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darkSpyro - Spyro and Skylanders Forum > Video Gaming > Sonic now has more total video game sales than Super Mario or Pokémon
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Sonic now has more total video game sales than Super Mario or Pokémon [CLOSED]
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#1 Posted: 14:17:35 08/05/2016 | Topic Creator
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/eng...ll_ar2015_e.pdf

[User Posted Image]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...game_franchises

[User Posted Image]

NOTE: "Super Mario" consists only of the core Mario series, being stuff like the classic 2D platformers, the New Super Mario Bros games, and the 3D platformers like Super Mario 64. "Mario" is anything with the Mario name on it, and that still beats Sonic's total sales by quite a bit (mainly thanks to the phenomenal sales of Mario Kart), but this is still a really impressive feat and I never even expected Sonic to surpass Pokémon's sales, let alone Super Mario.

In all cases, these sales include physical units, digital downloads, and even expansion packs.

Super Mario Bros. first released on the NES on September 13th, 1985.
Sonic the Hedgehog first released on June 23rd, 1991.

By the time the first Sonic the Hedgehog had released, Super Mario World was the latest Super Mario game released, being the 6th game in the franchise.
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"Here I come, ready or Gormotti!"
Edited 5 times - Last edited at 14:28:37 08/05/2016 by sonicbrawler182
pankakesparx456 Platinum Sparx Gems: 7088
#2 Posted: 14:31:10 08/05/2016
Next time people say 'lol sanic is ded" I'm just gonna show them this.

Have the sales numbers for Super Mario and Pokemon been updated recently to completely confirm this?
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Cool cool.
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#3 Posted: 14:56:17 08/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: pankakesparx456
Next time people say 'lol sanic is ded" I'm just gonna show them this.

Have the sales numbers for Super Mario and Pokemon been updated recently to completely confirm this?



Pokémon's numbers are as of February 29th, 2016.

Super Mario's official total sales numbers are as of September 2015, however, the Wikipedia listing is also accounting for the confirmed 1.46 million units sold of Super Mario Maker as of December 2016.

Since December, Pokémon has only had Pokkén and VC ports.
Super Mario has only had a Super Mario World VC port on the New 3DS.
Sonic has only had Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games (3DS) and SEGA 3D Classics Collection. Most of what Sonic released in 2015 was Free to Play titles, which do not factor into the sales number, nor do their microtransactions, meaning Sonic just had an almost completely blank year sales wise.

Mario & Sonic Olympics factor into "Mario" and Sonic the Hedgehog sales, but not "Super Mario" sales.
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"Here I come, ready or Gormotti!"
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 14:57:41 08/05/2016 by sonicbrawler182
somePerson Platinum Sparx Gems: 5166
#4 Posted: 16:28:20 08/05/2016
Judging from the pictures of manufactured products it's very understandable how Sonic has more units sold than Mario and Pokemon. Sonic is on more platforms than Mario and Pokemon. Sonic has been released on every console that is accessible to people in this age. There is a sonic game on the Wii, X-Box 360, PS3, and Wii U. But they also love to remaster Sonic 1-3 and release them every year in collections. You will always see Sonic in a Sega Remaster or a Genesis Remaster in any store you go to. Hell you can buy Sonic 1 on your smart phone to play. Sonic also has many, many, many merchandise released in the past decade. Toys, shirts, TV shows, and dog tags are found in every store in your area. Mario and Pokemon however. Well they are only released on Nintendo products. And Nintendo consoles lately have been dying out with very small sells while consoles such as the PS4 raise by hundreds every week. Sonic just has more merchandise and releases accessible on every console.
CAV Platinum Sparx Gems: 5729
#5 Posted: 16:45:07 08/05/2016
Couple questions to clarify:

1. Are mobile titles included? Speecifically, if they're included, is each download counted as a purchase or do they try to count every individual transaction within the game as a purchase?

