darkSpyro

And the options you have been considering have been working so well then?

Quote: sonicbrawler182

And the options you have been considering have been working so well then?

Honestly, it depends on who you ask.

It seems like you're approaching this as some theoretical thought experiment. The reality is far more complicated and subjective.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure of what it's not. In your philosophical mind, I'm sure that makes me a hypocrite. Frankly, I don't care.

I'm not american, but I think the problems with the labels are less to do with the fact that they cause distinction and more to do with the fact that racial/ethnic distinction has been viewed negatively. The solution may be less to do with removing such distinctions altogether and more to do with enforcing that cultural, ethnic and racial differences are a positive and interesting thing. For example, if you have African heritage, whether you or others refer to yourself as African American or not most likely wont affect any racist treatment you would receive for having African features/cultural behaviour. It may just come down to celebrating uniqueness rather than becoming blind to distinction for the sake of uniting people.
(I apologise if I missed the point completely, I have a migraine but still thought I'd add my two cents lol)

Quote: C1nder

I'm not american, but I think the problems with the labels are less to do with the fact that they cause distinction and more to do with the fact that racial/ethnic distinction has been viewed negatively. The solution may be less to do with removing such distinctions altogether and more to do with enforcing that cultural, ethnic and racial differences are a positive and interesting thing. For example, if you have African heritage, whether you or others refer to yourself as African American or not most likely wont affect any racist treatment you would receive for having African features/cultural behaviour. It may just come down to celebrating uniqueness rather than becoming blind to distinction for the sake of uniting people.
(I apologise if I missed the point completely, I have a migraine but still thought I'd add my two cents lol)

This is closer to my view, yeah

I'm certainly not arguing against cultural uniqueness, I'm just saying you don't need a hyphen to celebrate it. You celebrate it by spreading awareness of your culture and practicing. Many people who use the hyphens do not even do this. Which tells me that the hyphens don't exist for that purpose, at least anymore, and bring more harm than good.

I won't deny that I am, to a degree, debating semantics. But they are important semantics, I feel. Even more so to other people on a personal level.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I'm certainly not arguing against cultural uniqueness, I'm just saying you don't need a hyphen to celebrate it. You celebrate it by spreading awareness of your culture and practicing. Many people who use the hyphens do not even do this. Which tells me that the hyphens don't exist for that purpose, at least anymore, and bring more harm than good.

I won't deny that I am, to a degree, debating semantics. But they are important semantics, I feel. Even more so to other people on a personal level.

Once again, it's incredibly unfair for you to make this kind of judgment when you don't live in America and therefore don't see how these hyphenated people live. Cultural diversity is very much expressed here, at least where I live.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to comprehend that.

Quote: Metallo

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I'm certainly not arguing against cultural uniqueness, I'm just saying you don't need a hyphen to celebrate it. You celebrate it by spreading awareness of your culture and practicing. Many people who use the hyphens do not even do this. Which tells me that the hyphens don't exist for that purpose, at least anymore, and bring more harm than good.

I won't deny that I am, to a degree, debating semantics. But they are important semantics, I feel. Even more so to other people on a personal level.

Once again, it's incredibly unfair for you to make this kind of judgment when you don't live in America and therefore don't see how these hyphenated people live.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to comprehend that.

Yes, because America is a completely closed off space.

It is impossible to talk to these people online.

It is impossible to read well-documented material on how these people live in today's society.

It is impossible to encounter some who decide to move out of America, potentially to Ireland, later in their lives, where you can talk about the subject with them.

America is a TOP SECRET nation you guys. Nothin' leaks outta there.

ladies, ladies, youre both ugly

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Metallo

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I'm certainly not arguing against cultural uniqueness, I'm just saying you don't need a hyphen to celebrate it. You celebrate it by spreading awareness of your culture and practicing. Many people who use the hyphens do not even do this. Which tells me that the hyphens don't exist for that purpose, at least anymore, and bring more harm than good.

I won't deny that I am, to a degree, debating semantics. But they are important semantics, I feel. Even more so to other people on a personal level.

Once again, it's incredibly unfair for you to make this kind of judgment when you don't live in America and therefore don't see how these hyphenated people live.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to comprehend that.

Yes, because America is a completely closed off space.

It is impossible to talk to these people online.

It is impossible to read well-documented material on how these people live in today's society.

It is impossible to encounter some who decide to move out of America, potentially to Ireland, later in their lives, where you can talk about the subject with them.

America is a TOP SECRET nation you guys. Nothin' leaks outta there.

Talking to people and reading material is no substitute for immersion and firsthand experience. Those things can only tell you so much.

I really can't break it down any further than that.

Quote: Metallo

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Metallo

Once again, it's incredibly unfair for you to make this kind of judgment when you don't live in America and therefore don't see how these hyphenated people live.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to comprehend that.

Yes, because America is a completely closed off space.

It is impossible to talk to these people online.

It is impossible to read well-documented material on how these people live in today's society.

It is impossible to encounter some who decide to move out of America, potentially to Ireland, later in their lives, where you can talk about the subject with them.

America is a TOP SECRET nation you guys. Nothin' leaks outta there.

Talking to people and reading material is no substitute for immersion. Those things can only tell you so much.

I really can't break it down any further than that.

Sure, and you have to be killed yourself to understand how one could be killed.

hey is there going to be any actual discussion on
yknow
the actual topic

Quote: Vespi

hey is there going to be any actual discussion on
yknow
the actual topic

>asking to stay on-topic in Stuff & Nonsense

The first mistake was posting a serious topic in Stuff & Nonsense.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Vespi

hey is there going to be any actual discussion on
yknow
the actual topic

>asking to stay on-topic in Stuff & Nonsense

The first mistake was posting a serious topic in Stuff & Nonsense.

jeez its almost like idle chatter was made for specific topics like this and stuff an nonsense was for dicking around

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Metallo

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Yes, because America is a completely closed off space.

