darkSpyro

Gonna get ta wii u and this game today. Prepare to get zapped- in 1080p.

GARNET AND LAPIS 4 SMASH

Quote: zer0dch

Sm4sh is the most unfun smash.

Hopefully Sakurai is not directing the next one. The guy has some awful bias, and is an awful fighting game director.

I'd rather play Brawl than Sm4sh. I'm serious. At least Brawl doesn't have the god damn awful endlag, and is consistent with how it feels. Sm4sh doesn't know whether it wants to play like brawl or feel like melee.

If your just gonna talk about why Smash 4 is bad, then don't come on here. It's not welcome.

But do you need to come and talk about the game negatively? Just don't say anything. Do I care if you think Smash 4 is bad? No, I couldn't careless, but you don't need to come here and bash it.

If you'd like me to go in depth about the games flaws, I'd be happy to. Although, if its not "allowed" in the games general community....then I'd be happy to exploit the mess of the rules as they are and make a "*X is bad and here's why" for various games.

Surely the previous user debating against me is wrong.

Edit: I have to go to work, I'll be back in nine hours with my feed back.

What about Melee? You seem to adore that game. What are it's flaws?

Quote: zer0dch

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

What about Melee? You seem to adore that game. What are it's flaws?

If you're looking for an argument, feel free to PM me. I haven't gone in depth yet about Sm4sh, nor did I bring up Melee in this topic.
You're acting like a little kid. If you can't accept that I don't like the game and am allowed to post my thoughts about it, then maybe you need to grow up a bit.

I couldn't care less that you don't like Smash 4. I just don't want you coming on here and saying you don't like it. It's not nessesary.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

What you said was the equivalent of walking into a conversation about something and then saying it sucks without giving reasoning behind why you think that, which in itself is childish and immature.

You do have the right to criticize a game or point out it's flaws, there's nothing wrong with that at all, but you're supposed to be constructive with your criticism, not saying "this is a bad game" and then not explaining why you feel that way.

He did say why, the endlag. I have to agree though, I'm not a fan of the endlag either. There's to much of it.

what do you guys think king k rool chances are for dlc

I don't understand why people always whine about end lag with Smash 4. Each move is individually balanced to have appropriate end lag. In Melee and 64, every thing could be L-cancelled, making end lag on all aerials redundant. In Brawl, everything had a lot of end lag. In Smash 4, it's on a move by move basis, which is how it should be. The really powerful moves tend to be the ones with a lot of end lag, and the strong characters like Bowser and Ganondorf tend to have tons of end lag, while Sheik and ZSS have barely any on most of their moves, but then they struggle to get a KO in.

Plus, Smash 4 does have auto-cancelling. When you learn how to use auto-cancelling, you'll never complain about aerial landing lag (Rosalina, Ike, Sonic, and Pit/Dark Pit seem to benefit most from this mechanic, especially Rosalina, but other characters can use it too).

Also the only reason Smash 4 fell off in popularity was because of the over saturation of Diddy Kong. He was overhyped and latched onto mainly because of the "HOO HAH" (I didn't think it was as great as everyone believed, but that's irrelevant now), which pretty much made it so that so many tournaments were just Diddy Kong dittos the majority of the time.

However, "The Mewtwo Patch" has nerfed Diddy like crazy, including making the HOO HAH much less viable an option. Almost useless, even. Along with other characters being tweaked, both in buffs and nerfs, this patch is going to change things. We will see much more diversity in meta game now. Diddy is not even close to a top tier character anymore, and many people only played him because of how easy he was to use, not because they have a sentimental attachment to the character or because they had their own unique way of playing the character. Sheik was the next most popular character that people complained about, and she also got a bit of a nerf. So everyone is going to start switching things up now.

