224 Posted: 19:36:00 30/12/2013
This my opinion

Bumble blast/honey tree
scorp stinger
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Something smelss fishy in here LOL Riptide FTW
GhostRoaster24 Blue Sparx Gems: 942
#225 Posted: 00:28:28 31/12/2013
Quote: Buuzer
Quote: Buuzer
I noticed that:
Eye Brawl - Brawler path is better than Eye for eye path. Now his eye is very very slow and weak. His punch do 50 per hit and his combo does high damage. The armor give more protection.

Bouncer - His rocket path is overpowered now. A rocket do 50 dmg, with the Rockets on Demand he can launch unlimited rockets very fast. He shoots his projectiles very slow and move slowly like Hot Head/Burminator

Hot Head - His Burminator path looks weak now. I'll try to change into the right path.

Fright Rider - His Sir Lance A Lot path is better because his Joust Jockey path was very nerfed, uneseful combo and slow spin.

Flameslinger - His pyromancer stay powerful, they buffed it.


I've re-quoted my post if anyone didn't see it.
And I've tested the Oil Baron for Hot Head. Oil Baron >>> Burminator.


Would you mind elaborating on some of your reviews (for lack of a better term)? For example, how was Pyromancer buffed? Is he faster? Does his Supernova do increased damage or affect a larger area?

Also, concerning The Burninator on Hot Head, what do you mean when you said "His Burninator path looks weak now." Does it just look weaker? Does he do less damage?

Regarding Bouncer, I can definitely confirm that his projectiles shoot a lot slower. I haven't tried his rockets yet, however.
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Burning Gnorc Emerald Sparx Gems: 3463
#226 Posted: 18:44:46 31/12/2013
Question for anyone; which path for TH Camo would be the better one in SSF?
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scratchking22 Blue Sparx Gems: 725
#227 Posted: 00:19:59 01/01/2014
Grilla Drilla/Double Punches/Banana Turrent should be A tier. The punches get really powerful and the rapid-fire banana turrents but up a lot of damage quickley.
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~ Clinton/Kaine 2016 ~
EgoNaut Yellow Sparx Gems: 1730
#228 Posted: 02:12:20 01/01/2014 | Topic Creator
Happy new year everyone!

I completely agree with this notion of the S Tier being considered a ban list more than an actual tier. - In fact this has practically put in to words an idea I felt i've been trying to convey for a while now without being able to think of the words to do so. Thanks for that. smilie

@Arc of Archives: I am excited at the prospect of your Skylanders PvP blog! What it sounds like you're doing is making something similar to the information banks about each Skylander which I already make for myself, but having them publicly available in an organised and presentable format. I'm all up for having something like this made available, so I look forward to supporting your project if it goes forward! You can contact me if you need any quotes from my own information banks on any particular Skylander.


@Buuzer: What GhostRoaster24 said. - We need more elaboration on what you actually mean by each bit of information you've given there.

@Burning Gnorc: Until we get any PvP analysis done on Thorn Horn Camo, this is the wrong thread to ask that sort of question I'm afraid. If you can find an upgrade path recommendation thread elsewhere in the Swap Force forum then you'd be better off posting your question there.

@scratchking22: I'm assuming you're talking about Grilla Drilla / Drilling Punches / Banana Blaster, but your post is also very vague. Can you elaborate on why you think this particular upgrade path combination of Grilla Drilla should specifically be in the A Tier? Can you provide comparisons of the performance and feel of this character with other characters in the A Tier to prove that he competes with them? Please remember that the tiers are not just a "power rating" of how powerful we think a Skylander is, but instead a natural peer group that Skylanders fall in to based on how well, objectively, each one competes as they all battle one another. - I wish I could think of a better way of conveying that distinction, but I feel at a loss for words to describe it. I'd appreciate another person's input there. smilie


Thank you everyone for continuing to support this thread, and the analysis of PvP in Skylanders in general. I should let everyone know that starting today I once again won't be able to posting in this thread for a little while, - this time for about one-and-a-half weeks as I go on holiday to the USA. Do keep analysing and posting in the meantime though and I'll do my best to respond to all your information when I get back! Have a happy new year!
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Arc of Archives Yellow Sparx Gems: 1486
#229 Posted: 02:14:20 01/01/2014
[note: I really wanted to write more but since you're online Naut I decided to post this now, in case you logged off, and I'll try to elaborate a bit more via editing... Edit: never mind! Lol enjoy your break though.]

