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darkSpyro - Spyro and Skylanders Forum > Site Help and Suggestions > An Open Letter to dark52 and the rest of the darkSpyro community.
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An Open Letter to dark52 and the rest of the darkSpyro community. [STICKY]
pankakesparx456 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6864
#1 Posted: 22:05:36 04/04/2019 | Topic Creator
Hey all. I’m sure most of you have been noticing some serious **** that has been going down in the dS community recently, mostly in the off-topic board. And I’m just as frustrated with things that have been happening as most of you guys are.

So I’m making this topic to address it. I don’t know if this will get any traffic or reception or if anyone will care that much enough to really respond, but this is something that has really been bugging me a lot recently, and I know it has bugged many people on dS for years now.

And if you aren’t aware, I’m talking about the issues surrounding moderation and administration on darkSpyro for a long time now. Except recently, I think the issues have reached a point now where we all have to publicly address it, express our open and transparent thoughts and/or frustrations with things as of recently. Not just a handful of users saying “we need to have this” every now and then and nothing comes out of it: I mean we need to have a serious discussion about the problems surrounding darkSpyro and we need to do it as open and as honest as possible.

So I’m going to be blunt right out of the gate and say I believe a lot of this has to do with how the website is administrated. So yes, I’m saying this not about the whole site, but to dark52 directly. Too often, we deal with users that have caused people problems multiple times on multiple occasions, sometimes to the point where other users are leaving the site, or worse. And it’s not right that we as a community have to constantly feel like our admin doesn’t really care about the problems or act on them accordingly.

If you want specific examples, I suppose I can start with MugoUrth. For years now he had been causing problems for other users by shoving his opinions down people’s throats, throwing temper tantrums at people, constantly disrupting conversations to say how “wrong” people were, you name it. Yes, he’s finally banned because of what happened between the two of us, but this is only after years of Mugo doing the same thing over and over again and never getting permanently reprimanded for it. He told me to “choke on glass,” but I’m sure he has said some pretty garbage and threatening stuff to other people here over the years.

Another big example is terrafin. For months now, terrafin had been weaponizing her personal problems towards other users. More often than not, she would bait people into feeling bad for her, get snappy with users trying to help her even after they reached out, and in some instances she directly blamed other users here for wanting to commit suicide. I noticed that she was banned today(Although I don’t know if what had been happening with her behind the scenes had anything to do with it), but the damage she’s caused other users here has already been done. I won’t cite specific people, but terrafin said some pretty deplorable **** to other users and it has caused them more problems than just wanting to leave darkSpyro. I can tell you from personal experience that kind of **** messes people up. It causes them worse problems with depression, anxiety, and even PTSD in some cases.

And now we find ourselves in the exact same situation with Buchi. He’s been suspended over the past few weeks because he said he wants to shoot other users because “Murder is fun,” deplorably insulted most everyone here in an honest thoughts topic, and now he’s made rape and necrophilia jokes. On a Spyro the Dragon forum. And he hasn’t been banned yet. Why?

This leaks into moderation as well. There aren’t many active mods left on the website. The same few that have stuck around have done a fantastic job picking up the slack, but they can only do so much when all they can do at the most is issue 48 hour suspensions.

And this isn’t even CONSIDERING everything else that has happened in the past on dS that I’m sure many older users vividly remember.

I’m saying this because(and I’m definitely saying this directly to you, dark52) it just feels like there’s no care left for the website at all. Now I can understand that Spyro had been pretty defunct until Reignited, and Skylanders is essentially over, so not much traffic comes through the website like it used to. But these aren’t the only reasons people stick around here. We stay here and we still talk and have these discussions because we’re a community. Spyro and/or Skylanders is the thing that links us together. Over the past year, I’ve been more involved here than I ever have been, and I’ve made some of the closest friends I’ve ever had on the internet. I would have never known the likes of Bolt, HeyItsHotDog, ToyNerd, paris, Iceclaw, Pixil, Bifrost, Crash10, you name it, had it not been for darkSpyro.

To be perfectly blunt and transparent, it comes off as selfish when a community is as tight-knit as we are feel like we have to take matters into our own hands in order for something to get resolved, IF it even gets resolved. I shouldn’t have had to lash out at Mugo or terrafin for their behavior. They should’ve been banned for their behavior a long time ago. We shouldn’t need to adopt a mob mentality just to get Buchi to be punished for his actions here. No one is ever going to learn and then darkSpyro is eventually going to come crashing down.

Now, maybe the truth is that you don’t care about darkSpyro anymore. And you know what? I'll be the first to say that’s perfectly okay. Keeping this much interest in Spyro and Skylanders and running a site around it I can imagine is exhausting enough, let alone having interest in the franchises at all anymore.

But if that IS the case, then we need to have a conversation about making sure darkSpyro lives on for the people that are still passionate about it. For the users that still conversate all the time. For the users that express constant frustration about the state of things. For the users still doing their damnedest to keep this place moderated.