Smash 4 is objectively the best balanced Smash game. The majority of the figthers are at least VIABLE (which wasn't the case in previous games - You had about 10 to 15 characters that were considered viable) and the gaps between the tiers, outside of the top tier and maybe the bottom tier, are like, tiny. It may as well be top tier, middle tier, bottom tier, with each tier containing about a third of the cast each. That's how small the differences in tiers are this time around are.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I don't understand why people always whine about end lag with Smash 4. Each move is individually balanced to have appropriate end lag. In Melee and 64, every thing could be L-cancelled, making end lag on all aerials redundant. In Brawl, everything had a lot of end lag. In Smash 4, it's on a move by move basis, which is how it should be. The really powerful moves tend to be the ones with a lot of end lag, and the strong characters like Bowser and Ganondorf tend to have tons of end lag, while Sheik and ZSS have barely any on most of their moves, but then they struggle to get a KO in.

Plus, Smash 4 does have auto-cancelling. When you learn how to use auto-cancelling, you'll never complain about aerial landing lag (Rosalina, Ike, Sonic, and Pit/Dark Pit seem to benefit most from this mechanic, especially Rosalina, but other characters can use it too).

Also the only reason Smash 4 fell off in popularity was because of the over saturation of Diddy Kong. He was overhyped and latched onto mainly because of the "HOO HAH" (I didn't think it was as great as everyone believed, but that's irrelevant now), which pretty much made it so that so many tournaments were just Diddy Kong dittos the majority of the time.

However, "The Mewtwo Patch" has nerfed Diddy like crazy, including making the HOO HAH much less viable an option. Almost useless, even. Along with other characters being tweaked, both in buffs and nerfs, this patch is going to change things. We will see much more diversity in meta game now. Diddy is not even close to a top tier character anymore, and many people only played him because of how easy he was to use, not because they have a sentimental attachment to the character or because they had their own unique way of playing the character. Sheik was the next most popular character that people complained about, and she also got a bit of a nerf. So everyone is going to start switching things up now.

Smash 4 is objectively the best balanced Smash game. The majority of the figthers are at least VIABLE (which wasn't the case in previous games - You had about 10 to 15 characters that were considered viable) and the gaps between the tiers, outside of the top tier and maybe the bottom tier, are like, tiny. It may as well be top tier, middle tier, bottom tier, with each tier containing about a third of the cast each. That's how small the differences in tiers are this time around are.

You just convinced me other wise. Thank you!

I don't care about endlag much, unless it's like Pac-Man's pre-1.0.6 grab. That was terrible. Ton Link/Link's Hookshot is probably 2nd worst, but Pac-Man's is still the worst. One of my main's (Toon Link) airiels have terrible endlag, but I almost always try to get my opponent in the air when using him. However, I hate Start-up lag (like Yoshi's Fair, Greninja's Fair, Falcon Punch, or Warlock Punch). Unless you can predict where your opponent is going to go, you're unlikely to hit.

Also, I once found a Mewtwo/Shulk replay, and Shulk did almost nothing but grab. I think he lost by two Stocks, and it was a two-Stock match.

IMO, Bowser Jr. has the best grab. It has good range and not much endlag. Start-up is slighly slow, though.

P.S. I'm new to smash, so I could be wrong about some things.

Quote: zer0dch

I am allowed to speak about aspects on the game I do not like. Its like this is your first message board on the planet.

It is completely fine to plot out the games flaws. If the point that I was trying to set across of Sakurai being a bad director, bias, or making poor decisions isn't constructive enough for you, ignore it. Its incredibly easy to comprehend the points I'm trying to get across.

However, if I need to clarify these points to any of you, that's fine by me. Sees, I get the what you mean. However, the points stand clear and comprehensive. Heyitshotdog is acting childish and doesn't want the negativity, however, its free to state an opinion. If any of you disagree with my points, challenge me on it. Feel free to ask me why I feel Sm4sh is the worst game in the series.

Like I mentioned, I won't be able to give a clear in depth post until I'm off work. However, the points I stated are clear and comprehensive enough for any user to understand.