I just played with S2 Floral Defender Zook today... Do I have a lot to say about him? To be honest, not really. Zook is blessed with one of the better porting jobs in this game and seems to function about as well as he did in Giants.

Standard attack is basically useless, it's totally outclassed by mortars. The only thing it does that mortars don't is to let you move while firing but that's not useful because it just fires straight. There's no point to using this attack, just keep spamming mortars instead.

Secondary attack is good. Pulling up foliage right in front of you is handy if your opponent gets close and you just need to block them off. You can also use it to help deter them, and set up an oppurtunity to run away. This is also useful because it means you can have extra cacti on the field, you can only have 8 from the Mortars up at one time- but you can set up two foliage walls at the same time as the Mortar cacti.

And Mortars are Zook's standout move. They just set everything up for him. They deal decent damage on their own too, 50 damage a Mortar is nothing to sneeze at with their rate of fire. It really, really hurts. They also fire faster with his Wow Pow, and they're pretty darn easy to aim. And they set up cacti for you which means your opponent can go anywhere and they'll still get hurt by them, unless they're using a darn fast 'lander. It's tricky avoiding these cacti and if you decide to go right up to Zook he still hurts you with them.

Though at the same time if your Skylander is good enough and you have decent skill then you certainly can beat him. Bleh I'll just say it I can't think of any Skylander I've played that I think fit "A-Tier" better.

Honestly, there's not a lot to say about S2 FD Zook besides that he's as good as he was in Giants. 'Naut, I highly suggest that you keep him in the A-Tier for now and I would even go so far as to say he is what A-Tier should be standardised by(...for now).

We need a character we can set as a "standard" for the tier for now and build up from that, see what can stand up to it and what can't. It's just too hard to do otherwise. And I think Zook is honestly the perfect candidate. What Zook is really good at is keeping opponents away from him. And he can whittle down your HP while he's doing this. He's simply very, very good at it, he's not too complex to use and is able to fight a lot of different opponents with pretty even chances, and I think that's what constitutes an A-Tier. I've decided to set him as my own standard for A-Tier, because I really think he will be A-Tier, so I can think about what "A-Tier" might be more easily and help a bit more with all of this rearranging.

I'm also starting to think I won't bother with many new characters until that's done, because I don't see it working on such a big project, it would just cause a mess. There are people left right and center suggesting "[new character] should be A-Tier because they're strong" and we just can't sort through all that. Guys, harsh as I may sound, we don't need input on new characters right now because it means we just have to sort more and instead we really need input on old characters [especially from A-Tier] so that we have a better idea of the power-standard for each tier in SF.

P.S. excuse the clumsy writing, and forgive me if I'm jumping the gun and overestimating how good Zook is(I think I'm just a bit stunned that they didn't botch him like so many other of the old 'landers...), I haven't had too much rest today. I think he might actually end up being one of the least impressive A-Tiers or the god of B-Tier when we factor in new Skylanders, as his cacti aren't the greatest damage dealers- but still pretty good- so perhaps meleeists could beat him, and there's a lot more "bulk" in all the characters compared to prior games. But we just need something to start with, and of course we can always change that later. I still think Zook is very solid overall and I'm going to consider him when I think about "A-Tier in SF" now.
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 02:48:23 01/01/2014 by Arc of Archives
Zian Green Sparx Gems: 171
#230 Posted: 07:37:08 01/01/2014
Oh gosh,imagine the top half of rattle shake and the bottom half of night shift
wrecknroll Yellow Sparx Gems: 1044
#231 Posted: 11:23:45 01/01/2014
Wrecking. Ball s 2 Ultimate Spinner
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My collection! http://imgur.com/gallery/G7lsX
assassinelf Yellow Sparx Gems: 1168
#232 Posted: 11:28:14 01/01/2014
There isn't really a definitive pvp tier list.
It all boils down to the skill of the player.
And how good they are with that character.
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Rickinelf: I ship it
Check out Survivor! Season 10! In forum games! Yay!
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EgoNaut Yellow Sparx Gems: 1730
#233 Posted: 13:42:05 01/01/2014 | Topic Creator
It turns out I have a little time this morning before we set off, so I thought I'd pop in to say hello.

Thank you for your information on Zook, Arc of Archives.
I support your notion that it would be useful to find a yardstick for the A Tier, but Zook may not be that character. - I've been thinking there's a general trend that the new Skylanders are very strong compared to some of the old ones, so my personal hunch is that the A Tier yardstick character is more likely to be one of the new skylanders, such as a non-S Tier Swaplander. However, seeing as we'll be only considering old Skylanders as we re-arrange the A-Tier at first, we'd be better off pinpointing a well-ported old Skylander that competes with a large ammount of the new Skylanders.