I honestly think it’s time to adjust administrator and moderator roles on darkSpyro. We need to have global mods that can handle everything on ds at all times. We need at least one or two more administrators that can help run the website itself, enhance it, and ban users. We need to have new moderators in place. And there needs to be better tools at the moderators’ disposal to deal with situations like the ones above.

I realize too that I haven’t even come close to mentioning everything else that is wrong with darkSpyro and needs addressing. That’s where this topic comes in.

I made this not just so I can express my problems and frustrations openly and honestly: I want you guys to share similar experiences and sentiments. Maybe this topic doesn’t really go anywhere and nothing gets changed. But I felt I need to at least try. I’ve been part of this community for close to 9 years. It’s been a pretty integral part of my life. Not because of Spyro or Skylanders, but because it has been my go-to outlet to conversate with people online and make friends with people across the world. And if people are willing to stay here even after all the problems we’ve endured, I’m sure plenty of users here can relate and agree to that.

Change for darkSpyro has long been overdue. It's time things start changing for the better.
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Cool cool.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 22:54:39 04/04/2019 by pankakesparx456
parisruelz12 Hunter Gems: 6916
#2 Posted: 22:32:09 04/04/2019
Continually suspending people over and over again is not going to solve our problems, what I feel that that the moderators need is more suspending power, universal mods and more communication from our admin himself.

Unfortunately, and I do mean this in the best way that I can, but my opinion of the current administration is very low. When Zapnorris was suspended for the fourth time last year, I brought it up to you, dark, and you essentially said to me “what do you want me to do about it.” Zap’s behavior, up to that point had been repeated over and over again. While it has not been repeated in a few months. However, I’m biding my time for when it does. What will you do then, dark? Suspend him for a fifth? A tenth? I asked you this today in the Hunter Forum and you have yet to respond to me. You, as the admin, need to put your down and stop toxic behavior from happening.

Now, on to the Nroc-Nuka thing. Several people, not just staff, but regular users as well have approached you about it. If you still don’t know what I’m talking about: essentially your moderator Nroc -Nuka was harassing by the name of Sess. I told him to knock it off and act like a mod, he then went and put my post in the background of his avatar, and to this day it is still there. You, it seems, have done nothing about it.

Your general attitude about this place comes off as one that is rather uncaring. I just want things to get better here.

In the words of my favorite YouTuber GradeAUnderA, “All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing, and to let that **** happen.” Don’t let that **** happen, dark. Let’s work together to make this place great again.
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looks like ive got some things to do...in hd
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 22:49:18 04/04/2019 by parisruelz12
Bifrost Platinum Sparx Gems: 6493
#3 Posted: 22:38:54 04/04/2019
Let's not forget that Aura left because Dark just turned a blind eye to actually moderating the damn site, but not once. Not just twice. Not THREE TIMES. OVER A DOXXING ATTEMPT. She's easily as good, if not better than Dark on the Spyro side of the franchise, at gathering information on the franchise, and he let her get constantly stalked and harassed for all to see and just gave out pats in the head when people actually called her a fat cop just because she wanted some order in the Skylanders section.

Guess what? She actively tells everyone in both fandoms to stay far away from this site whenever she can. And they agree on twitter and other places because proof is out here for everyone to see. Why do we have to settle for being known as toxic because of one admin, when there are so many mods who actually WANT to do their jobs?

And OP is right. It's okay if you don't want to care anymore. But I'm sure there might be people who are more than willing to pick up the slack on the forum side. We don't have to just watch the community die because only one person has the power to ban. Hell, the Skylanders Wiki used to have only one admin - he handed it over to me and Aura(and Nightmoon on the coding side) and there's nothing better than not having to stress over problem users because there's someone else who can help while I'm not at the PC.

We need more active mods. We need global mods with the ability to permaban. And if we can't global mods, then PLEASE. We NEED to have more people with the Spyro the Dragon role. Because you are doing far from fine alone.
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I do art!
IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, IT'S TOO LATE
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 22:41:25 04/04/2019 by Bifrost
Metallo Emerald Sparx Gems: 4556
#4 Posted: 22:55:08 04/04/2019
Quote: parisruelz12
When Zapnorris was suspended for the fourth time last year, I brought it up to you, dark, and you essentially said to me “what do you want me to do about it.” .



Jesus.

I know you're probably not going to read this because I'm sure you have better things to do, but Dark, this is hilariously bad.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 23:12:46 04/04/2019 by Metallo
Spyroconvexity Platinum Sparx Gems: 5691
#5 Posted: 22:59:01 04/04/2019
I would agree. There needs to be change. Perhaps at least by seeing which mods are active and perhaps opening mod positions again.

Edit: I’ve been on nearly everyday sense I joined and seen some stuff that needs to be taken care of but sometimes it sits for months or never gets taken care of. It just makes the site look bad if there are users who cause trouble never get banned or just a simple slap on the wrist. Sometimes makes me wanna leave the site but I don’t let those get me down and all I can do as a member of DS is report them.
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SC
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 23:15:40 04/04/2019 by Spyroconvexity
Trix Master 100 Platinum Sparx Gems: 5778
#6 Posted: 23:03:48 04/04/2019
Dark, I have worked with you for years. Obviously of course when I am typing, you probably know I have amount of issues wanting to be brought up.