I have nothing against you stating your opinion, it just seems that you came on here to complain about why you don't like the game when you didn't need to. Just keep your feelings on the game to yourself so no one gets angry.

Zer0 if you're just going to come on here and be a dick to everyone on here because they don't follow the same mindset and opinions that you believe in, why bother even coming back to the forums? Did you really crave our attention that badly?

Then read SonicBrawler's comment on why there is so much endlag this time around.

Quote: zer0dch

Sm4sh is the most unfun smash.

Hopefully Sakurai is not directing the next one. The guy has some awful bias, and is an awful fighting game director.

I'd rather play Brawl than Sm4sh. I'm serious. At least Brawl doesn't have the god damn awful endlag, and is consistent with how it feels. Sm4sh doesn't know whether it wants to play like brawl or feel like melee.

All I can say is that Sakurai might be the reason there is so many Kid Icarus trophies and enemies in Smash Run. Honestly, quite a few were uneccesary. Did we really need both Phlage AND Zuree? They're pretty much the same enemy except one hits multiple times, the other only once.

Still, though, this I disagree with this game being lousy. Also, I have no problems with the end-lag.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: zer0dch

Sm4sh is the most unfun smash.

Hopefully Sakurai is not directing the next one. The guy has some awful bias, and is an awful fighting game director.

I'd rather play Brawl than Sm4sh. I'm serious. At least Brawl doesn't have the god damn awful endlag, and is consistent with how it feels. Sm4sh doesn't know whether it wants to play like brawl or feel like melee.

All I can say is that Sakurai might be the reason there is so many Kid Icarus trophies and enemies in Smash Run. Honestly, quite a few were uneccesary. Did we really need both Phlage AND Zuree? They're pretty much the same enemy except one hits multiple times, the other only once.

Still, though, this I disagree with this game being lousy. Also, I have no problems with the end-lag.

Sm4sh is by no means lousy, and end-lag hasn't been for me either.

Quote: zer0dch

I didn't even see his post, thanks.

@SonicBrawler: end lag makes the game feel slower and way less competitive than even brawl. L cancelling was actually implemented in 64, continued on melee.

As for Sm4sh being well balanced? LOLNO. The patch may have nerfed a few characters, but man it sure as hell did not buff the ones that needed it. Auto-cancelling is no where beneficial to most characters.

Also, hotdog, thanks for the input on your side of the argument. All that came out of it was thread derailment by your posts of "stop the negativity its not wanted" and your whining. You literally didn't give me any reason as to why Sm4sh is the better game. Nice going. Unless you can give me some valid points as to why Sm4sh is better, I'm done replying to you.

Smash 4 is the most balanced smash game. In melee, Pichu/Kirby can't do **** against fox. Same with most of the cast in Brawl against IC and MK. In Smash 4, everyone stands a chance.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: zer0dch

I didn't even see his post, thanks.

@SonicBrawler: end lag makes the game feel slower and way less competitive than even brawl. L cancelling was actually implemented in 64, continued on melee.

As for Sm4sh being well balanced? LOLNO. The patch may have nerfed a few characters, but man it sure as hell did not buff the ones that needed it. Auto-cancelling is no where beneficial to most characters.

Also, hotdog, thanks for the input on your side of the argument. All that came out of it was thread derailment by your posts of "stop the negativity its not wanted" and your whining. You literally didn't give me any reason as to why Sm4sh is the better game. Nice going. Unless you can give me some valid points as to why Sm4sh is better, I'm done replying to you.

Smash 4 is the most balanced smash game. In melee, Pichu/Kirby can't do **** against fox. Same with most of the cast in Brawl against IC and MK. In Smash 4, everyone stands a chance.

...Except Olimar. ...Or can he be useful too? He's just so... so gimmicky, and I don't see where he's useful.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: zer0dch

I didn't even see his post, thanks.