2. Are All Stars Racing and Superstars Tennis counted as Sonic titles?
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HIR Diamond Sparx Gems: 8725
#6 Posted: 16:50:32 08/05/2016
Okay. And movies that get panned by critics will sometimes have great box office showings. So it's just a good example of critical dissonance in video games. *shrug*
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Iblistech Emerald Sparx Gems: 4631
#7 Posted: 16:53:11 08/05/2016
The fact that he's a 3rd party character clearly gives him and his series an advantage over Mario and Pokemon, which are 1st party franchises.

This is proof that he's not dead at all, and that he's not terrible, like a lot of people think he is.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 16:56:26 08/05/2016 by Iblistech
StriderSwag Gold Sparx Gems: 2769
#8 Posted: 17:17:04 08/05/2016
Quote: Iblistech
The fact that he's a 3rd party character clearly gives him and his series an advantage over Mario and Pokemon, which are 1st party franchises.

This is proof that he's not dead at all, and that he's not terrible, like a lot of people think he is.


Sales don't prove something isn't terrible. Look at Batman v Superman or the Transformers movies, none of those have gotten good reviews, yet they continue to make millions of dollars.
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#9 Posted: 18:05:06 08/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: CAV
Couple questions to clarify:

1. Are mobile titles included? Speecifically, if they're included, is each download counted as a purchase or do they try to count every individual transaction within the game as a purchase?

2. Are All Stars Racing and Superstars Tennis counted as Sonic titles?



1) Only the ones that you pay for up front, so the Taxman remakes of Sonic 1, Sonic 2, and Sonic CD, as well as mobile versions of Sonic 4. Stuff like Sonic Dash and Sonic Runners are not included as they are free to play (though Sonic Dash was not free to play initially so I would assume that the initial sales of that count, not sure though). As far as microtransactions go, they do not count at all and a "download" of a free game does not count as a sale. As far as paid DLC goes, the Wikipedia page counts that information where applicable, but I do not know if SEGA Sammy is counting the paid DLC of Sonic games in their figures (Wikipedia is simply compiling sources and is not a source in and of itself, so it's only counting DLC for franchises where DLC sales numbers are released - this has not happened for Sonic to our knowledge).

2) All-Stars Racing is as it falls under the "Sonic" brand (SEGA even billed All-Star Racing Transformed as "the AAA Sonic title of 2012"). I'm not sure about SEGA Super Stars, but I would guess that it isn't because Sonic's name is not part of the title (much like how Super Smash Bros is not counted as a Mario game or a Super Mario game at all).

Quote: somePerson
Judging from the pictures of manufactured products it's very understandable how Sonic has more units sold than Mario and Pokemon. Sonic is on more platforms than Mario and Pokemon. Sonic has been released on every console that is accessible to people in this age. There is a sonic game on the Wii, X-Box 360, PS3, and Wii U. But they also love to remaster Sonic 1-3 and release them every year in collections. You will always see Sonic in a Sega Remaster or a Genesis Remaster in any store you go to. Hell you can buy Sonic 1 on your smart phone to play. Sonic also has many, many, many merchandise released in the past decade. Toys, shirts, TV shows, and dog tags are found in every store in your area. Mario and Pokemon however. Well they are only released on Nintendo products. And Nintendo consoles lately have been dying out with very small sells while consoles such as the PS4 raise by hundreds every week. Sonic just has more merchandise and releases accessible on every console.


Merchandise is not part of this figure. Even so, Mario and Pokémon have just as much merchandising as Sonic, if not way more in recent years (SEGA is gearing up for a big merchandising push for the 25th Anniversary but it has not really started yet). I mean there is literally Pokémon everything in Japan. Also, Pokémon has a lot more side releases and has even been doing remakes. Super Mario games have also been released in multiple collections and multiple times on the Virtual Console.

You also must consider that, Sonic is not at all popular in Japan, while Pokémon and Super Mario are internationally hugely popular.

Quote: StriderSwag

Sales don't prove something isn't terrible. Look at Batman v Superman or the Transformers movies, none of those have gotten good reviews, yet they continue to make millions of dollars.