For me at least, it would certainly the communication lacking in mods and you the admin. I have given so many ways to where we can communicate effectively on an issue, skype and discord. Not only have a few moderators picked those up, but directly afterwards they went radio silent. Granted everyone has a home life that keeps them busy and that's understandable, but what I don't get seeing you pop up everyday and not go "Perhaps I need to demod some of my choices as they never seem to appear". If memory serves on the application you asked how often said user comes onto the site. My benefit of a doubt is maybe they had so much time then since we're at years later, but maybe you should demod those that haven't been active in literal months. At that point it's like a worker never stating they were not gonna show up to work, there fore they should lose their jobs. Granted it's volunteer jobs, but having my share of other volunteer jobs, you would actually lose that job with negative behavior (Like Nroc-Nuika) or inactivity. You really can't just keep them around that slot when a lot of more active and willing users are ready to clean up their messes they left behind.

This is not to mention I'm literally on my Fandom island all a lone.

Another I have to add is not only have you let some users stay on the site that are unhealthy, but also seems to only be around people to get more info and belittle users. I'm of course referring to the user Uncle Bob. Who has insulted and belittled your team intentionally to get his way in the past. When you finally stepped in you gave him a long suspension, he still talked back like a misbehaving child. Granted he's been inactive, but seeing him get away with things that others would be shunned to the corners of the land for, that is absurd. Not to mention he continued to vague post about the user afterwards for when they left and he followed them off site (creepy af btw).

I get you yourself are probably in a mentally bad spot idk, but you literally cannot let users get away with bad behavior because mental illnesses and such. I have Asperger's and you gave me a slap on the wrist as soon as I cursed out a user. That was fair, I should've behaved a lot better and remained in my lane.

Gonna say this right now:

  • We're not registered psychiatrists or therapists, we can't really help these users besides telling them to go get help or be an ear.
  • Your mods range from 16-25 years old (this is a guesstimate of age range btw). We're still trying figure what to do with ourselves.
  • You're losing more users and traffic by having misbehaving/not listening/unstable users on here. As well as more so knowing the head count for active mods.
  • You'll stop losing users and not be stressed if you have active communication with the userbase.
  • Also you will not be losing a thing by demodding inactive mods.

Deepest respects for whatever is going down with you personally Dark, but there's literally only so much the mods can handle. Especially when it's usually a group of 4 mods and a fair portion of them being in their early 20's.
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乇乂ㄒ尺卂 ㄒ卄丨匚匚

Avatar from Empoh
JCW555 Hunter Gems: 5569
#7 Posted: 23:14:57 04/04/2019
I guess my only contribution to this is "help me to help you". Pancake, Trix, Bifrost and Paris all equally summed up my thoughts perfectly. I can't continue dolling out 48 hour suspensions and it not making a difference anymore. I just can't.
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"What will you say, what will you say, what will you say when God turns away"
Motörhead - When The Sky Comes Looking For You - Bad Magic (2015)
Edited 3 times - Last edited at 23:18:20 04/04/2019 by JCW555
Spyroconvexity Platinum Sparx Gems: 5691
#8 Posted: 23:17:09 04/04/2019
Quote: JCW555
I guess my only contribution to this is "help me to help you". Pancake, Trix, and Paris all equally sum up my thoughts perfectly. I can't continue dolling out 48 hour suspensions and it not making a difference anymore. I just can't.



I agree with you. Let us help you Dark.
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SC
emeraldzoroark Gold Sparx Gems: 2486
#9 Posted: 23:33:01 04/04/2019
I can’t say much without repeating what others have said, but I will say this; We’ve been discussing this on Discord, and it feels like the users are more united than ever talking about this. Make a change, nearly any change, and the forum will benefit. What good is the owner of a social website of he doesn’t listen to the people who make the website social in the first place?
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This avatar will be a reminder of my ultimate goal.
Even if I can’t bring it to Gen 8.
somePerson Emerald Sparx Gems: 4912
#10 Posted: 23:45:55 04/04/2019
Honestly, there's a weird mix of users being overly aggressive and an admin being passive. While making rape and necrophilia jokes were never stated to be against the rules it is quite taboo to make them considering the demographic of this site. While yes I do agree to make constant crude humor jokes can be annoying, the constant flaming of other users for their "toxic" behavior is unnecessary and making the site worse. The darkspyro way of confronting users is quite silly as making vague posts in personal thoughts does nothing but cause unnecessary drama. Another way users confront others is by harassing them in forum posts through ways of subtle jabs or straight up attacking them and calling them names and the such. This behavior of trying to make the site better is honestly quite silly and does nothing for the long run.