@SonicBrawler: end lag makes the game feel slower and way less competitive than even brawl. L cancelling was actually implemented in 64, continued on melee.

As for Sm4sh being well balanced? LOLNO. The patch may have nerfed a few characters, but man it sure as hell did not buff the ones that needed it. Auto-cancelling is no where beneficial to most characters.

Also, hotdog, thanks for the input on your side of the argument. All that came out of it was thread derailment by your posts of "stop the negativity its not wanted" and your whining. You literally didn't give me any reason as to why Sm4sh is the better game. Nice going. Unless you can give me some valid points as to why Sm4sh is better, I'm done replying to you.

Smash 4 is the most balanced smash game. In melee, Pichu/Kirby can't do **** against fox. Same with most of the cast in Brawl against IC and MK. In Smash 4, everyone stands a chance.

...Except Olimar. ...Or can he be useful too? He's just so... so gimmicky, and I don't see where he's useful.

Olimar has a small hitbox, which is good. He can't be hit by WFT's forward smash

All his side specials also count as grabs and can't be shielded. :0

Quote: zer0dch

I didn't even see his post, thanks.

@SonicBrawler: end lag makes the game feel slower and way less competitive than even brawl. L cancelling was actually implemented in 64, continued on melee.

As for Sm4sh being well balanced? LOLNO. The patch may have nerfed a few characters, but man it sure as hell did not buff the ones that needed it. Auto-cancelling is no where beneficial to most characters.

Also, hotdog, thanks for the input on your side of the argument. All that came out of it was thread derailment by your posts of "stop the negativity its not wanted" and your whining. You literally didn't give me any reason as to why Sm4sh is the better game. Nice going. Unless you can give me some valid points as to why Sm4sh is better, I'm done replying to you.

Except it doesn't, because Brawl had way worse end lag. This isn't something you can argue with. Just look at frame data comparing Brawl incarnations of characters with Smash Wii U/3DS incarnations. Also I'm aware L-cancelling was in 64, I said as much in my original post.

And while some of the changes in the patch were questionable, most of them were fine. The character who most needed buffs, being the Mii Swordfighter, got buffs to make its slow attacks have a damage output more appropriate of its speed. Lucina also got a damage buff across the board, and she isn't seen as the best of characters either.

The fact remains that there are way more viable characters than any previous Smash game, and that's why it's the most balanced. What's more, the top tier characters don't even fit one niche either. They are a solid mix. Rosalina & Luma are a paradigm shifting tag team, that can be played in whatever way you want. Sonic is a mix of rushdown and bait-punish mix-ups. Yoshi is a jack of all trades with solid options across the board, doing well in everything but particularly amazing at not many things. Ness has a a mix of great projectiles with lots of quirky properties, and some solid close quarters options too. Etc etc.

Also regarding Kid Icarus elements in Smash Run and what not , it's because Sakurai specifically designed many of Uprisings enemies and items to eventually be used in Smash. Since Uprising and Smash 3DS use the same system and graphics engine, importing stuff from Uprising was really easy.

AM I GOOD YET

Quote: I-Brawler

All his side specials also count as grabs and can't be shielded. :0

How about Purple Pikmin? Also, I don't like how his only damaging special is his Side B. None of his specials can even hit Master Hand. My main "strategy" right now is to run up to the opponent and blindly attack/dodge, which is probably why I'm not very good. However, since I started using Bowser Jr., I think I've been getting better. Bowser Jr. is an amazing fighter IMO.

Quote: Mesuxelf

AM I GOOD YET

Definitely better than me. However, I rarely play online. Also, I think Bowser Jr.'s Up B is good at Spiking (I think that's what it's called, but I'm new to SSB). Also, he has a hammer for if the opponent gets close. The only downside is that he has less defence (to be more specific, Bowser Jr. himself takes more damage, but the Clown Car takes less).