Quote: HIR
Okay. And movies that get panned by critics will sometimes have great box office showings. So it's just a good example of critical dissonance in video games. *shrug*


I don't see why you are trying to downplay this because of the small minority of bad Sonic games. Pokémon and Super Mario have bad and divisive games too. This would be even more true with the larger Mario franchise, which has a ton of boring and uninspired shovelware, not to mention stuff like Sticker Star.

This is still a pretty big deal as far as gaming history goes. While Sonic is multi-platform, he has the disadvantage of having less popularity in Japan, while Super Mario and Pokémon enjoy mega popularity and merchandising there. He also does not see releases as frequently, especially not spin-offs. Spin-offs may not factor into the sales of the main Super Mario franchise, but they certainly serve as great advertising for them, as we saw on the Wii and even the Wii U, with how Mario Kart tends to be what draws people to play the core Super Mario franchise or even to buy the system it's on in the first place.

Sonic has also had plenty of games that were exclusive to a single console, even after SEGA going third party. Sonic has actually had most of his major releases be Nintendo system exclusive since going third party, especially the handheld titles.

Objectively speaking, the franchise has always been touted as one of the biggest out there, in part because the games are more beloved than they are hated, as is the character. We can also see evidence of this with how the Sonic franchise was just inducted into the World Video Game Hall of Fame at the National Museum of Play. It's celebrating it's Silver Anniversary this year and many events are planned for this. It's certainly not a dead franchise.

This is mainly big because nobody though any franchise would surpass Pokémon, let alone Super Mario, and thought they'd always remain on top. The fact that Sonic passed them is still a huge moment in gaming history., regardless of a few critically panned games, and regardless of your personal feelings on the franchise.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 18:07:17 08/05/2016 by sonicbrawler182
QueenChrysalis Green Sparx Gems: 465
#10 Posted: 21:47:16 08/05/2016
I find the idea that Sonic has redeemed himself between Sonic Boom and now laughable at best. Sales are probably being boosted by the old games being on Steam now. Fanboy more, plz.
HIR Diamond Sparx Gems: 8725
#11 Posted: 21:53:26 08/05/2016
I'm not downplaying it. He's a cultural icon of sorts and deserves it. I just hope most of those sales came from his good games and not his bad ones, but I feel like that may not entirely be the case. *shrug*
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sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#12 Posted: 22:05:30 08/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: QueenChrysalis
I find the idea that Sonic has redeemed himself between Sonic Boom and now laughable at best. Sales are probably being boosted by the old games being on Steam now. Fanboy more, plz.



The old games have been on Steam for years, I don't see why you say "now".

Don't see why people would even go for those especially with the Taxman remakes being a thing now.

Quote: HIR
I'm not downplaying it. He's a cultural icon of sorts and deserves it. I just hope most of those sales came from his good games and not his bad ones, but I feel like that may not entirely be the case. *shrug*


I mean '06 did well but that's because that game was hyped.

Sonic Boom absolutely bombed in the games department.
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Seiki Emerald Sparx Gems: 4573
#13 Posted: 23:06:16 08/05/2016
I'm not entirely surprised. Many of his games released on multiple platforms as opposed to Mario & Pokemon which are Nintendo exclusive. This allows Sonic better access to consumers. Sure, the other 2 have a large cult following, as does Sonic. Though in the end I'm not surprised. Die hard Playstation or Xbox fanboys may stick solely with their given console which alienates them from exclusives for other platforms.
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Once in my dreams, I rose and soared. No matter how I'm knocked around or beaten down, I will stand up restored.
kardonis Platinum Sparx Gems: 5369
#14 Posted: 23:57:53 08/05/2016
You mentioned that Mario and Pokemon both have bad games, and I would be very interested to hear which games these are. Aside from Hotel Mario on the CD-I and some of the ancient Mario educational games, I have no idea what you could be referring to.
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I used to be THE Bowser, now I'm just an awkward girl
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#15 Posted: 23:57:54 08/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: Seiki
I'm not entirely surprised. Many of his games released on multiple platforms as opposed to Mario & Pokemon which are Nintendo exclusive. This allows Sonic better access to consumers. Sure, the other 2 have a large cult following, as does Sonic. Though in the end I'm not surprised. Die hard Playstation or Xbox fanboys may stick solely with their given console which alienates them from exclusives for other platforms.