My main theory as to why this toxic behavior exists on this site is because of the admin not having a presence on the site. The users of darkspyro seem to have this shared mentality of "this is good and this is not" to the point of making up rules to fit in with their personal beliefs. There also seems to be a weird mob mentality of simply attacking users for doing "this" or "that" and having a differing opinion may lead to certain individuals calling out on you for having an opinion. To be quite honest with all of you folks, a majority of the users on this site show "toxic" behavior that is simply covered by the shared beliefs of other users.

As a user with a bit of a background of controversy (fake death, toxicity, etc) I started to notice that if I were to say something that didn't fit in with the similarly shared beliefs of the forum I would get called out on and be called names. For example, me simply stating
Quote: somePerson
I still think being trans is a trend with kids struggling with identity

caused quite a small uproar of what is essentially saying "your opinion is wrong" on a topic named "unpopular opinions".

Another recent example of bitter behavior would be certain users attacking me for an act I did years ago.This topic for example as quite silly as I was asked to be banned and being accused of illegal activities for an act I did when I 13 years old. Behavior from these two recent events are quite unnecessary and did nothing but lower my popularity.

Now I know I'm just sugar picking recent examples that included me but it's still inexcusable to show this type of behavior. Users named already in this topic seem to be the hot topic at the moment as they simply are making users feel uncomfortable or annoyed. The actions of terrafin are quite horrific and do not belong on this site but the acts of other users are easily avoidable and feed off of attention. Simply reporting the post and not replying to them will cause nothing but more similar inappropriate posts.

An example of mob mentality and overall toxic behavior would be the windumup situation back in 2013. As somebody who participated in the events of the drama, I simply regret everything I said during those times and wish nothing more but fortune for KrystaLBX. The constant threads harassing the user is considered cyberbullying and I'm surprised how I didn't get in trouble for making rude posts. A similar event is happening right now as users are ganging on those who are less popular and attacking to silly posts they make.

I hope dark52 has a bigger role on this site in the future to help prevent this hivemind of toxicity that we all participate in but it seems like things will never change. A set of rules and restrictions to follow instead of unofficial taboos sharded by users is necessary as the rules page gets outdated every other week.

Global mods would be cool too.
If you disagree this is an ironic post I guess
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 00:03:50 05/04/2019 by somePerson
Crash10 Gold Sparx Gems: 2993
#11 Posted: 23:53:52 04/04/2019
As Aquaris said, the problem is not you being an admin, the problem is that you're the only one and you are barely here. Bring in more people to your position, that's it, it would make a big difference. I'm sure a lot of users are more than capable and happy to accept the position, some from this topic itself. We understand if you don't care anymore, but if you really don't, just let someone else do your job.
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Play time's over!
Sesshomaru75 Platinum Sparx [online] Gems: 5755
#12 Posted: 00:04:45 05/04/2019
Honestly, all I really want to see is the following:

  • For any moderators that have been inactive for an extended period of time (The exact amount of time that has to have passed would be up to Dark, obviously) to be retired/demodded.
  • (Perhaps with the possibility to reclaim their position if they're to come back and be active on a consistent, regular basis again)
  • For another moderator application to be opened (Or some other, alternative form of a selection process to be initiated) due to the ever-decreasing amount of active moderators
  • For existing moderators (And maybe hypothetical new ones, at least after a certain period of time - a "grace" period, if you will) to have more and better tools at their disposal for dealing with users who're out of hand.
  • (Such as the ability to suspend people for longer and/or having a couple global moderators)

I'm not asking for Dark to take more time out of his daily personal life and routine, I'm not asking for others to become promoted to administrators, and I'm not even asking for moderators to have the ability to ban people outright.

In my mind, asking for the former-most is a bit selfish I feel, especially without knowing Dark's life or what he does on a daily basis. On the other hand, the other two not only feel like asking for way too much, but also seem to be a bit of an extreme.
(Especially the latter, I feel, though I still understand why some are asking for such a thing even if I don't personally agree with it)

Personally, I don't see how any of the above things that I've requested are asking for too much.
If anything, doing at least one or two of the above will not only make it an easier and more enjoyable site experience for the userbase and the site's moderators, but for Dark himself as well.

Regardless, in the end I'm not going to tell Dark how to do his job or run his own website, nor do I want to pry into his personal life or be disrespectful to him as both a person and an administrator.
That said, however, it is my hope that some of what's being said in this topic (Be it by me or someone else) is taken at least into consideration more than anything. I certainly don't think that there's anything to lose here for anybody either way.
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Killing slow is the way I conquer
Until you know the meaning of suffer
Edited 9 times - Last edited at 00:39:50 05/04/2019 by Sesshomaru75
HIR Diamond Sparx Gems: 8506
#13 Posted: 00:26:04 05/04/2019
So, naturally, I don't really know what's changed since I chose to step down to deal with my conditions... but it doesn't sound like all that much has changed.

Keep in mind this was, like, 4-ish years ago and my memory's a bit fuzzy, but I do recall constantly having a feeling like the moderation team was not being given the necessary resources to do its job properly. And I can understand being concerned about mod powers being misused and all of that. But when I started, we only had very bare-bones features at our disposal. It took asking on the part of the mod team to even get things like the ability to issue a suspension up to 48 hours. And when we had a serious issue with people making alternate accounts and I asked for an IP checker or some means to try and better sniff out fake accounts, what I got was only a partial IP checker that didn't really help the situation much.