Quote: Qcumber

Quote: I-Brawler

All his side specials also count as grabs and can't be shielded. :0

How about Purple Pikmin? Also, I don't like how his only damaging special is his Side B. None of his specials can even hit Master Hand. My main "strategy" right now is to run up to the opponent and blindly attack/dodge, which is probably why I'm not very good. However, since I started using Bowser Jr., I think I've been getting better. Bowser Jr. is an amazing fighter IMO.

Quote: Mesuxelf

AM I GOOD YET

Definitely better than me. However, I rarely play online. Also, I think Bowser Jr.'s Up B is good at Spiking (I think that's what it's called, but I'm new to SS. Also, he has a hammer for if the opponent gets close. The only downside is that he has less defence (to be more specific, Bowser Jr. himself takes more damage, but the Clown Car takes less).

I don't think Bowser Jr. actually has a meteor smash.

my NNID is BluCrystal.

LOL my posts were removed because of a butthurt mod.

My opinion still stands. Sm4sh is Jo where near fun. Its slow,blastzonea are large, and endlag does make things feelnalower.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: Qcumber

Quote: I-Brawler

All his side specials also count as grabs and can't be shielded. :0

How about Purple Pikmin? Also, I don't like how his only damaging special is his Side B. None of his specials can even hit Master Hand. My main "strategy" right now is to run up to the opponent and blindly attack/dodge, which is probably why I'm not very good. However, since I started using Bowser Jr., I think I've been getting better. Bowser Jr. is an amazing fighter IMO.

Quote: Mesuxelf

AM I GOOD YET

Definitely better than me. However, I rarely play online. Also, I think Bowser Jr.'s Up B is good at Spiking (I think that's what it's called, but I'm new to SSB). Also, he has a hammer for if the opponent gets close. The only downside is that he has less defence (to be more specific, Bowser Jr. himself takes more damage, but the Clown Car takes less).

I don't think Bowser Jr. actually has a meteor smash.

Even if it's not a Meteor, I think it's good for KOing. It has good knockback, which can knock them too far from the stage to recover if they're already trying to recover. IMO it's a better thing to do than the method you posted because you don't have to recover yourself. I can see why people prefer it though, but I don't like the risk.

No, I wasn't trying to bait people. I actually wanted to have a conversation based on the games faults. Hotdog literally threw a tantrum of "we don't want the negativity!" rather than trying to form some sort of coherent argument.

People are free to come here and tell the board that they don't like said game, and give a reason why. If some other member doesn't like it, but has nothing other to to say other than "wah" then that member should ignore it.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

Quote: zer0dch

LOL my posts were removed because of a butthurt mod.

No, it's because you started trolling and baiting people like you always do because you know that you'll get a reaction.

Learn to turn off your 4chan manners when off of 4chan, m8.

This so much with every topic you start arguing with everyone.

Thank you for crediting me in the OP, TacoMakerSkys!

Wow, this is a nasty start to the new topic...

Quote: Skylanders fan

what do you guys think king k rool chances are for dlc

I say they're pretty high, he has a large amount of support, he's first party, and he's being supported by Retro Studios and Playtonic (Ex-Rare employee's) to get into Smash. Not to mention how unique he could be with a possible "trap" style moveset, where he uses his blunderbuss to send out status effects and cannonballs, use fake deaths to trick your opponent, and the many possible ways they could use the crown. He also would rep two underrepresented points on the roster, villains and DK fighters.

Quote: Qcumber

IMO, Bowser Jr. has the best grab. It has good range and not much endlag. Start-up is slighly slow, though.

P.S. I'm new to smash, so I could be wrong about some things.

As a Jr. main, his grab is probably one of the worst things about him in my opinion, it comes out slow and he doesn't have many good options once it works.

Quote: MugoUrth

All I can say is that Sakurai might be the reason there is so many Kid Icarus trophies and enemies in Smash Run. Honestly, quite a few were uneccesary. Did we really need both Phlage AND Zuree? They're pretty much the same enemy except one hits multiple times, the other only once.