And once again I re-iterate - the majority of Sonic's major releases, in recent years especially, have been exclusive to a particular platform. Usually Nintendo.
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Sesshomaru75 Platinum Sparx [online] Gems: 6008
#16 Posted: 23:59:52 08/05/2016
Meh, I really don't think it's that big of a deal. It's certainly an impression, but high sales doesn't always equal quality products.
(Especially with a train wreck of a franchise like Sonic, which has quite frequent "bad" to "meh" installments)

Same goes for Super Mario and Pokémon obviously, but those franchises have always appealed to me more and have given me far less disappointments in the long run.
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#YangGang
Edited 3 times - Last edited at 00:11:17 09/05/2016 by Sesshomaru75
TheToyNerd Gold Sparx Gems: 2137
#17 Posted: 00:07:14 09/05/2016
Twisting statistics to prove a non-existent point! How shocking! But seriously, what does this prove? That Sonic is a popular game franchise? Well... Duh!
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#18 Posted: 00:26:55 09/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: kardonis
You mentioned that Mario and Pokemon both have bad games, and I would be very interested to hear which games these are. Aside from Hotel Mario on the CD-I and some of the ancient Mario educational games, I have no idea what you could be referring to.


Note that I said "bad or divisive" (as more Sonic games are "divisive" than outright "bad")

Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash
Paper Mario: Sticker Star (and it's reputation has already negatively effected it's upcoming sequel)
Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
Any Mario Party game after Mario Party 4, except for Mario Party DS, especially 9 & 10 (I actually personally like 10, but a lot of people don't)

I could honestly go on for ages because there is a lot of Mario shovelware too but you get the point.

As far as the "Super Mario" series goes, there is a lot of division on a lot of the titles really. I would argue that there are more Sonic games people actually can agree on being good and fun games than there are with the Mario franchise.

However, Lost Levels is generally perceived as a bad game, only being difficult because of cheap gimmicks, and Super Mario Sunshine is often quoted as being "the black sheep of the Mario franchise", due to not having a compelling new feature, repetitive environment design, lots of gimmicky levels that are poorly fleshed out, and the sometimes outright glitchy side missions, such as the infamous pachinko machine mission.

People are of course divided on the Galaxy games these days too, and a lot of people go on about how Super Mario 3D Land and 3D World are "not proper 3D Mario games and are boring in single-player, messy in multiplayer".

Then there's the NSMB series, a series I always see people moan about like it's the worst thing ever.

As for Pokémon, you have of course general divisions over the quality of each main generation of games. The Pokémon Mystery Dungeon series is considered very niche and hard to get into, and even fans of the games seem to be less keen on newer installments. Then you once again have shovelware like Hey You Pikachu!.

So yes, Mario and Pokémon are far from perfect franchises, and their fanbases are arguably more divided than Sonic's nowadays (most of the Sonic fanbase just being in a "wait and see and enjoy Aaron Webber's dank memes as well as Big's Big Fishing Adventure 3" mode).

Quote: TheToyNerd
Twisting statistics to prove a non-existent point! How shocking! But seriously, what does this prove? That Sonic is a popular game franchise? Well... Duh!