The end result was that I felt like, essentially, the mods were handicapped. That you had the ability to expand their abilities, but were choosing not to.

To add to that, somePerson already mentioned the rules being very vague and, well, they haven't changed all that much since I joined in late 2006, whereas the world (and the internet) has changed monumentally in that time frame. It wouldn't hurt to make some much-needed tweaks. I couldn't tell you what specifically to change. I'd have to think on that. But I think something needs to happen.

And, quite frankly, I do think you need global mods. At least a few dedicated folks who would have access to the same level of moderation abilities you do, save maybe for structural things like making new boards and sub-boards. This forum isn't gigantic — hell, it may even be a lot slower since Skylanders isn't as prominent as it was in the early 2010s — but I also don't think it's so tiny that one person can conceivably run everything, especially if they've got their own life to attend to.
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Congrats! You wasted five seconds reading this.
DragonCamo Platinum Sparx Gems: 5447
#14 Posted: 00:45:23 05/04/2019
I don't want to bring anything up that doesn't need to be brought up, but I would like to ask for the rules to be tweaked to be more specific and be more enforced.
It's sad the hypocrisy that still exists to this day, albeit not as bad as years before, that some users can act certain ways and have nothing done to them, but then another user do the same thing but be ganged up on and punished. I'm not talking about "oh they're told to change their behavior on our personal discord" that isn't punishment on the site. If they act up on darkSpyro, they should be reprimanded/punished ON THIS SITE. Not in a skype group, not in a discord server, not anywhere but here.

If you're going to punish bullying, ganging up on a user, and disrupting a topic/conversation in order to start a fight, then you need to be unbiased. I get it, we can't be fully unbiased. I will admit to have a few bias's against some users, but I feel like there could be some work done on being fair and stopping that behavior completely, not just "when soandso does it."
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Gay 4 GARcher
Vespi Yellow Sparx Gems: 1126
#15 Posted: 00:47:46 05/04/2019
Thank you for taking the time to make this post, pancake. I'm glad we have a lot of mod support too.

I don't exactly know what to say that hasn't already been said, but I suppose it would be beneficial to say my piece. I've been through a lot on this site. The blue sparx might not make me look like it, but I've been through a lot here. As I've grown through the years, so too has this forum. In a way, it feels like a part of me, and as much as I have wanted to shed it in the past, I can't. I've met lifelong friends and people I'm proud to know, like Sess, Iceclaw, Pixil, Carm, Samius, and my best friend TheFlyingSeal. I'm sure a lot of other users feel the same way. We're passionate about this site and want to see it thrive, but right now, it isn't really thriving. If anything, it feels at times like this site is atrophying, and like others have said, I feel like there are a lot of moving parts to this situation, with the job of admin being one of the most important factors.

Dark, we all here get that you have a life, and it is possible that the site has grown bigger than your initial expectations. All we're asking for is a little bit more tender love and care towards the site and the users that call it home.

For almost a year, I've been a moderator (and later an admin) of a Discord server with over four thousand active users. I've had to deal with my fair share of trolls, porn spammers, racists, and the like, just as I'm sure the mods here have to do on occasion. However, I wasn't able to deal with these kinds of things without the proper tools. Granted, I'm not an admin of a forum. I'm not even the mod of one. I have no idea how sites like these actually run myself, but based on what others are saying, I don't think I'm too far off. Time and again, it seems like mods are not properly equipped with situations like what has been going on recently in Stuff and Nonsense. I don't think anyone is asking for outright banning abilities, but at the very least, they should be able to deal extended bans, and actually act like moderators in terms of ability. I think it would be beneficial to cycle out the inactive ones as well, and have a periodic check to make sure all the admins that are active stay that way.

However, this does bring up a few ethical concerns. What defines too much power for a mod? What's considered fair and unfair punishment for varying offenses? In cases like Buchi's where his offenses were not specifically stated, how do mods proceed if the admin is offline? Should mods be able to make the same calls as an admin when the admin is offline?

Another concern I'd like to make is with the image of the site. When people like Buchi, Mugo, and terrafin are unchecked, how does it look to new users? Back in the day, if a parent saw the kinds of things that are posted like that, I know a fair number of people that would have never been allowed to visit dS again. However, this is the internet. Until stated otherwise by international law, this is a place of free speech, regardless of how horrid someone's opinions are. This is your forum though, Dark. You create the rules, others simply have to abide by them, while mods enforce them.