It is impossible to talk to these people online.

It is impossible to read well-documented material on how these people live in today's society.

It is impossible to encounter some who decide to move out of America, potentially to Ireland, later in their lives, where you can talk about the subject with them.

America is a TOP SECRET nation you guys. Nothin' leaks outta there.

Talking to people and reading material is no substitute for immersion. Those things can only tell you so much.

I really can't break it down any further than that.

Sure, and you have to be killed yourself to understand how one could be killed.

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Let me be as clear as I can:

I am saying that your judgments and assumptions of American cultural distinctions are largely incorrect, based on my own experience as an American living in America. There are some Americans who might agree with you, and that's perfectly fine. But that also proves my point about how complex and subjective the issue is. You seem to be attempting to simplify it to an absurd degree, which tells me you're approaching it from a very theoretical, unrealistic perspective - the kind of perspective that only someone who's incredibly naive or who has never lived here could have. I don't think you're naive. I think you're doing a disservice to the issue.

If you had prefaced your opinion by acknowledging the fact that you're not American and therefore have a more limited perspective, I could totally accept everything you said. But the fact that you didn't seems to imply that you believe that you can impose your theories on a situation that you have never seen firsthand.

Quote: Vespi

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Vespi

hey is there going to be any actual discussion on
yknow
the actual topic

>asking to stay on-topic in Stuff & Nonsense

The first mistake was posting a serious topic in Stuff & Nonsense.

jeez its almost like idle chatter was made for specific topics like this and stuff an nonsense was for dicking around

I know, right?

I've been trying to tell people this but nobody listens because, in actuality, I don't exist. :I

Quote:

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Let me be as clear as I can:

I am saying that your judgments and assumptions of American cultural distinctions are largely incorrect, based on my own experience as an American living in America. There are some Americans who might agree with you, and that's perfectly fine. But that also proves my point about how complex and subjective the issue is. You seem to be attempting to simplify it to an absurd degree, which tells me you're approaching it from a very theoretical, unrealistic perspective - the kind of perspective that only someone who's incredibly naive or who has never lived here could have. I don't think you're naive. I think you're doing a disservice to the issue.

If you had prefaced your opinion by acknowledging the fact that you're not American and therefore have a more limited perspective, I could totally accept everything you said. But the fact that you didn't seems to imply that you believe that you can impose your theories on a situation that you have never seen firsthand.

And you're damage controlling and providing me with non-answers like you have been for the past few posts.

Also I acknowledged the fact I wasn't American way back on the first page. Are you just reading what you want to now?

My point with my last post to you is that you seem to have an awful habit of speaking in absolutes. You are assuming that just because you can't understand issues without "full-immersion", others cannot either. That's not how it works.

metallo has gone full liberal

Quote: ZapNorris

metallo has gone full liberal

Son of a *****.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote:

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Let me be as clear as I can:

I am saying that your judgments and assumptions of American cultural distinctions are largely incorrect, based on my own experience as an American living in America. There are some Americans who might agree with you, and that's perfectly fine. But that also proves my point about how complex and subjective the issue is. You seem to be attempting to simplify it to an absurd degree, which tells me you're approaching it from a very theoretical, unrealistic perspective - the kind of perspective that only someone who's incredibly naive or who has never lived here could have. I don't think you're naive. I think you're doing a disservice to the issue.

If you had prefaced your opinion by acknowledging the fact that you're not American and therefore have a more limited perspective, I could totally accept everything you said. But the fact that you didn't seems to imply that you believe that you can impose your theories on a situation that you have never seen firsthand.

And you're damage controlling and providing me with non-answers like you have been for the past few posts.

Also I acknowledged the fact I wasn't American way back on the first page. Are you just reading what you want to now?

My point with my last post to you is that you seem to have an awful habit of speaking in absolutes. You are assuming that just because you can't understand issues without "full-immersion", others cannot either. That's not how it works.

You did say that, but you refuse to admit that it limits your perspective any when it's pretty obvious that it does.

Damage controlling? Non-answers? First of all, there's no "damage" I can see, and if my posts are non-answers then I'm just not sure what you're looking for in an answer. I've explained it as clearly as I can.

I guess you've got me on that last point, but I'm not ashamed of that; to me, it is presumptuous, ignorant, and even a bit arrogant to assume that you fully understand something from nothing but secondhand knowledge. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

EDIT: It seems like you're viewing this whole discussion as some kind of competition that you're trying to win. In that case, I can see why you're making the points that you are about damage control and non-answers. But I really don't see it that way.

Quote: ZapNorris

metallo has gone full liberal

That's my secret, Cap


I was always liberal

Quote: ZapNorris

metallo has gone full liberal

>implying thats necessarily a bad thing

Quote: Vespi

Quote: ZapNorris

metallo has gone full liberal

>implying thats necessarily a bad thing

On a serious note, I thought it was pretty clear that I'm very liberal

Don't know why it'd be a surprise

i always thought you were a republican, idk.

nothing wrong with being liberal.

Quote: ZapNorris

i always thought you were a republican, idk.

nothing wrong with being liberal.

....Have you ever read anything I've posted?

lol It's fine I guess, but no, I actually hate the GOP as an establishment and think it should be voted out of existence

Wait...people having a discussion about racism, sexism, and politics.....and being restrained and respectful?

What world did I wake up in...

I'm back guys, we do-

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

When a topic goes from discussing toxic masculinity to JonTron to race relations.

Oh Stuff and Nonsense, how I missed thee.

It's definately got a lot of Stuff.

jontron did nothing wrong

Quote: ZapNorris

jontron did nothing wrong

Care to expand on why you think that?