Making baseless statements without substance to prove a non-existent point! How shocking! But seriously, what does this prove? That TheToyNerd can't make a point and back it up? Well... Duh!
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"Here I come, ready or Gormotti!"
StriderSwag Gold Sparx Gems: 2769
#19 Posted: 00:36:48 09/05/2016
I don't know how I'm downplaying it. I was just saying things that aren't always critically well received can be immensely popular.
TheToyNerd Gold Sparx Gems: 2137
#20 Posted: 00:39:20 09/05/2016
Oh my god... You are spending way too much time on this one topic. I think for all of our sakes, let's just forget this ever happened and move on with our lives. This is not worth your time or effort. It's just an article
Sesshomaru75 Platinum Sparx [online] Gems: 6008
#21 Posted: 00:40:42 09/05/2016
Quote: TheToyNerd
Oh my god... You are spending way too much time on this one topic. I think for all of our sakes, let's just forget this ever happened and move on with our lives. This is not worth your time or effort. It's just an article


He tends to be like this if a subject involves either Sonic or Rosalina. It's really predictable at this point, tbh.
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Got you wrapped around my finger, babe ~ You can count on me to misbehave

#YangGang
TheToyNerd Gold Sparx Gems: 2137
#22 Posted: 00:42:49 09/05/2016
Quote: Sesshomaru75
Quote: TheToyNerd
Oh my god... You are spending way too much time on this one topic. I think for all of our sakes, let's just forget this ever happened and move on with our lives. This is not worth your time or effort. It's just an article


He tends to be like this if a subject involves either Sonic or Rosalina. It's really predictable at this point, tbh.



I can tell, sheesh! I know I'm not one to talk but I think he needs to take a break from the forums for a while. This is just getting sad, now!
Seiki Emerald Sparx Gems: 4573
#23 Posted: 00:44:14 09/05/2016
[User Posted Image]
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Once in my dreams, I rose and soared. No matter how I'm knocked around or beaten down, I will stand up restored.
LunarDistortion Ripto Gems: 3606
#24 Posted: 00:56:16 09/05/2016
That's pretty cool. Sega and Sonic kinda need the good news after the past few years of blunders. Hopefully they can get back on track with the series soon, as the post-Generations games haven't been very kindly to the Blue Blur's reputation.
Iblistech Emerald Sparx Gems: 4631
#25 Posted: 01:02:35 09/05/2016
Quote: LunarDistortion
That's pretty cool. Sega and Sonic kinda need the good news after the past few years of blunders. Hopefully they can get back on track with the series soon, as the post-Generations games haven't been very kindly to the Blue Blur's reputation.



Yeah, let's hope that they can. The 25th Anniversary is just around the corner.
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Hail to the King, baby!
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#26 Posted: 01:25:31 09/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: TheToyNerd
Oh my god... You are spending way too much time on this one topic. I think for all of our sakes, let's just forget this ever happened and move on with our lives. This is not worth your time or effort. It's just an article


Define both the time I have spent on this topic, and what too much time is, before you make this statement.

Quote:
He tends to be like this if a subject involves either Sonic or Rosalina. It's really predictable at this point, tbh.


And you tend to pretend I am like that whenever it best suits you. It's really predictable at this point, tbh.

Quote: Cynderfan507
Popular =/= good
Not dead game series =/= game series that hasn't completely gone to hell and hasn't had a good game in years.
I actually like Sonic and even I can admit this.


You must be living under a rock because the best game in the franchise just got released last April 1st! smilie

Also Lost World and All-Stars Racing Transformed were pretty good too.

Quote:
I can tell, sheesh! I know I'm not one to talk but I think he needs to take a break from the forums for a while. This is just getting sad, now!


And I could tell you're a Red Sparx even if it didn't say so next to your posts.
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sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#27 Posted: 01:44:45 09/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: Sesshomaru75
Quote: sonicbrawler182
And you tend to pretend I am like that whenever it best suits you. It's really predictable at this point, tbh.


I'm not "pretending". Whenever Sonic or Rosalina is brought up, 90% of the time you have to type a big wall of text and defend either as if you're their white knight.

It's not "pretending" if it's true, and it's predictable because it's the truth. If you can't see that, then that's your problem.



But anyone with a brain knows that's not true! smilie

I mean, this implies that a character like Rosalina would need defending. I simply clear up misinformation, because educating people makes the world a smarter place! Though I wouldn't expect a dumb-dumb to comprehend that.