I don't want this to feel like we're all ganging up on you all of a sudden, this is simply issues that haven't been exactly a wide concern until now. As users and mods, this comes from a place of great care for our community and the people in it. I hope you take what we say into consideration.
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(◕︿◕✿)
I am Groot. (*I Guardians of the Galaxy 23:48*)
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 00:53:47 05/04/2019 by Vespi
Bifrost Platinum Sparx Gems: 6493
#16 Posted: 02:39:51 05/04/2019
I think having perma or long-tempbanning depending on the vote of several mods could work, that way there's less risk of a rogue mod just going in and causing mayhem at a quiet timezone. But it needs to be something that's not dependent on one person - the same way a mod could ban a lot of people they don't like and cause problems, Dark being the sole person that ever decides if a more severe ban even happens is also causing its fair share of issues.

Also, on the Discord, it really breeds behavior because of how the forum got. I try to have self control on gossiping because I can get pretty bad with it if I'm really frustrated, but it's because I could just ping a mod if I have an issue there, or ask someone who's a mod here to hear their opinion on something that's happening. In here, it doesn't matter if Paris agrees with me that X user is getting close to crossing a line, a mod can only ban for 24 hours during a bad argument and hope for the best, I just stop caring about posting on the thread. In there, it's a kick and if they want to get back, they have to actually talk to the mods or in the main channel to show they'll be more careful next time. Immediate action does make people gather there and try to say things they'd never say here, for better or worse.
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I do art!
IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, IT'S TOO LATE
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 02:50:15 05/04/2019 by Bifrost
Bolt Platinum Sparx Gems: 5243
#17 Posted: 04:32:16 05/04/2019
THANK.
I don't have much to say because everyone's said it all already. And also I don't have the time right now to say anything either ... i don't know if I will eventually, but I just want to be vocal about these issues as well.
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you don't know me. i break things
I draw stuff.
dark52 Spyro the Admin Gems: 10893
#18 Posted: 17:19:45 05/04/2019
Some good points have been made and I am willing to take them on board. Effective immediately I've made all of the mods global mods and given them the ability to give out longer suspensions.

And I would agree that I probably give too many chances for people to change before I'm ready to ban them so I will add in a way for mods to ban users themselves but that'll take a little longer to implement.
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If for any reason you're not completely satisfied, I hate you.
PSN: MindFang | Ring of Heroes: dark52 | Ring of Heroes Guild: darkSpyro
parisruelz12 Hunter Gems: 6916
#19 Posted: 17:25:17 05/04/2019
Are we going to have a new mod selection? A few of the mods here are inactive..
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looks like ive got some things to do...in hd
Trix Master 100 Platinum Sparx Gems: 5778
#20 Posted: 18:30:26 05/04/2019
Thank you Dark for hearing us out and taking some of the points made aboard.
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乇乂ㄒ尺卂 ㄒ卄丨匚匚

Avatar from Empoh
Bifrost Platinum Sparx Gems: 6493
#21 Posted: 18:31:40 05/04/2019
Thanks for listening, Dark. There's still things to be done but this is a huge step in the right direction; and hopefully the community will get better as a result.
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I do art!
IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, IT'S TOO LATE
HIR Diamond Sparx Gems: 8506
#22 Posted: 18:41:35 05/04/2019
Many thanks
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Congrats! You wasted five seconds reading this.
Vespi Yellow Sparx Gems: 1126
#23 Posted: 18:53:21 05/04/2019
Thank you for taking these issues to heart Dark!
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(◕︿◕✿)
I am Groot. (*I Guardians of the Galaxy 23:48*)
pankakesparx456 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6864
#24 Posted: 20:15:52 05/04/2019 | Topic Creator
Thank you for taking these criticisms to heart and listening, dark. There are still plenty of other concerns I'm sure many people have, but I hope this starts a great step in the right direction for darkSpyro.
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Cool cool.
TheFlyingSeal Platinum Sparx Gems: 5955
#25 Posted: 22:25:43 05/04/2019
I was late to this party, but I'm so happy that our voices are finally heard and that action is being taken. So instead of saying what so many other's have, I just wanna express my gratitude.

Pancake, thank you for making this topic and giving us a true chance for us to speak our minds. I think we've all been saying the same thing for years: on Discord, on Skype, and many times on this forum. But I feel like this topic and your original post gave a lot of users the opportunity to really write about all of the issues they have about the site, like one big masterpost.

Everyone, thank you for taking the time to write long, detailed posts about the problems on this site. To consider all of the things that have happened, to speak your mind, and ensure that it's said in a way that shows just how toxic this site has grown. It's moments like these that makes me proud to be a part of this community, and remind all of us on why we stay.

And a thank you to Dark52, who has finally listened, and has finally taken action.
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There's a light that shines, and it's power is mine. Though our body is weak and breakable, the spirit is indomitable!
parisruelz12 Hunter Gems: 6916
#26 Posted: 22:41:49 05/04/2019
Thanks dark, despite my previous post, I really do appreciate this.
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looks like ive got some things to do...in hd
Crash10 Gold Sparx Gems: 2993
#27 Posted: 02:03:37 06/04/2019
Thanks for hearing us out and taking action Dark, we really appreciate it. The site will only improve with those changes.
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Play time's over!
Gharlant Green Sparx Gems: 479
#28 Posted: 07:18:17 06/04/2019
Since I guess I'm considered part of the darkSpyro community, I hope it's okay for me to comment on a few things.