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'll repeat one more time that we need to concentrate on re-arranging the old Skylanders before we start thinking about the new Skylanders. - That doesn't mean to say I'll be rejecting any new information given about new Skylanders because any new information about them is always welcome, - it just means that we can't actually place the new Skylanders in the tier list for a while until we've re-arranged the old Skylanders first.


@assassinelf: Please refer to the disclaimer I've put in the opening post of this thread:
Quote:
Of course, these tier lists, as with any tier list for any game, are only meant to be taken as guidelines for the purely objective ability of each Skylander in an imaginary situation where the two opponents are of equal skill. In a real life situation, different people have different skills, strategies and play styles, so you should always remember that it’s these factors that ultimately decide the effectiveness of each Skylander you use. You should go by your personal play styles and use the Skylanders you like instead of going by everything on these tier lists!
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S1: smiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmilie
S2: smiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmilie
S3: smiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmilie
Zian Green Sparx Gems: 171
#234 Posted: 18:35:30 01/01/2014
Like smogon my idea is to have the skylanders that are better than b tier but just don't make a tier standards in a middle tier such as possibly wrecking ball if he can't make it into a tier with that one move that does huge damage won't make s or a tier
sustainablspyro Yellow Sparx Gems: 1518
#235 Posted: 18:51:28 01/01/2014
smilie, all paths and types, is not nearly as strong as he was. He's outclassed by melees like smilie, smilie, and smilie, as they come up to him as he belly slams or punches. Long ranges like smilie and smilie stay away and beat him while taking little damage. More research is needed for tiering, but these strategies beat an experienced smilie user at a higher level than my characters, and so he should be moved down. Also, S2 blitz smilie is in C tier whereas S1 blitz smilie is in B tier. Why?
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Bye everyone. After the hack thing, I'm leaving.
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 19:20:38 01/01/2014 by sustainablspyro
fortune Blue Sparx Gems: 639
#236 Posted: 21:28:44 01/01/2014
Quote: sustainablspyro
smilie, all paths and types, is not nearly as strong as he was. He's outclassed by melees like smilie, smilie, and smilie, as they come up to him as he belly slams or punches. Long ranges like smilie and smilie stay away and beat him while taking little damage. More research is needed for tiering, but these strategies beat an experienced smilie user at a higher level than my characters, and so he should be moved down. Also, S2 blitz smilie is in C tier whereas S1 blitz smilie is in B tier. Why?



I agree that terrafin seems weaker, especially the new knockout version which loses its ability to chain bellyflops to stay safe underground. I've found that Scorp steps into the spot that terrafin used to fill. He's a highly mobile earth attacker.

Scorp on the stinger path has proven very strong using the sting attack and then using the roll to knock down opponents (they continue to take poison damage). I'd recommend scorp for A tier.
Dragon Master58 Yellow Sparx Gems: 1366
#237 Posted: 15:04:57 02/01/2014
Quote: sustainablspyro
smilie, all paths and types, is not nearly as strong as he was. He's outclassed by melees like smilie, smilie, and smilie, as they come up to him as he belly slams or punches. Long ranges like smilie and smilie stay away and beat him while taking little damage. More research is needed for tiering, but these strategies beat an experienced smilie user at a higher level than my characters, and so he should be moved down. Also, S2 blitz smilie is in C tier whereas S1 blitz smilie is in B tier. Why?


I believe this was due to a glitch in giants that would cause the stun upgrade to not have any effect after the wow pow has been purchased. Not sure if this glitch is still present in swap force though
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smiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmilie - want these swappers the most
I own all figures from first 2 games except S2 Drobot; release him in the UK, Activision!!
GhostRoaster24 Blue Sparx Gems: 942
#238 Posted: 15:22:31 03/01/2014
Quote: EgoNaut
It turns out I have a little time this morning before we set off, so I thought I'd pop in to say hello.

Thank you for your information on Zook, Arc of Archives.
I support your notion that it would be useful to find a yardstick for the A Tier, but Zook may not be that character. - I've been thinking there's a general trend that the new Skylanders are very strong compared to some of the old ones, so my personal hunch is that the A Tier yardstick character is more likely to be one of the new skylanders, such as a non-S Tier Swaplander. However, seeing as we'll be only considering old Skylanders as we re-arrange the A-Tier at first, we'd be better off pinpointing a well-ported old Skylander that competes with a large ammount of the new Skylanders.

