darkSpyro

Because if you're from anywhere else, your opinion is invalid. So please shut your Yankee mouth up and sit your Yankee ass down.


On a PERSONAL NOTE:

I see the flag all the time. And each time, I get chills down my spine.

I know what it stands for. They can say "HERITAGE NOT HATE" and "STATES' RIGHTS" all they want, but slavery is just hard to look past. It's very, very troubling.

THAT BEING SAID...


Southerners are, for the most part, proud, hardworking people. They can be very humble, too, believe it or not. Some piece of cloth is not going to make us want to overthrow the government and enslave people again. In fact, trying to take away our right to fly the flag is what might get you that kind of response.

The Confederate flag is just as Anti-American as the Soviet or Nazi flag. The message it sends is VERY dubious. But if burning the American flag is protected by the First Amendment, then this should be as well. It's just a symbol.

We, for the most part, love everyone. If anyone wants to act negatively on it, we'll stop them. I can promise you.

this sums up what i think
https://youtu.be/y3M6PPHUdxA?t=1m22s

Quote: Metallo

Because if you're from anywhere else, your opinion is invalid. So please shut your Yankee mouth up and sit your Yankee ass down.


On a PERSONAL NOTE:

I see the flag all the time. And each time, I get chills down my spine.

I know what it stands for. They can say "HERITAGE NOT HATE" and "STATES' RIGHTS" all they want, but slavery is just hard to look past. It's very, very troubling.

THAT BEING SAID...


Southerners are, for the most part, proud, hardworking people. They can be very humble, too, believe it or not. Some piece of cloth is not going to make us want to overthrow the government and enslave people again. In fact, trying to take away our right to fly the flag is what might get you that kind of response.

The Confederate flag is just as Anti-American as the Soviet or Nazi flag. The message it sends is VERY dubious. But if burning the American flag is protected by the First Amendment, then this should be as well. It's just a symbol.

We, for the most part, love everyone. If anyone wants to act negatively on it, we'll stop them. I can promise you.

Well said Metallo. I think it's pretty dumb for people to think that us Southerners still favor slavery or want to overthrow the government. That's been behind us for many centuries now. Seriously folks... LET IT GO ALREADY.

I feel like this is appropriate for this topic too.
Quote: AvatariDragon

The Confederates were people in the south who wanted to preserve their heritage and way of life. Yes, slavery was part of that but not all southerners supported slavery or owned slaves or were part of the KKK. And as a southerner myself, I find it offensive when people assume things like this, especially when I haven't done a damn thing to anyone.

Quote: AvatariDragon

I feel like this is appropriate for this topic too.
Quote: AvatariDragon

The Confederates were people in the south who wanted to preserve their heritage and way of life. Yes, slavery was part of that but not all southerners supported slavery or owned slaves or were part of the KKK. And as a southerner myself, I find it offensive when people assume things like this, especially when I haven't done a damn thing to anyone.

Adding on to it, I feel like if other flags are allowed in this country, the Confederate flag should be too. Whether you like it or not, it is a part of our history. A major part, actually, so I kinda think it deserves to be flown more than most other flags, besides our national flag of course. Most of the time it isn't even flown for racism or anything, it's just seen as southern pride. "I'm from the south and I'm proud." That's literally what people are saying when they fly it. I've even seen black people fly the flag, or at least support it. People just think it's bad because people like the KKK use it for bad things, and just like the KKK, the only people who really seem to care anymore are the people who can't seem to let go of a past that doesn't even affect them.

This sums up exactly what I think.

Quote: Metallo

Because if you're from anywhere else, your opinion is invalid. So please shut your Yankee mouth up and sit your Yankee ass down.

No thanks.

I'm all for the idea of Southerners having a sense of pride for where they come from. Just like how people can have pride for being American and New Yorkers can have a massive ego about their hometown, the South should have a symbol for their heritage and pride.

But the Confederate flag just shouldn't be it.

I'm not a Southern man, but I'm a bit of a history man. And while there were multiple causes to the establishment of the Confederacy and the Civil War, one of the biggest ones (and the one that gets the most attention) is that the Confederacy was born with the idea of preserving slavery. The Confederacy fought in the Civil War with intention of keeping that slavery. And so the Confederate flag, a symbol of the nation that almost was, is in extension a reminder of what they fought for and wanted to preserve. Not to mention the flag was even further buried by the KKK using it as a symbol for their white supremacy.

It's just like the swastika. The symbol has always had a religious and peaceful meaning to it. But with a variation of the swastika being used by Nazi Germany and all the destruction they caused, in the western world the symbol is associated almost universally with Nazis, Hitler, facism, and white supremacy. Even if it has another meaning to it or there's a meaning that YOU want to give it, it's drowned out by the heavy symbolism it already carries.

The Confederate flag serves often as not simply a symbol of Southern pride, but also a reminder of the Confederacy breaking away from the United States and later fighting to maintain the oppression of an entire race. And sad to say, that stigma isn't going to go away any time soon, since the flag otherwise wasn't used for anything that could redeem it.

Quote: CAV

Quote: Metallo

Because if you're from anywhere else, your opinion is invalid. So please shut your Yankee mouth up and sit your Yankee ass down.

No thanks.

I'm all for the idea of Southerners having a sense of pride for where they come from. Just like how people can have pride for being American and New Yorkers can have a massive ego about their hometown, the South should have a symbol for their heritage and pride.

But the Confederate flag just shouldn't be it.