Still, though, this I disagree with this game being lousy. Also, I have no problems with the end-lag.

I'm pretty sure that's just because...

1. Sakurai doesn't have to jump through any hoops in order to get the characters in the game as they are his, instead of say, Miyamoto with Petey Piranha.
2. Those characters already have high quality 3DS models to work with from Uprising, so instead of spending time on making a brand new model, they can just drag and drop without worry.
3. The characters are easy to implement, and instead of having to create new models and spend time fine tuning random Nintendo minions with a lower output of enemies in Smash Run, the team decided on spending some time on getting a whole bunch of easy to make Kid Icarus enemies to beef up the amount of different enemies you fight, a pretty similar story to the clones really.

This is not to say I'm not a little dissapointed by the lack of a lot of cool villains in Smash Run (Pikmin deserves more than two enemies, think about the Burrowing Snagret, Emperor Bulblax, the freakin' Waterwraith as another patrolling insta-kill monster like the Orn.), but I do understand why they did it.

Quote: ZapNorris

my NNID is BluCrystal.

Added.

Wait, pointing out the games flaws isn't enough for you? Do I have to explain the frame by frame data? Do I have to go into detail about how unbalanced the game is? Lol

Quote: zer0dch

Wait, pointing out the games flaws isn't enough for you? Do I have to explain the frame by frame data? Do I have to go into detail about how unbalanced the game is? Lol

Well yeah, that's generally the formula for making an argument: Point + Explanation + Example.

I don't have a problem with him stating his opinion. Zero is allowed to say what he wants to say, but it felt like he did it just to hate on the game. We get it you think it's unbalanced but no one cares!

Quote: zer0dch

Wait, pointing out the games flaws isn't enough for you? Do I have to explain the frame by frame data? Do I have to go into detail about how unbalanced the game is? Lol

Maybe pointing out those flaws in the first place would've been a great way to start your argument off?

Quote: TacoMakerSkys

Quote: zer0dch

Wait, pointing out the games flaws isn't enough for you? Do I have to explain the frame by frame data? Do I have to go into detail about how unbalanced the game is? Lol

Maybe pointing out those flaws in the first place would've been a great way to start your argument off?

Completely agreed.

Quote: zer0dch

Wait, pointing out the games flaws isn't enough for you? Do I have to explain the frame by frame data? Do I have to go into detail about how unbalanced the game is? Lol

It would be kinda helpful to better make your point rather than just "meleewinslol".

Personally I think Smash 4 is the best in the series and strikes the perfect balance for me between the defensive nature of Brawl and the offensive speed of Melee. It's not as unsatisfying and campy as Brawl was, while also not being so physically demanding and difficult for newcomers like Melee (yes you can play it casually fine, but there's a much higher barrier for competitive play that makes it a bit too unforgiving).

Yeah you can chalk that up to my fingers simply not being fast enough for Melee, but Smash 4 in general just has so much content in it. I look at Melee's roster nowadays and just wonder how we used to think that was a load of characters, especially when in the competitive scene there are really only about 10 characters on that roster worth playing (compared to Smash 4, where there's less than 10 that aren't, and that's before custom moves).

Different strokes for different folks. You'll always have people that like Melee more. But people here prefer 4 and while I do agree that an All Purpose thread should be about all of the Smash games (Project M included), it's understandable why 4 will get most of the focus. As long as everyone is respectful of each other and debates this in a calm manner without insulting each other, it's all good, right?

Just a heads up, i can't smash until later today because the copy of smash that i got keeps cutting out and i need to return it.

.....

No, that person playing as Bowser's just a scrub. Yes, that can happen if you're not careful, but with practice you can find a way to get out of combos.

Quote: MugoUrth

No, that person playing as Bowser's just a scrub. Yes, that can happen if you're not careful, but with practice you can find a way to get out of combos.

I'm saying as in large hurtbox. >.>