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'll repeat one more time that we need to concentrate on re-arranging the old Skylanders before we start thinking about the new Skylanders. - That doesn't mean to say I'll be rejecting any new information given about new Skylanders because any new information about them is always welcome, - it just means that we can't actually place the new Skylanders in the tier list for a while until we've re-arranged the old Skylanders first.


@assassinelf: Please refer to the disclaimer I've put in the opening post of this thread:
Quote:
Of course, these tier lists, as with any tier list for any game, are only meant to be taken as guidelines for the purely objective ability of each Skylander in an imaginary situation where the two opponents are of equal skill. In a real life situation, different people have different skills, strategies and play styles, so you should always remember that it’s these factors that ultimately decide the effectiveness of each Skylander you use. You should go by your personal play styles and use the Skylanders you like instead of going by everything on these tier lists!



I will definitely try out some of the old Skylanders to see if their powers/abilities still work like they do in Giants/SSA.

However, today I tried out (my new) Phantom Cynder, and I am utterly shocked. They revamped Cynder in Swap Force. Before any of her upgrades, her lightning did 30 damage per tick, three ticks. That's 90 damage in just 3 seconds! (After typing that sentence I realized that 90 damage wasn't that amazing now, so just disregard that boo boo. smilie ) After her lightning upgrade her lightning does even more damage per tick, with a greater area and a longer duration, which makes it a lot easier to hit the opponent. There could also be some sort of strategy where you shadow dash near the opponent, get them caught in your ghosts and spam lightning, which does damage and makes your ghosts explode. I dunno, something like that. smilie

So long story short, Cynder is definitely a lot better in Swap Force.

EDIT: I just recently tried Cosmic Reflector Star Strike, and I will say that she is very good. However, I do not think that she is overpowered, or broken, for a couple reasons:

1)She is slow. She's not overly slow, but she doesn't have any dash moves (or any move for that matter) to speed her up, which results in not being quick enough to get away from certain melees such as Stealth Elf and Chop Chop. She'll be stuck using her spin to try and ward them off, which doesn't do much damage on its own, and has a short delay between each spin. Plus, while trying to ward off her attacker, she'll probably end up forgetting about that star she was supposed to be reflecting, which brings me to my next point.

2) She has to reflect her star to do any considerable damage. A single star shot at the enemies only does 25-35 damage, which with increased health due to higher level caps, isn't much. After 3-4 reflections, she starts to dish out some damage, but before then, it's just a matter of being able to reflect her stars a number of times to raise its damage.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love Star Strike's concept, figure, and gameplay, but I just don't think she's broken, she's just a very, very solid Skylander.
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Tumblr: hunter-alex
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 16:50:04 04/01/2014 by GhostRoaster24
sustainablspyro Yellow Sparx Gems: 1518
#239 Posted: 16:59:20 04/01/2014
More Stuff: smilie/Harpooner is buffed; he can climb and use his harpoons, beating smilie/Captain Crustacean, smilie/Ice Lancer, smilie/Yeti Ice Sculptor, and S2 smilie/Blizzard Brawler
I know Newlander Stuff isn't needed, but smilie/Sun Forger beat smilie/Magic Reflector and S2 smilie/Blademaster by using a black hole to pull them in and then whipping.

EDIT: @ghostroaster24: I think that smilie should remain in S tier. While your point about the dash isn't untrue, she can spam the stars nearby, doing significant damage, use the teleporters, or the Cosmic Rain against melees. I haven't tested against melees well, but I've used her to beat fast, close up enemies. She has, at 390 health, beat 704 health S3 smilie and 820 health smilie used by experienced players. She is broken and maybe the definiton of S tier.
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Bye everyone. After the hack thing, I'm leaving.
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 18:27:30 04/01/2014 by sustainablspyro
scratchking22 Blue Sparx Gems: 725
#240 Posted: 18:59:33 04/01/2014
I know you guys are working on older characters, but I have some noteworthy contributions for Roller Brawl.
smilie/Shadow Skater beat smilie/Bee Keeper, smilie/Sting, smilie (on both paths), and smilie/Captain Crustacean.
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~ Clinton/Kaine 2016 ~
Mrmorrises Emerald Sparx Gems: 4958
#241 Posted: 19:08:07 04/01/2014
I have to say, Eye Brawl is still worthy of S tier. His lasers, while a bit slower than in Hiants, can travel a much greater range, and the eye ball is still very mobile, making it easy to get to your target and continuously zap them with lasers. He is easily capable of beating the greatly nerfed A tier characters, like Tree rex, and still does well against our current S tier.
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"Well, the gate swung open and a fig newton entered."
GhostRoaster24 Blue Sparx Gems: 942
#242 Posted: 20:36:51 04/01/2014
I definitely agree with the above post. Eye-Brawl is definitely still a great Skylander.
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Tumblr: hunter-alex
azz01 Gold Sparx Gems: 2849
#243 Posted: 20:54:39 04/01/2014
I agree that Grilla Drilla with the Double Punches and Banana Turrets(Don't know path names) should be at least B or A tier.If he sets up two turrets and gets his double punches set up against an all melee character he can rack up a good amount of damage.One disadvantage is the far ranged characters could very easily take him out if this strategy is used but there is a counter.Setting up the two turrets and calling your monkeys to do some small damage then getting up close to do some drill punch damage.