First, about Terrafin. Her ban was not the result of her breaking any site rules, she requested it. I am aware of the the particular behavior you are referencing, but I do not believe she did any of those things on this site (at least, not that I am aware of. I could be wrong and hopefully will be corrected on this if that's the case). If it is true that she did not break any rules on the website, should she be punished here anyway for things they may have done on the Discord server (which has a different set of rules and is not ran by dark52)? In her case, it doesn't matter anyway since she's gone, but it is something to think about for the future, I suppose.

Second, I believe there needs to be more discussion on what is appropriate for this website. I have seen many people, not just Pankakesparx, say things like, "This is a Spyro The Dragon fansite" in reference to Buchi's jokes, as if those sorts of things don't belong here. And Pankake (and many others) are right. Those sorts of jokes are not only inappropriate here, but are not appropriate at all in any context in my opinion. (This has also been said about politics and other real-world topics, but I think as for now those sorts of discussions aren't a problem provided they're kept in the appropriate place and each participant shows respect for the opposing viewpoint). Here is my problem. Why are Buchi's jokes not allowed, when there are posts that are even worse than his still up? I know we don't have many active mods and up until this topic we had zero global mods, but there was no public complaints from users on here when it happened, which tells me that nobody cared. I know many people are very close with each other here, so it's easy to say of your friend "oh, he/she is just joking", but if the justification for removing Buchi's posts is that this is a kids site, then every single post joking about shooting, killing, beheading, etc. should be removed. I understand that it might be unreasonable to ask for every post in the past be removed (even though I know for a FACT that many of them have been reported and have not yet been removed, but like I said, I understand the mods are in a tough situation and lacked many vital tools at the time). I am asking that in the future, we have more clear rules on what exactly is allowed. On the rules page, it says saying this is against the rules: ****; but there is no mention of making sexual jokes (some of which are still on the website and are very obscene and graphic). I would argue that making such sexual comments is much more inappropriate than using bad language, especially if we use the argument that this is a kid-friendly site. I am asking for more open communication on what exactly is allowed and a stricter enforcement of the rules (so basically what everyone else is saying), and with the mods soon being able to ban users, I am confident that we won't have as many incidents like this in the future. I just hope that everyone else does their part in making sure the site doesn't look like a purple version of 4chan by speaking up against this behavior, because the community as a whole has been very selective of who they let get away with these kinds of things in the past, and quite frankly, I know we are all better than that. We need to hold each other accountable to the same standard, because even with the mods finally having more authority, they won't be here 24/7. I know sometimes I can overreact and say things that I shouldn't. Sometimes I catch myself and delete my post before too many people see it but if I mess up, please tell me. Don't let me look like an idiot and get even more moderated messages. I know this community is better than this, and I'm sorry for not doing what I could in the past to curb this sort of behavior.

Third, remind me not too type too much on one point because then I will forget all of the rest of whatever I was gonna say.

I guess in conclusion I can only ask that we have greater accountability among ourselves to hold our community to a higher standard that is more clearly defined than the one we have now. Many of the changes being asked for will come in time, and it will be a slow process to correct all the years of frustration many of us hid for so long, but for now, we can just take it one step at a time and be thankful that we have so many people that care deeply enough about this site to speak up when they see it going down a dangerous path.

edit: i promise the naughty word was only partially censored when i posted this
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 07:19:09 06/04/2019 by Gharlant
Samius Hunter Gems: 7923
#29 Posted: 17:31:43 06/04/2019
My thanks to those who made this message be heard, and to dark52 for taking it seriously. I admit, I had my doubts when I first saw this topic.
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Per aspera ad astra
Iblistech Emerald Sparx Gems: 4471
#30 Posted: 00:00:31 11/04/2019
Thank you for Dark for taking all of these issues, thoughts and pieces of advice to heart, and taking it seriously. There are still a lot of things to be done, but I think we can get the forum back on the right track.
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Hail to the King, baby!
FedUpWolf Blue Sparx Gems: 852
#31 Posted: 15:16:20 15/04/2019
Thank-you Dark52 for heeding these issues.
Drawdler Gold Sparx Gems: 2736
#32 Posted: 23:16:01 02/07/2019
Yes. Hello. Has this site actually changed since dark enforced global mods? I can't tell one way or the other. People here seem to be happier with it, but as a lurker, everything looks the same, aside from a couple "negative" things being stamped out.

Which you should know, I think just made the site more boring/maybe sort of were scapegoats. (Well, along with bigger things contributed much more to the site imo becoming boring and I've had my rant about that, but you can't just magically force 'landers-level interest back on.)

I'm checking in honestly because I'm lonely and this site is still more important to me than I'd like it to be.

I know I've complained and not offered suggestions. It's honestly because I just know the site isn't for me anymore. I wanted it to move in a direction I assume the majority would disagree with and think a Spyro fansite shouldn't be. People seem to want the site to be more proper. So okay. I'll go. There at least a dozen huge reasons I quit being a regular (some just personal), but (along with just less "fun") this was the smoking gun, yet I know is just a difference of opinion.