I'm not a Southern man, but I'm a bit of a history man. And while there were multiple causes to the establishment of the Confederacy and the Civil War, one of the biggest ones (and the one that gets the most attention) is that the Confederacy was born with the idea of preserving slavery. The Confederacy fought in the Civil War with intention of keeping that slavery. And so the Confederate flag, a symbol of the nation that almost was, is in extension a reminder of what they fought for and wanted to preserve. Not to mention the flag was even further buried by the KKK using it as a symbol for their white supremacy.

It's just like the swastika. The symbol has always had a religious and peaceful meaning to it. But with a variation of the swastika being used by Nazi Germany and all the destruction they caused, in the western world the symbol is associated almost universally with Nazis, Hitler, facism, and white supremacy. Even if it has another meaning to it or there's a meaning that YOU want to give it, it's drowned out by the heavy symbolism it already carries.

The Confederate flag serves often as not simply a symbol of Southern pride, but also a reminder of the Confederacy breaking away from the United States and later fighting to maintain the oppression of an entire race. And sad to say, that stigma isn't going to go away any time soon, since the flag otherwise wasn't used for anything that could redeem it.

I'm going to agree with both your points. I think that people should be able to have it outside their homes on their private property if they choose to do so, but that no government building should have that flag flown on a flagpole on it's property. I honestly haven't been following this issue very closely, so I'm unsure where this big problem fully comes from, but this is my stance on the issue now, yes.

I'm not really sure about how I feel about people flying it on their own property. I suppose I'm on the indifferent side about that.

But on government buildings it probably shouldn't be. I don't necessarily feel strongly on the matter, but I definitely understand why people have a problem with it and it's better to just find a different symbol, even if it's redesigning a flag.

What's with all the serious topics from metallo lately

I watched this video that made an analogy that went something like this.

Wanting to keep the Confederate flag is like being happily married to an honest wife and then you get divorced and marry a messy, troublesome slutty woman. Sh ends up murdering someone and goes to prison for lifetime. You divorce her and remarry your old wife, but you still hang pictures up around your house of your now former wife who is in prison, and that is like wanting to wave the Confederate flag.

I don't necessarily agree with it, although I can see why people are so adamant in banning the Confederate flag.

Quote: CAV

I'm not really sure about how I feel about people flying it on their own property. I suppose I'm on the indifferent side about that.

i think it would be too much of negative gateway to ban it from private property

if we ban one thing for being offensive, then it'll start to become okay to ban things simply because they're offensive to some people, and the whole "let's ban things of personal taste" just isn't a road i think any nation should being to go down.

and besides i'm sure the right to fly whatever flag you want is protected by the constitution under freedom of speech.

Quote: Mrmorrises

I watched this video that made an analogy that went something like this.

Wanting to keep the Confederate flag is like being happily married to an honest wife and then you get divorced and marry a messy, troublesome slutty woman. Sh ends up murdering someone and goes to prison for lifetime. You divorce her and remarry your old wife, but you still hang pictures up around your house of your now former wife who is in prison, and that is like wanting to wave the Confederate flag.

I don't necessarily agree with it, although I can see why people are so adamant in banning the Confederate flag.

this was wild from start to finish

Quote: TheFlyingSeal

Quote: Mrmorrises

I watched this video that made an analogy that went something like this.

Wanting to keep the Confederate flag is like being happily married to an honest wife and then you get divorced and marry a messy, troublesome slutty woman. Sh ends up murdering someone and goes to prison for lifetime. You divorce her and remarry your old wife, but you still hang pictures up around your house of your now former wife who is in prison, and that is like wanting to wave the Confederate flag.

I don't necessarily agree with it, although I can see why people are so adamant in banning the Confederate flag.

this was wild from start to finish

Hey, I didn't invent the analogy.

Quote: Metallo

Because if you're from anywhere else, your opinion is invalid. So please shut your Yankee mouth up and sit your Yankee ass down.

I really don't care about the topic, but I do love pointing out logical fallacies, so...

Genetic Fallacy.

Because I am in Louisiana I will give my opinion on this matter.
I DON'T GIVE A ****!

I understand freedom of speech and expression is important and all that jazz, but to me this is one of those issues equating to "Shouting fire in a crowded theater," which is the classic "exception to the First Amendment. Yes, this symbol will be forever linked to slavery in the United States, regardless of whatever people try to justify as its actual symbolism.

But let's take it one step further. The use of the flag seems intended to "honor the memories" of those who served for the Confederate army. The American Civil War was one of the most violent and gruesome wars that took place in our history, and this was before trench warfare came about in WWI.

Why any Southern state would choose to pay tribute to individuals willing to fight and kill their fellow countrymen to protect a "general way life" which included an element that stood in direct contradiction to our Declaration of Independence's proclamation, "That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness," is something I am not able to fathom.

Perhaps it's because I'm descended from Soviet and Polish immigrants and had no ancestors in the Civil War. But I know for a fact Southern states have both monuments paying tribute to as well as buildings like schools named after Confederate personnel such as Jefferson Davis. It doesn't matter what the intention was behind this, things like this WILL be permanently linked to slavery and the violation of human rights that accompanies it.

Ultimately though, the discussion is pointless. Removing symbols like the Confederate Flag will not suddenly stop individuals from discriminating again people of other ethnicities. The only way to make that happen is to educate. Otherwise, hatred will live on and those who hate will likely pass such thoughts and behaviors onto future generations.

But what do I know? <.<

If we're going to ban flags based on tyranny committed by the nation, then the first to go should be the Union Jack.


Don't even argue. You know it's true.


But I do agree with CAV in that official government buildings shouldn't fly it.........Even though he is a dirty carpetbagger. >.>