The far ranged strat is flawed I know but I still think with that he should be at least B tier.
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Go into Orbit, stan LOOΠΔ!
Stream favOriTe
samuraituretsky Yellow Sparx Gems: 1430
#244 Posted: 00:23:42 05/01/2014
Quote: scratchking22
I know you guys are working on older characters, but I have some noteworthy contributions for Roller Brawl.
smilie/Shadow Skater beat smilie/Bee Keeper, smilie/Sting, smilie (on both paths), and smilie/Captain Crustacean.


Nice to hear more confirmation of what I felt would be the case. Not enough people playing Roller Brawl and even fewer playing her like they should, imo. Are you using mostly / all Bullrush spam? I think Shadow Skater Roller Brawl using Bullrush spam has to be either A or S. I personally don't see how Star Strike could be S tier. Maybe it's my personal playstyle, but Star Strike feels more like B tier to me personally.

As for the tier list... I see why you guys want to re-rank all the older guys, but don't you think that's sort of hindering progress for completion of the list? Most the old ones are changed so much that the old tier list applies only loosely. Fewer people are playing the old characters right now. It might go faster to start a new tier list with the new characters and then add in the old characters to the new list over time.
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smilie smilie smilie smilie
sustainablspyro Yellow Sparx Gems: 1518
#245 Posted: 01:37:35 05/01/2014
^ Could you explain the smilie thing?
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Bye everyone. After the hack thing, I'm leaving.
samuraituretsky Yellow Sparx Gems: 1430
#246 Posted: 02:05:45 05/01/2014
Quote: sustainablspyro
^ Could you explain the smilie thing?


She just doesn't feel all that strong to me. I have her on Cosmic Reflector. The spin reflect would be nice against ranged, but it seems to me that she'd get wrecked by decent melee. She's super slow. The star reflect attack is powerful, but it requires timing and focus on that timing and positioning. I just don't see how she could be considered anywhere close to broken powerful which is what I thought the S tier was meant to be. Maybe I haven't played her enough. I wanted to like her but I'm so much more successful with ~20-30 other characters. Maybe she's just terrible for my playstyle. I don't know.
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smilie smilie smilie smilie
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 02:06:44 05/01/2014 by samuraituretsky
samuraituretsky Yellow Sparx Gems: 1430
#247 Posted: 02:14:13 05/01/2014
Night Shift is another one of my favorites. I have him on Proper Vampire top and Warping Vortexes bottom. I see you only have the Underbat swap combos ranked. My strategy with him is pretty much just Teleport > Bite > Teleport > Bite etc.. Warping Vortexes works pretty well with this style. It feels super powerful to me. Needs more testing.
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smilie smilie smilie smilie
sustainablspyro Yellow Sparx Gems: 1518
#248 Posted: 02:30:54 05/01/2014
^
^I don't know about that. She managed to beat smilie, a melee. The star kept bouncing, and it was sure to hit the opponent. A test against smilie would help determine power.
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Bye everyone. After the hack thing, I'm leaving.
samuraituretsky Yellow Sparx Gems: 1430
#249 Posted: 02:44:13 05/01/2014
That surprises me. I doubt the Night Shift player was using a good strategy. Oh well. I agree to disagree.
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smilie smilie smilie smilie
Zian Green Sparx Gems: 171
#250 Posted: 05:07:19 05/01/2014
Star strike is beyond s tier I have beaten more experienced and older players than me with her and they used s and a tiers like rattle shake,underbat night shift,roller brawl,hex,s2 terrafin,stealth elf,bumble blast,the giants chop chop undead defender,slam bam,and even voodood and bash


Also I feel the new characters should be in a separate tier list
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