And Sonic certainly doesn't need defending with all of these accolades, and especially with all of the good will SoA's PR and Social Media departments have been generating!

Better start putting your money where your mouth is, bub, because you seem to like saying you'll change your ways but it always comes back to the same song and dance with ya.


No seriously the amount of times the more stupid users have gone on about how much they'll change and make the community a better place, only to not change a thing, is honestly at comedic levels at this point. How many topics has there been about that? 20?
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"Here I come, ready or Gormotti!"
Sesshomaru75 Platinum Sparx [online] Gems: 6008
#28 Posted: 01:58:04 09/05/2016
Because talking like a condescending douche and talking down to me is totally gonna make you look any better. /sarcasm
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Got you wrapped around my finger, babe ~ You can count on me to misbehave

#YangGang
kardonis Platinum Sparx Gems: 5369
#29 Posted: 02:12:16 09/05/2016
So not only did you just try to invalidate someone's opinion just because they're a red sparx, but you do it to a returning user....

That was low, even for you...
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I used to be THE Bowser, now I'm just an awkward girl
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#30 Posted: 02:34:40 09/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: Sesshomaru75
Because talking like a condescending douche and talking down to me is totally gonna make you look any better. /sarcasm



Now you know how you sound to other people.

Quote: kardonis
So not only did you just try to invalidate someone's opinion just because they're a red sparx, but you do it to a returning user....

That was low, even for you...


If by "invalidate" you mean prove wrong, then sure.

I wasn't being a **** to ToyNerd in that comment, just making a witty comment on their incredibly flawed statement. They claimed "I could use a break from the forums". However, if anyone has been following my activity on this site for the past couple of months, they'd know I've hardly been logging on to dS, let alone posting on it. And usually when I do log on, it's because someone told me about some drama between you kids, and wants some input from me because you kids just can't handle yourselves. smilie

TheToyNerd would not have been able to realise this, because they're a Red Sparx, meaning they've only been here a week or two. Hence, them making that statement like that, is how I "know they're Red Sparx even if it didn't say so beside every post".

If TheToyNerd is a returning user with a new account and had been active directly before this new account was made, then that would mean they're REALLY going out of their way to make baseless statements.

And if you feel I'm being condescending to them, good. A lot of you here could stand to have someone treat you that way every once in while.
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Sesshomaru75 Platinum Sparx [online] Gems: 6008
#31 Posted: 02:43:57 09/05/2016
You of all people should know that two wrongs don't make a right, SB. Unless you're not as intelligent or above us as you appear to behave and/or think?
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Got you wrapped around my finger, babe ~ You can count on me to misbehave

#YangGang
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 02:46:27 09/05/2016 by Sesshomaru75
StriderSwag Gold Sparx Gems: 2769
#32 Posted: 03:28:38 09/05/2016
Quote: sonicbrawler182
And if you feel I'm being condescending to them, good. A lot of you here could stand to have someone treat you that way every once in while.


Nice hole you've dug there. Wouldn't you like out?
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 6367
#33 Posted: 03:34:15 09/05/2016 | Topic Creator
Quote: Sesshomaru75
You of all people should know that two wrongs don't make a right, SB. Unless you're not as intelligent or above us as you appear to behave and/or think?



But no philosophy is absolute.

There are indeed situations where two wrongs do make a right

Cliche psuedo-philosophical statements with no substance to them don't mean a thing to me.

Quote: StriderSwag
Quote: sonicbrawler182
And if you feel I'm being condescending to them, good. A lot of you here could stand to have someone treat you that way every once in while.


Nice hole you've dug there. Wouldn't you like out?



Is that yet another one of your cowardly threats or are you actually gonna put your money where your mouth is? Not like I have any reason to be scared of someone with an identity crisis.

In any case, I like this hole. It's comfy.
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"Here I come, ready or Gormotti!"
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 03:38:18 09/05/2016 by sonicbrawler182
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