... I mean, I think many regulars on this site will act more crudely in private conversations- and there are plenty of "clean" Spyro sites, so this one is more redundant like this- and this site has some users from 10+ years ago, so I think it's sort of dumb it hasn't matured beyond the idea that this has to be a kids' site. But if people want to keep it simpler, and lighter, fine.
And maybe I'm just wrong how I assume people act in private, but I still have a couple degenerate friends from here. Although they left too. Maybe they felt the same. Whatever.

There is something I had to say about this topic. Where I actually have a point. Which I only saw a couple weeks ago. But it nagged me since.

Quote:
The darkspyro way of confronting users is quite silly as making vague posts in personal thoughts does nothing but cause unnecessary drama. Another way users confront others is by harassing them in forum posts through ways of subtle jabs or straight up attacking them and calling them names and the such. This behavior of trying to make the site better is honestly quite silly and does nothing for the long run.


This.

Reading this made me really sad.

Has that ended at all?

I'm sure there are people on this site who will silently hate me for various things and I tried to be pretty open about asking for direct criticism years ago and yet nobody did it. And I'm not referring to particular users, so don't take this as a jab. I'm saying this is something I genuinely assume to just come with this site and assume is a mainstay issue and seeing it more validated ****ing sucks.

I'll come out and admit I've done this myself to: Aura24 (multiple times even), and in one other post, ToyNerd and Bolt and Gharlant at once. I didn't make it up to them, but I still regret it and will admit most of my failings if they come up (like this one...), regardless. And I have the balls to admit it now. (If I did this some other time, I just don't remember it, so sorry.)

The site should be well beyond that passive-aggressive bull****, especially if you're aiming to tidy it rather than embrace more degeneracy. Which seems to be the way the site has gone.

Criticise yourselves too. Not all issues are on the admin. Not at all.
Some of you seem to do this individually (mad respect for sP for doing that actually, and some other stuff but I'll shut up), but I don't think I've ever seen an open conversation about it.

I dealt with the passive-aggressive **** years ago, suspect it's been aimed at me multiple times since, and also been a mod on another site where the admin was even more inactive than dark and it was a smaller site, but did leave us with one particular pressing troll- who repeatedly harassed the staff with false legal threats- for months. So I've both had to mull over community **** and also dealt with the failings of a bad admin, both personally. They both happen. Also I admit some of that site's issues fell on us mods but that's not particularly relevant to my argument.

For the entire time I've known this site, people only really seem to unite on issues- at least enough to make noise- where they can blame dark. Or of course the dogpiling.

By the way, those passive-agressive posts really ****ing hurt me.
They're actually one of the first things I remember about this site.
That really sounds like a jab too. Sorry. It's not. I'm sad about it. Just getting out how I feel.

Also Lunarz was the main guy that did it (and only one who I know for damn sure was jabbing at me), but he tried to make it up to me, and I haven't thought of him as the guy who did that since. He tried to speak with me, genuinely. He seemed to mature past it, but regardless, tremendously improved. So mad respect/shoutout to him, even though we haven't talked whatsoever in over a year, don't care.

Besides that, the site must surely have other issues and... I think it's been months since you guys made this topic, but are you just gonna not bring up any other issues that might exist, and sit as if you're totally satisfied now that you have better moderation tools? Is it just gonna be that other issues can build up and then be a pile and boil over again at some point?
I know better mod tools are a big boon. But this can't be it.

I guess I can't blame you when dark has always been so inactive and bringing up issues always seems hopeless. And I don't really know what other issues one could point at. But again, anytime the community as a whole brings up issues with the site as a whole it seems like it's to blame it on dark. And people seem to bring these issues up in "bursts" rather than continually work on them. But I guess if there's better stuff behind-the-scenes a) I don't see it because I don't really lurk hard and b) it's hard to see subtle improvements. I definitely don't know everything, I admit it, just in case that isn't obvious enough. :V Throwing my hat in anyway.
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Quote: ThefirstNapkin
You'll always be the OG Jojo fan here
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 23:47:56 02/07/2019 by Drawdler
pankakesparx456 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6864
#33 Posted: 17:32:23 08/07/2019 | Topic Creator
On one hand you do have a point about things happening in "bursts," but it's already pretty difficult to have anything happen in a positive direction when dark is inactive as he is.

On the other hand, the main goal of this particular topic was accomplished. At least, two of them anyways: We got global mods and mods have new tools to deal with future situations easier like the ones I brought up when I made this topic, and a way for them to ban users is also being implemented in some way. And I think anyone who has been here for more than two years understands how huge of a move that is when things here progress as slowly as they do. The only thing that weren't addressed are new mod applications and potentially adding new admins(but lord knows if that ever comes to fruition). So aside from other users venting their own grievances on this topic about the state of darkSpyro at any point, this topic is pretty much over with.
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Cool cool.
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